4229 replies to this topic

[Branislav]

I did, but you just ignored it.  Now you post a piece of total guesswork from F1planet who are a dubious source at best.  Forget it, it's not worth continuing.

 

Better to show you this my man. It's from motorsport.com Italian Edition

 

 

 

Motorsport.com obtained the sound level measurements made in qualifying at Silverstone: the power measurements showed surprising data. The full-boost Mercedes power unit was the only one to increase horsepower compared to last year. Honda pays a gap of 28hp, Renault of 37hp, while Ferrari is last with a gap of 42hp.

 

https://it.motorspor...spetta/4848120/

 

I love you 

[shure]

 

 

 

SO

 

 

https://www.gpblog.c...h-the-w11-.html

 

 

do you really think everybody would be talking about how woeful Ferrari's PU is if they were only 5HP down on Renault's?  I find that hard to reconcile tbh.

[Branislav]

do you really think everybody would be talking about how woeful Ferrari's PU is if they were only 5HP down on Renault's?  I find that hard to reconcile tbh.

 

Translated also from that italian link

 

 

 

One fact is certain: 42 horsepower can be worth at most four tenths of a second on the lap, but not the second and passes seen in qualifying at Silverstone, a sign that the troubles of the SF1000 arise from the power unit, but involve the whole car ...

[shure]

Translated also from that italian link

all the Ferrari cars have dropped back noticeably.  And we know that the PU is very, very poor this year.  Although the chassis can of course have influence so can gear ratios etc.  But all of the evidence points to the Ferrari PU being very bad and you must surely know that if the difference between them and Renault was only 5HP then we'd have been hearing much more of that, too.  It's not realistic IMO to imagine that the two PUs are comparable and to say so is to ignore everything else that's gone on this year.

 

I don't know whether the Honda is better than the Renault, or vice versa.  But I do know that article, written just after the season started, has it badly wrong if it puts the Renault and Ferrari almost equal.  So I'd take that with a huge grain of salt

[Paco]

If that graph is even reasonably accurate, Renault going to be slow next year 😒

Mecedes new intake worth 20+
Ferrari new fast system will gain that much or more
Honda have been bullish on their all new PU so it’s gotta be worth 20-30

Alpine could easily have the least ponies of the bunch and Ferrari should be on RB heels.

I know, I know, you disagree

Edited by Paco, 06 January 2021 - 14:19.

[eREr]

Better to show you this my man. It's from motorsport.com Italian Edition

 

 

https://it.motorspor...spetta/4848120/

 

I love you 

 

Nice job linking the same s**t from motorsport.com and then from motorsport.it    Good job mate, you won!  What comes next? motorsport.jp?  Probably honda will win there.   

 

See what binotto said about the gap: https://www.autoweek...-and-its-a-lot/

 

Your and motorsport's numbers are simply wrong. AMuS usually has reliable info.

 

Please reserve your nonsense comments for RB/Max threads. Those are not needed here (and in the coming Alpine thread).

[RA2]

What is the point of engine power without knowing the energy recovery; 

 

Honda with 994 could harvest 6MJ while Merc could do only 4MJ

[Branislav]

I did, but you just ignored it.  Now you post a piece of total guesswork from F1planet who are a dubious source at best.  Forget it, it's not worth continuing.

 

 

Nice job linking the same s**t from motorsport.com and then from motorsport.it    Good job mate, you won!  What comes next? motorsport.jp?  Probably honda will win there. 

 

 

 

BRG thinks it's from f1planet 

[Branislav]

 

 

See what binotto said about the gap: https://www.autoweek...-and-its-a-lot/

 

Your and motorsport's numbers are simply wrong. AMuS usually has reliable info.

 

Please reserve your nonsense comments for RB/Max threads. Those are not needed here (and in the coming Alpine thread).

 

So here is Binotto

 

 

 

"Can we reach Mercedes? Perhaps that is asking too much since it means gaining between 40 and 50 horsepower," Binotto said.

 

Ferrari lacks between 40-50 hp

 

From motorsport.com is 42 hp

 

I don't see a problem and yet we're talking about Honda v Renault

 

I already said Renault was stronger than Ferrari. Ferrari isn't topic here

[ARTGP]

 

 

 

 

I know, I know, you disagree

 

 

You are quite naive to think some journos can estimate the engine power. I know you didn't spend much time doing a sanity check on those numbers since that would not fit your narrative.  When Ferrari are listed within 10 hp of Renault and Honda, it shows that all of the numbers lack credibility.  

 

In addition, Renault already exceeded 1000hp in qualifying last year as reported by a credible source. 

Edited by ARTGP, 06 January 2021 - 15:23.

[shure]

So here is Binotto

 

 

Ferrari lacks between 40-50 hp

 

From motorsport.com is 42 hp

 

I don't see a problem and yet we're talking about Honda v Renault

 

I already said Renault was stronger than Ferrari. Ferrari isn't topic here

It's part of the topic because you are using supporting evidence which is clearly inaccurate.  You can't accept the figures representing the Honda-Renault gap while at the same time ignoring the elephant in the room that is the Renault-Ferrari difference.  It calls into question the rest of the assumptions in the article, which means it can't be relied on

[eREr]

So here is Binotto

 

 

Ferrari lacks between 40-50 hp

 

From motorsport.com is 42 hp

 

I don't see a problem and yet we're talking about Honda v Renault

 

I already said Renault was stronger than Ferrari. Ferrari isn't topic here

 

It is topic here, because it shows that those numbers are false. Maybe the Merc and Ferrari numbers are more or less right. But the Renault and Honda numbers are not.

 

According to AMuS (using the 1022hp for Merc from motorsport.com):

1. Merc 1022hp

2. Renault 997hp

3. Honda 992hp

4. Ferrrari 972hp

 

This looks much more realistic. It seems they estimated Renault power too low, the others seem to be okayish. +5hp is absolutely unrealistic compared to Ferrari. If you believe this, then this is your problem.

[ARTGP]

I think furthermore, it's not just about the peak number, but also the performance across the RPM band and the efficiency of the ERS.

 

Red Bull already said they thought the Renault was better on Saturday.  And the Renaults launch off the grid noticeably better as well.

Edited by ARTGP, 06 January 2021 - 15:32.

[Branislav]

It's part of the topic because you are using supporting evidence which is clearly inaccurate.  You can't accept the figures representing the Honda-Renault gap while at the same time ignoring the elephant in the room that is the Renault-Ferrari difference.  It calls into question the rest of the assumptions in the article, which means it can't be relied on

So you're now questioning Binotto's quote. Nice

[shure]

So you're now questioning Binotto's quote. Nice

That doesn't answer anything in my post.  Are you afraid to backup your assertions?

 

Besides which, I haven't said anything about Binotto's comments.  That's just a deflection from the central point being made.  

 

Just so there's no doubt, I'm questioning, in a Renault thread, the part of the article which claims that the Renault PU is only 5HP up from the Ferrari one (while being much further adrift form the Honda).  If the Ferrari is indeed some 50HP off the Mercedes (and I have no idea how true that is), then I'd suggest the Renault must be closer to halfway between the two than it would be right next to the Ferrari.  Again, no idea whether it's better than the Honda but the evidence from the season suggests they're pretty close and that both are much better than the Ferrari.  Which means that the article you provided cannot be accurate, so choosing to believe only one part of it while ignoring the rest is evidence of confirmation bias.  In other words, it's not really evidence at all

[Branislav]

It is topic here, because it shows that those numbers are false. Maybe the Merc and Ferrari numbers are more or less right. But the Renault and Honda numbers are not.

 

According to AMuS (using the 1022hp for Merc from motorsport.com):

1. Merc 1022hp

2. Renault 997hp

3. Honda 992hp

4. Ferrrari 972hp

 

This looks much more realistic. It seems they estimated Renault power too low, the others seem to be okayish. +5hp is absolutely unrealistic compared to Ferrari. If you believe this, then this is your problem.

 

This is what I found in your link

 

 

 

“There is just few peaks in power in qualifying where we achieve 1000 HP,” said Renault’s head of engine development Remi Taffin.

“In a race we use more than 950 hp, at certain stages we use 960 or 970 hp for overtaking purposes,” Taffin said.

 

Even if is Renault little ahead of Honda that's not case in a race. And race my friend is where points are earned

[Viryfan]

if the renault engine was on par with the ferrari, it wouldn't have been able to be p4 and p5 in spa, p2 and p4 at monza which are power tracks

 

Renault engine did all its podium in power tracks minus nurburgring.

Edited by Viryfan, 06 January 2021 - 15:51.

[vee10]

I want what Branislav is smoking 

[eREr]

This is what I found in your link

 

 

Even if is Renault little ahead of Honda that's not case in a race. And race my friend is where points are earned

 

We are talking about peak qualifying power outputs. Noone uses qualifying modes on Sundays, the power output is much less there. It seems this surprises you.

 

Anyway we are almost there. So Renault PU is more powerful than Honda on Saturdays according to you. Thanks, it's fine for me. Case closed.

 

You can check this also: https://www.racecar-...on-competition/

 

Merc measured that Ferrari has (had) at least 25hp deficit to the others. So motorsport.com numbers are very false and you have no valid point in this case.

[Branislav]

I want what Branislav is smoking 

 

I'm fine

 

 

And this was with a weak second driver

[Branislav]

We are talking about peak qualifying power outputs. Noone uses qualifying modes on Sundays, the power output is much less there. It seems this surprises you.

 

Anyway we are almost there. So Renault PU is more powerful than Honda on Saturdays according to you. Thanks, it's fine for me. Case closed.

 

You can check this also: https://www.racecar-...on-competition/

 

Merc measured that Ferrari has (had) at least 25hp deficit to the others. So motorsport.com numbers are very false and you have no valid point in this case.

 

So are Binotto lying then? You linked him first

[eREr]

So are Binotto lying then? You linked him first

 

Can't you read? Binotto compared the gap to Merc, while Merc stated that Ferrari has ~25hp deficit to the others. Hope you understand the difference.

[Branislav]

Can't you read? Binotto compared the gap to Merc, while Merc stated that Ferrari has ~25hp deficit to the others. Hope you understand the difference.

 Okay I now read correctly. I have no problem with Ferrari deficit to Honda/Renault. Same to me whatever you want

 

But when we come to Honda v Renault, you didn't prove me anything, and on my side is scoreboard

[eREr]

I'm fine

 

 

 

And this was with a weak second driver

 

After loosing the motorsport.com backing, now you come up with an even bigger non-sense. Hope you know that an F1 car is not equal to the PU, there are other parts in an F1 car too which defines the ultimate performance of a F1 car. Using your table I can say Renault has the most HP as they finished ahead of other cars easily which were powered by other PU manufacturers. Sounds logical?

 

 

It would be better for everyone if you would skip this (and Alpine) thread and post similar very smart posts in RB/Honda/Max threads only. Probably you will get some likes in those threads with similar comments. 

Edited by eREr, 06 January 2021 - 16:23.

[eREr]

 Okay I now read correctly. I have no problem with Ferrari deficit to Honda/Renault. Same to me whatever you want

 

But when we come to Honda v Renault, you didn't prove me anything, and on my side is scoreboard

 

AMuS numbers, hmm?? Probably you should read that linked article again, but this time correctly. I'm finished this, good luck.

[Branislav]

AMuS numbers, hmm?? Probably you should read that linked article again, but this time correctly. I'm finished this, good luck.

 

If you want I'm ready to admit that Renault has better engine (LOL)

 

But they are ****ing **** at chassis then

 

So what's the point having best engine if you have crap chassis

 

F1 puzzle is chassis + engine and Red Bull-Honda eats yellow Renault for breakfast

 

Good night

[MichaelPM]

Was Sainz chasing down Gasly at Monza a tyre advantage? Genuine question.

[Flasheart]

Stop quoting him...all it does is give him oxygen.
Looks like I’ll be spending less time here this year than I thought, as I can only see it getting worse, sadly.

[BRG]

 

BRG thinks it's from f1planet 

 

For a bloke who reckons he looks at 'the whole picture', you aren't very good at reading what is written on it.  It says " Follow F1planet.com " on it.

 

I am out of here - no point arguing with a troll.

[Branislav]

For a bloke who reckons he looks at 'the whole picture', you aren't very good at reading what is written on it.  It says " Follow F1planet.com " on it.

 

I am out of here - no point arguing with a troll.

Also is written motorsport.com