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(Technical Thread) Mercedes-AMG W11 EQ Power+


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#101 GoldenColt

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:06

As long as the car is fast no one will care what livery they're using........Mind you, that German gp livery was horrendous last year....

As was their race.  ;)



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#102 Anja

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:10

9ffde23f139f971f23ed963662f662ea.png

 

Forever remembered among Polish fans as the first F1 car with Polish sponsorship on it, here's your useless bit of trivia for today  :D


Edited by Anja, 10 February 2020 - 13:16.


#103 kernel

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:18

Really boring livery. As always from Mercedes. 

 

 

Not any different than other teams. RBR have had essentially the same livery for the past 4 years. And Ferrari... well we know it's going to be red.



#104 Beri

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:18

As long as the car is fast no one will care what livery they're using........Mind you, that German gp livery was horrendous last year....


It was a better livery than this years.

#105 Sunnny

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:28

Merc stole the jump on Ferrari...a sign of things to come? As for the livery i'd wait to see what it looks like on track, nonetheless happy there is some colour added. 



#106 rodlamas

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:45

The good thing is that with the W10 on the 2020 livery, we will be able to visually compare both cars on Friday on the same livery.



#107 Mc_Silver

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:45

Boring livery.:D

#108 TomNokoe

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 13:49



The good thing is that with the W10 on the 2020 livery, we will be able to visually compare both cars on Friday on the same livery.

The car they used for the livery reveal was nowhere near 2019 spec

 

Edit: appears I am wrong :stoned:

 

Didn't look like it on first viewing


Edited by TomNokoe, 10 February 2020 - 14:00.


#109 noikeee

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 14:00

It's silver. I am shocked by this unexpected development.



#110 Marklar

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 15:14

My news app (tageschau, the news service of the Germn national Television) just send a push notification declaring Hamilton as this years world champion. They...know what they are doing  :p



#111 Paco

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 15:37

Blaaaaaaa. Man I hope they liven up that liverybfor the 2021 revamp. Tbere roadcars are more interesting... they’ve done great making some of nicest cars as of late after a bland era but they can’t makr their F1 livery pop and cool.

Edited by Paco, 10 February 2020 - 15:38.


#112 OO7

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 15:50

Blaaaaaaa. Man I hope they liven up that liverybfor the 2021 revamp. Tbere roadcars are more interesting... they’ve done great making some of nicest cars as of late after a bland era but they can’t makr their F1 livery pop and cool.

Their road cars are often showcased in silver.........



#113 Paco

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 16:25

Their road cars are often showcased in silver.........

Not that, there cars are more agreesive and stylish these days.. not like Mercedes of old which you thought of as an old person car. It’s a nice modern look classy but cool.

This livery is just dull and not fun, it’s alteady getting old and worse then previous ones. Not exactly in keeping with the cool factor of the brand and not interesting. Will easily be forgotten. Zero freshness or coolness. Ferrari sound like they going back to a proper red so that will be nice last years hideous red orange shade.

I get the brand silver and silver arrows and Mercedes F1 branding.. but man alive there have been times of better renders for 2020 on instagram that blow this out of the water in keeping with the brand, professionalism and marquee. I don’t mind the red, I don’t mind ice on wing end plate. I like the small trident stars and the red for Lauda but this is just plain safe plain Jane boring. Like Mercedes the brand of years gone by.

Edited by Paco, 10 February 2020 - 16:48.


#114 OO7

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 16:29

Not that, there cars are more agreesive and stylish these days.. not like Mercedes of old which you though of an old person car. It’s a nice modern look classy but cool.

This livery is just dull and not fun, it’s alteady getting old and worse then previous ones. Not exactly in keeping with the cool factor of the brand and not interesting. Will easily be forgotten. Zero freshness or coolness. Ferrari sound like they going back to a proper red so that will be nice last years hideous red orange shade.

I agree that it doesn't look as good as last years, pretty much because of the Petronas styling, however Mercedes cars are 'Silver Arrows' and should be predominantly silver in my opinion.  There's not much to play around with bar detailing.



#115 Paco

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 16:52

I agree that it doesn't look as good as last years, pretty much because of the Petronas styling, however Mercedes cars are 'Silver Arrows' and should be predominantly silver in my opinion. There's not much to play around with bar detailing.

I agree it should be predominantly silver as I mentioned but this is just plain old laziness.

From a group that has epitomized attention to detail and open internal culture it’s hard to believe everyone was like “wow this the best we could, this is a near perfection livery” as they do in every other element of race team operations. Thankfully they run the team better they they painting their masterpiece.

Tim Holmes 2018 concept is way better then this.
SeanBull and his engine cover large petronas oil drops are interesting
Even Bruce Thomson 2015 silver black is better if he now added a bit of red and like green to it. I would have linked images but not sure if allowed.

Plus it’s not about what could have but what it is not great.

Not horrible like Haas.

Safe and just whatever. Hope others come up with nice stuff as we’re not off to a great start in 2020 liveries.

Edited by Paco, 10 February 2020 - 17:06.


#116 OO7

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 17:18

Paco, you can link the images it you don't want to them in your post.  I've seen a Tim Holmes concept that looks pretty good, but it's mainly Petronas green, with some black and very little silver.


Edited by OO7, 10 February 2020 - 17:18.


#117 alframsey

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 17:28

I mean what were people expecting? Its fine, not terrible (there are many worse liveries) and pretty standard, its as if people came here expecting neon green and pink.



#118 Ben1445

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 18:21

I'm just disappointed that Ineos is now in F1.

 

Detestable organisation who push for relaxations on environmental protections. 

 

Bit of a shame.



#119 zibby43

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 19:13

Were you equally disappointed with Ferrari’s Mission Winnow tobacco sponsorship? You know, the tobacco company that paid off scientists and others for years to downplay and outright lie about the links between smoking and cancer?

Lots of these sponsors are far from perfect.

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#120 Ben1445

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 20:04

Were you equally disappointed with Ferrari’s Mission Winnow tobacco sponsorship? You know, the tobacco company that paid off scientists and others for years to downplay and outright lie about the links between smoking and cancer?

Lots of these sponsors are far from perfect.

Short answer; yes.

#121 TomNokoe

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 20:29

I mean what were people expecting? Its fine, not terrible (there are many worse liveries) and pretty standard, its as if people came here expecting neon green and pink.


Last year's livery was really good

#122 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 20:32

Not very creative is it 🤷‍♂️ A bit lazy

#123 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 21:45

Last year's livery was really good

 

Much better than this one, that's for sure. The Inios red doesn't go well with the Petronas blue at all if you ask me, and they've gone back from an overall darker car to light grey. Urgh.



#124 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 22:37

don;'t really care how it looks like as long is it's not something striking as bad combination of color and/or shape. 

 

for me it looks like every years' Mercedes. 



#125 CL16

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 22:54

It’s literally last years livery which everyone loved with enios red added on a showcar which clearly won’t have the same lines as the W11 hence why the stripe might look slightly off.

#126 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 23:13

It’s literally last years livery which everyone loved with enios red added on a showcar which clearly won’t have the same lines as the W11 hence why the stripe might look slightly off.

I wonder why many have missed that little detail... It's essentially the same with a few dabs of red on it...

#127 Paco

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 00:19

I wonder why many have missed that little detail... It's essentially the same with a few dabs of red on it...


Just as making the aero and chassis fast, it’s all in the details. Little changes can and do have significant impact. Plus, just as in fashion.. tastes evolve and what was nice last year may not be current this year... I know I wouldn’t want to wear my 90s Edwin Jeans yes it’s blue denim 32x32 but compared to very subtle changes in rise, leg slimming etc they’d be quite odd fit in 2020. But honestly, it’s just minor details that make a big differences. I personally don’t mind the red splash on top if its cohesively incorporated. They way they honour Niki is perfect, elegant and I can’t think of nicer way to do it. It’s just as a “whole” a blunder and missed opportunity. Unlike HAAS which is a failure.

Edited by Paco, 11 February 2020 - 00:25.


#128 kernel

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:29

Based on the evolutions we've seen at Ferrari and RB, I do wonder how likely Merc is to completely change aero concept for the final year of regs. I do wonder whether those rumors have got it all wrong based on a seat fitting pic.



#129 Rinehart

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:35

Based on the evolutions we've seen at Ferrari and RB, I do wonder how likely Merc is to completely change aero concept for the final year of regs. I do wonder whether those rumors have got it all wrong based on a seat fitting pic.

Absolutely no chance it will be anything other than a refinement evolution of the previous cars. Nobody revolutionises in the final year of a rules set. Not only would this be expensive, time consuming and risky, it would also throw away an obviously outstanding concept AND risk 2021 in several ways. 



#130 balage06

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:35

Based on the evolutions we've seen at Ferrari and RB, I do wonder how likely Merc is to completely change aero concept for the final year of regs. I do wonder whether those rumors have got it all wrong based on a seat fitting pic.

 

On the other hand, the development of last year's car must have stopped in the summer break for a reason. Why would they skip the testing of those intermediate versions if the new car will be a simple evolution?


Edited by balage06, 12 February 2020 - 11:43.


#131 SonGoku

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:42

I hope a lot of gains are made under the skin, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the same concept.

#132 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:52

Absolutely no chance it will be anything other than a refinement evolution of the previous cars. Nobody revolutionises in the final year of a rules set. Not only would this be expensive, time consuming and risky, it would also throw away an obviously outstanding concept AND risk 2021 in several ways.


Exactly, if they were to copy the RBR concept refined over many years they’d be behind RBR..

#133 GoldenColt

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:09

Absolutely no chance it will be anything other than a refinement evolution of the previous cars. Nobody revolutionises in the final year of a rules set. Not only would this be expensive, time consuming and risky, it would also throw away an obviously outstanding concept AND risk 2021 in several ways. 

McLaren-MP4-28-F1-2013-bigMobileWide2x-d



#134 alframsey

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:10

Like others I don't expect anything radically different, why would they? I am hoping Merc have made major up gains,in terms of power but with minimal reliability issues. I think people are reading too much into the seat fitting and the whole 'started in the summer' thing. Have there been any rumours from Merc besides up niggles?



#135 Rinehart

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:11

McLaren-MP4-28-F1-2013-bigMobileWide2x-d

 

Ok maybe I should have said "from a competitive/dominant position"! Your always going to get the desperados! 



#136 GoldenColt

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:12

Ok maybe I should have said "from a competitive/dominant position"! Your always going to get the desperados! 

McLaren had the quickest car at the end of 2012, then they revolutionized their concept to barely finish in the points in Melbourne... with one car.



#137 SonGoku

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:26

Like others I don't expect anything radically different, why would they? I am hoping Merc have made major up gains,in terms of power but with minimal reliability issues. I think people are reading too much into the seat fitting and the whole 'started in the summer' thing. Have there been any rumours from Merc besides up niggles?

 


Nothing from Merc and Italian Motorsport isn't a reliable source.

#138 w1Y

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:36

People are going to be disappointed if they expect big changes. They would have shift a lot of resource onto 2021.

this year is about whether they can make enough pu gains and aero efficiency improvements to keep them on top

#139 TomNokoe

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:39

Wolff says there's a few visual changes, so I'm ready to be surprised.



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#140 P123

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:47

McLaren had the quickest car at the end of 2012, then they revolutionized their concept to barely finish in the points in Melbourne... with one car.


Typical McLaren back then.... Fduct, those weird shaped sidepods, octopus exhaust, the mushroom suspension or whatever it was... not all bad innovations but something of an obsession which Whitmarsh championed and ultimately a distraction. No design seemed to lead on into the following year.

#141 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 13:15

People are going to be disappointed if they expect big changes. They would have shift a lot of resource onto 2021.

this year is about whether they can make enough pu gains and aero efficiency improvements to keep them on top

The chasers are usually the one's to make bigger changes than the leaders......



#142 Heyli

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 13:23

Wolff says there's a few visual changes, so I'm ready to be surprised.

a 3 wheeler!



#143 OO7

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 13:29

Based on the evolutions we've seen at Ferrari and RB, I do wonder how likely Merc is to completely change aero concept for the final year of regs. I do wonder whether those rumors have got it all wrong based on a seat fitting pic.

The seat fitting highlighted a change to the SIPS attachment on the monocoque.  Without doubt Mercedes have transitioned to elevated, side-pod entry cooling ducts.  This change should allow a greater mass flow of air past the undercut, around the side of the car and eventually to the rear floor.


Edited by OO7, 12 February 2020 - 16:04.


#144 Rinehart

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 14:01

McLaren had the quickest car at the end of 2012, then they revolutionized their concept to barely finish in the points in Melbourne... with one car.

Drifting away from the thread here. Obviously exceptions prove rules. If anything this example shows what a bad idea a new concept is.

 

I assume from your contrary suggestion you think Mercedes are going to launch a completely new philosophy. If not, what point are you making?


Edited by Rinehart, 12 February 2020 - 14:02.


#145 kernel

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 14:55

Wolff says there's a few visual changes, so I'm ready to be surprised.

 

There was a rumour that the W11 incorporates a few concepts "never seen before" in an F1 car... we'll find out in 48 hours.



#146 Paco

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 15:49

There was a rumour that the W11 incorporates a few concepts "never seen before" in an F1 car... we'll find out in 48 hours.


Hopefully obvious and not “hidden” stuff..

#147 GoldenColt

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 19:29

Drifting away from the thread here. Obviously exceptions prove rules. If anything this example shows what a bad idea a new concept is.

 

I assume from your contrary suggestion you think Mercedes are going to launch a completely new philosophy. If not, what point are you making?

My point was simply to refute your statement. I certainly don't think Mercedes will go down that path, nor would I want them to.


Edited by GoldenColt, 12 February 2020 - 19:36.


#148 zibby43

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 21:26

The seat fitting highlighted a change to the SIPS attachment on the monocoque.  Without doubt Mercedes have transitioned to elevated, side-pod entry cooling ducts.  This change should allow a greater mass flow of air past the undercut, around the side of the car and eventually to the rear floor.

 

Correct.  And just because the visual change is striking or dramatic does not mean that this is some kind of major concept change (clearing this up for other folks that seem to try to over-exaggerate the significance of the side pod shape). 

 

There are much better barometers for a concept or philosophy change - rake being one of them. 



#149 Rinehart

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:35

My point was simply to refute your statement. I certainly don't think Mercedes will go down that path, nor would I want them to.

One example amongst hundreds refutes a statement? This is why threads go off the rails. 



#150 onemoresolo

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:54

One example amongst hundreds refutes a statement? This is why threads go off the rails. 

 

It does when the statement is an absolute, yes. You could just say "fair enough" rather than take issue with somebody for providing a recent example to the contrary. That is why threads go off the rails.