159 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Jean Todt’s comments about how the F1 worker bees should be honoured to flog themselves for the glory of the sport are grimly illuminating.

 

If the sport was less consistently terrible, I’d be optimistic that the team principals would protect the wellbeing of their people by telling him to shove the new, never-ending schedule *and* his ‘let them eat cake’ attitude up his bumhole. That way people could still have a decent job they enjoyed but also a life. 
 

as it is, eh.

 

edited to add the source of the comments:

 

https://www.motorspo...m/news/id/25868

 

Speaking to international media Todt cautioned that “it will be a long process before being close to 25 races” and that it would be “speculating” to suggest the number will be reached.

However he said those working within the championship should not complain.

“I already think, including you [the media], we [at the FIA], and I include myself, for other reasons, we are so blessed to be in a world [where] we love what we do,” Todt said.

“We have the passion, we are privileged, whoever is in Formula 1 is privileged.

“When I was in other positions I was working 18-hour days six or seven days a week, because I had a passion and wanted the result.

 

[RA2]

Jean Todt’s comments about how the F1 worker bees should be honoured to flog themselves for the glory of the sport are grimly illuminating.

 

If the sport was less consistently terrible, I’d be optimistic that the team principals would protect the wellbeing of their people by telling him to shove the new, never-ending schedule *and* his ‘let them eat cake’ attitude up his bumhole. That way people could still have a decent job they enjoyed but also a life. 
 

as it is, eh.

 

25 races or even 30 is fine, there is nothing wrong

 

Regulations should call for the number of team members that are allowed to work on the car (what is it now 60?) during a weekend, so not all members have to travel to all races. The same goes for drivers too.

[SophieB]

25 races or even 30 is fine, there is nothing wrong

 

Regulations should call for the number of team members that are allowed to work on the car (what is it now 60?) during a weekend, so not all members have to travel to all races. The same goes for drivers too.

 

None of that is in place and frankly with an attitude akin to 'I suffered shorter seasons so I don't see why others shouldn't suffer much longer seasons'  at the top, I don't see much of an appetite for change.

 

Besides, none of this would help the media people who have to cover all this who we rather take for granted as it is. 

[SophieB]

(I split this off from venue chat as really it wasn't in the right thread)

[P123]

People have families.  Such a schedule requires them to be away from home for half the year.  Of course nobody forces them, but it makes F1 likely less attractive as a place to work long term.

[RA2]

I agree Joe Saward type of individuals will have a tough time, but the media houses can all have 2 sets of people who cover half the races.

 

A longer calendar with restricted number of mechanics, engineers and a cap on number of races for drivers would be great for F1. 

 

If in a season of 25 races, the drivers are restricted to a maximum of 17 the biggest beneficiary are the young drivers who get a seat at 16 events. But as you said the discussions have to go along with the increase in races.

[Peat]

It's just another thing that plays into the hands of the 'have's'. Merc have an entire 'testing and demonstration' team who they gradually swap in and out of the race team during the season, particually after Monza for the final flyaways, to prevent staff burnout. 

As for Todts' four Yorkshiremen routine...... He can go fornicate with himself.  

[taran]

It's just another thing that plays into the hands of the 'have's'. Merc have an entire 'testing and demonstration' team who they gradually swap in and out of the race team during the season, particually after Monza for the final flyaways, to prevent staff burnout. 

 

 

I am not quite clear on how you think this would work post 2020?

Any staff employed in F1 would fall under the budget cap so having more mechanics etc. wherever they are from originally would just mean other parts of their budget takes a hit IMO.

[SophieB]

I agree Joe Saward type of individuals will have a tough time, but the media houses can all have 2 sets of people who cover half the races.
 
A longer calendar with restricted number of mechanics, engineers and a cap on number of races for drivers would be great for F1. 
 
If in a season of 25 races, the drivers are restricted to a maximum of 17 the biggest beneficiary are the young drivers who get a seat at 16 events. But as you said the discussions have to go along with the increase in races.

 
I think the driver idea is interesting but I don't know how this would work without messing with the flow of a season. Also, tbh, at least the drivers are going to be living first class all the way.
 
I also sadly doubt today's media have the resources for hiring in effect two teams. And as you say, the freelance journalists have ever greater pressure heaped on them.
 
Incidentally, Jon Noble wrote an excellent piece about the strain on the F1 supporting infrastructure:
 

Jon Noble
@NobleF1
·
22h
There is a side to life on the #F1 road that isn't talked about much - but it's really important that it doesn't get ignored as the calendar gets ever bigger.

 https://t.co/OhOnVAh7wa?amp=1

 

For those new to F1, the strains that the sport puts people through quickly come to light. For every cheering team member that gets to experience their driver winning, there are a bunch of other team members further down the pitlane who are facing up to defeat.

Or worse still, there can be individuals who are shouldering the burden for being the person who cost their team a valuable result: be it through a botched pitstop, a broken part or a wrong call on the pit wall.

Add to that mix the fact that F1 is quite a macho sport, where owning up to weakness or exposing any trouble you are having is not always the easiest thing to do, especially when you are surrounded by a big bunch of men who all appear to be (on the outside at least) solid themselves.

 

 

I'm glad this is being talked about, and for what it's worth, to anyone who might be reading this who is seeing their F1 job, whether it's engineer, press officer, journalist, photographer, caterer or anyone else, get ever laden with stresses and strains and then seeing this crap from Todt in response, I think it sucks and I appreciate you.

[NixxxoN]

25 races or even 30 is fine, there is nothing wrong

Disagree. Quality over quantity please

[PayasYouRace]

I'll quote myself from the other thread because I think Marc Priestley's video is worth the watch for anyone new to the topic.

 

I think Marc Priestley's video sums it up quite well.

 

 

Todt's comment is outdated.

[RA2]

Edited by RA2, 29 January 2020 - 09:08.

[SenorSjon]

https://www.motorspo...gnored/4677547/

 

There was also a team member complaining elsewhere that people like Todt who arrive on Friday and leave on Sunday don't have to build/rebuild the paddock and can be away from home for weeks on end. And they don't have the business seats in airplanes or luxury hotels.

[PayasYouRace]

I agree Joe Saward type of individuals will have a tough time, but the media houses can all have 2 sets of people who cover half the races.

 

A longer calendar with restricted number of mechanics, engineers and a cap on number of races for drivers would be great for F1. 

 

If in a season of 25 races, the drivers are restricted to a maximum of 17 the biggest beneficiary are the young drivers who get a seat at 16 events. But as you said the discussions have to go along with the increase in races.

 

So you'd potentially end up with races where none of the top drivers compete, so what would be the attraction there? Or you'd have races where only a couple of top drivers are about and they romp to easy victories.

[SenorSjon]

 

 

We had a topic last year who had the team roster for Jordan GP since their start. They started out with 20-odd people for everything in 1991 I believe, including the factory.

[RA2]

Disagree. Quality over quantity please

 

 

O you prefer watching Russel at Williams rather than Merc? 

[RA2]

So you'd potentially end up with races where none of the top drivers compete, so what would be the attraction there? Or you'd have races where only a couple of top drivers are about and they romp to easy victories. Or maybe you'd have a situation where one driver dominates 16 races and a different driver dominates another 16 and you have a championship battle where the protagonists only race each other once. Bonus points if they did that in race one and then never again as the season progresses.

 

 

In a season with 25 races 2 drivers having to do 16 races each will face each other only once?

 

You are making an assumption that of the 9 seats available in the top 3 teams there are only 3 talented drivers? 

 

Merc - LH, VB, GR

 

Ferrari - SV, CL, FA

 

Red Bull - MV, AA, NH

 

Not good enough for the circus? 

Edited by RA2, 29 January 2020 - 09:18.

[PayasYouRace]

In a season with 25 races 2 drivers having to do 16 races each will face each other only once?

 

You are making an assumption that of the 9 seats available in the top 3 teams there are only 3 talented drivers? 

 

It's too early in the morning to do maths so I deleted my error. But the point remains. If you limit drivers to 17 races in 25, you'll end up a significant number of races where the big stars of the sport aren't there to race each other.

[RA2]

It's too early in the morning to do maths so I deleted my error. But the point remains. If you limit drivers to 17 races in 25, you'll end up a significant number of races where the big stars of the sport aren't there to race each other.

 

 

You are also in the wrong thread. Here the cars are the stars 

[huggybear]

25 races or even 30 is fine, there is nothing wrong

 

Regulations should call for the number of team members that are allowed to work on the car (what is it now 60?) during a weekend, so not all members have to travel to all races. The same goes for drivers too.

 

if you've got 25 races, that's a race season basically February to December, and then you've got to fit in testing. It would result in either teams going flat out for 11 months and fatigue causing mistakes, or budgets sky rocketing so you can have a sufficient relief crew to take over from the main team when they need a break. That's not what F1 needs right now.

[Kalmake]

Maybe FIA president should work as hard as an F1 boss instead of it being a form of retirement.

[NixxxoN]

O you prefer watching Russel at Williams rather than Merc? 

Wtf what does this have to do with what I said?

[Sterzo]

This is fairly shocking from Todt. The question I'd pose to him is: Why? What benefits do you, as FIA president, see in increasing the races and therefore team workload? How does it improve the sport? How does it fit with your cost reduction priority?

[PayasYouRace]

In a season with 25 races 2 drivers having to do 16 races each will face each other only once?

 

You are making an assumption that of the 9 seats available in the top 3 teams there are only 3 talented drivers? 

 

Merc - LH, VB, GR

 

Ferrari - SV, CL, FA

 

Red Bull - MV, AA, NH

 

Not good enough for the circus? 

 

Now I get that you're going for what is essentially dividing the season into thirds, and each team has a different combination of two of three drivers in each third.

 

 

Though I'm sure the teams would want to jumble things up. Perhaps leave the last race for their two best placed drivers after 24 races? But I still think the fans as a whole lose out by having drivers on the sidelines too much. It also means the bigger teams will be sucking up even more talent and forcing the lower teams to use more paydrivers.

 

You are also in the wrong thread. Here the cars are the stars 

 

I don't think that's right, apart from Ferrari. F1 has always thrived on its superstar drivers. Elminate each from a third of the season, and you're getting into problems. Best to just limit the season to about 17 races and then nobody misses out.

[Sterzo]

If in a season of 25 races, the drivers are restricted to a maximum of 17 the biggest beneficiary are the young drivers who get a seat at 16 events...

I vote for Max Verstappen to miss the Dutch Grand Prix. That will go down well.

[SophieB]

I really am not sure it's the drivers who are struggling. Obviously this is just a data point of one but Hamilton said he'd happily race every weekend. 

He also said at the same time that he was aware how awful that would be for his team etc.

[RA2]

 

 

 

 

End of team orders

 

End of FA blocking RK, LH blocking DR, SV blocking everyone as their team mate

 

Tantrum in forum when driver decides randomly not to race the weekend coz it is raining

[RA2]

 

 

I don't think that's right, apart from Ferrari. F1 has always thrived on its superstar drivers. Elminate each from a third of the season, and you're getting into problems. Best to just limit the season to about 17 races and then nobody misses out.

 

 

You are confusing teams to cars. F1 is same as LMP1

[Pimpwerx]

Todt never worked a 25 race season, and now has a cushy job where he doesn't have to do as much work as he did in the past. I want 25 races, but I don't want the people working to have to suffer. It's not like NASCAR where all the races are on the same continent. The travel has to suck for people with families.

[pdac]

People have families.  Such a schedule requires them to be away from home for half the year.  Of course nobody forces them, but it makes F1 likely less attractive as a place to work long term.

 

It's down to the teams. If they wanted to they could share the load amongst different staff members. It's also down to the individuals. If you don't like how your employer is treating you, find a different employer. If staff started leaving (or, at least, no new staff joining), then teams would change their practices. I suppose the governing body could impose regulations, but if the teams were to change themselves, then the governing body would not need to.

[pdac]

Todt never worked a 25 race season, and now has a cushy job where he doesn't have to do as much work as he did in the past. I want 25 races, but I don't want the people working to have to suffer. It's not like NASCAR where all the races are on the same continent. The travel has to suck for people with families.

 

Then get a different job. There's plenty of people who have to work just as hard, if not harder, and are rewarded far less for their efforts. Some of them have no choice.

Edited by pdac, 29 January 2020 - 09:56.

[PayasYouRace]

Then get a different job. There's plenty of people who have to work just as hard, if not harder, and are rewarded far less for their efforts. Some of them have no choice.

 

As I've said before, I want F1 to be the best in the business, not the best singles in the business.

[Clatter]

I agree Joe Saward type of individuals will have a tough time, but the media houses can all have 2 sets of people who cover half the races.

A longer calendar with restricted number of mechanics, engineers and a cap on number of races for drivers would be great for F1.

If in a season of 25 races, the drivers are restricted to a maximum of 17 the biggest beneficiary are the young drivers who get a seat at 16 events. But as you said the discussions have to go along with the increase in races.

So the fans that paid to attend a GP expecting to see the top drivers miss out. That's a great incentive to buy a ticket.

[Peat]

I am not quite clear on how you think this would work post 2020?

Any staff employed in F1 would fall under the budget cap so having more mechanics etc. wherever they are from originally would just mean other parts of their budget takes a hit IMO.

 

I've watched this circus long enough to know that there will be loopholes and the WILL be exploited. 

[RA2]

So the fans that paid to attend a GP expecting to see the top drivers miss out. That's a great incentive to buy a ticket.

F1 promises only 16 cars, nothing about drivers

Who cares anyway about races in Saudi, Abu Dabhi, Bahrain, Baku, Sochi etc.

[TomNokoe]

Maybe teams can start taking a leaf out of Jurgen Klopp's book and start sending the reserves to certain races ... !

[CoolBreeze]

Is it me, or is he really becoming really stupid?

[JavierDeVivre]

Todt's comments were idiotic. He has the luxury of being able to turn up late in the event and leave almost as soon as it is over, if not earlier. He isn't the one spending the majority of the year away from friends and family. Saying its only 21 weekends a year rather misses the point, a "weekend" starts before the weekend for a lot of personnel. It's 

Those saying that people should get another job are rather missing the point, the people may have signed up for a lot of travel and time away from their loved ones but that doesn't mean they have to be happy about an increase in this.

This is a prime example of a decision made by people that lack the experience which would allow them to be aware of the outcomes of their decisions.

 

[Risil]

Then get a different job. There's plenty of people who have to work just as hard, if not harder, and are rewarded far less for their efforts. Some of them have no choice.

 

This is what bosses trying to force worse conditions on their employees have said throughout history.

[FLB]

I can't post the link, but you should read what Kelly McNish (Allan McNish's wife) had to say about it on her Twitter account. Several other people from the sport (including Joe Saward) also replied quite negatively to Todt's comment.

 

Allan McNish is not directly involved in F1 at this time, but he's often asked to speak at events promoted by the FIA. He's an insider. If somebody from the Inside of the sport is willing to say publicly that they strongly disagree with Todt... I can't imagine what they're saying *privately*.

[SenorSjon]

Then get a different job. There's plenty of people who have to work just as hard, if not harder, and are rewarded far less for their efforts. Some of them have no choice.

 

If you signed up for 18 races and we end up with 25 in a few years, that is not exactly what you signed up for. Richer teams will double up on personnel and tools to rotate them, but lower teams don't have the money or resources. 

Edited by SenorSjon, 29 January 2020 - 13:03.

[Ross Stonefeld]

My problem is more that I struggle to remain interested with 20ish races, 25 won't make me watch more...

[Paco]

It just demonstrates how mourn of touch this man is now. It’s idiotic to have more then 20 races frankly. It takes away from fans desires for the next race, it’s hard on the employees and hard on budgets needing lug all that around the world! It’s not as if the whole runs one continent. These guys go around the globe.

What a fool Jean has become. Both in direction of f1 and fia controlled series and personnel his views. Liberty isn’t great but Jean's even worse.

Edited by Paco, 29 January 2020 - 13:09.

[SonGoku]

Didn't know it was possible but Jean Todt is the most disappointing FIA president in F1 history.

[JHSingo]

Back when I was studying journalism at university, my goal was always to become an F1 journalist in future. But now, looking at how bloated the calendar has become, I'm rather glad I didn't pursue that path. I certainly don't envy the amount of traveling that everyone in the sport has to do, and I can sympathise with their situation.

 

Simply sticking your head in the sand and saying "well, it's people's dream to work in F1!" misses the point entirely, and I would have expected better from Todt than that. We live in a time where there's more focus on people's mental health, and surely the life as an F1 mechanic, journalist, or whatever else, isn't just one big yearly jolly traveling the world.

 

As others have noted, the currently schedule probably detracts as many people from working in the sport as it encourages.

 

I suspect that as the calendar continues to grow, more people currently working in the sport will walk away. And then, in a few years, when some team complains that they're struggling to find enough staff to travel to races, Todt will probably reflect on his comments and realise he should have been a bit more sympathetic to people's causes.

[SenorSjon]

F1 journalists could be good airline reviewers.

[Boing 2]

There's no grass roots demand for more races, it's coming from the top down not the bottom up and it's purely to squeeze more money out of TV contracts. Bearing in mind the sports alreadly turning over a billion dollars a year and the budget cap for the teams will end their calls for more of the kitty, Liberty should have no need to push this hard for more races. The teams wil get burnt out, staff will be miserable, the fans don't particularly want it and it's all to make some millionaire a few more quid on top of the mountain of cash they will never spend anyway.

 

As for Todt, he was earning a multi million pound salary, I don't think he was married at the time and his son would have been in his late teens and early 20's for most of his Ferrari time so not needing much attention. He didn't need to attend all races and when and he did attend I assume he flew first class or private jet and was only there for the end of the race week. That's nowhere near the same as the grind for a truckie or mechanic.

[Huffer]

Jesus Christ....this line from Todt in particular is so telling; When I was in other positions I was working 18-hour days six or seven days a week, because I had a passion and wanted the result.

 

I've heard that line so many times from abusive employers -  the video games industry is full of them. Low pay, required overtime for months on end because of piss poor planning, an almost complete lack of personal down time. All the while the multi-million pound owners and producers would be telling us all how privileged we were, how we should be so thankful for the opportunity they had granted us, as if we should be paying them to allow us to work 18-hour days.

 

I had the passion. I wanted the results, and god dammit, I sure as hell got those results. But what I got in return was excuses about there "not being enough money for a bonus" (the same day one of the owners turned up in his brand new Ferrari) and threats of being fired when I was so overworked than I ignored a chest infection due to wanting those results so badly which turned into pneumonia. Twice. And both times with different employers, who tried to force me to discharge myself from the hospital to return to work. 

I was passionate. I was driving for the results. I was also a fool - as is anybody who is taken in by an idiot such as Todt who "worked" 18 hour days on a multi-million dollar salary, while the majority of F1 staff are lucky if they earn even 0.7% of what he was paid during his Ferrari days.

[pdac]

This is what bosses trying to force worse conditions on their employees have said throughout history.

 

That's what unions are for.

[pdac]

If you signed up for 18 races and we end up with 25 in a few years, that is not exactly what you signed up for. Richer teams will double up on personnel and tools to rotate them, but lower teams don't have the money or resources. 

 

Who signed up to 18 races? They signed up for a job. If their employer tries to extend their hours, then they just refuse. If they are forced out then they take their employer to court.