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Scuderia Ferrari SF1000 (Technical Thread)


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#3051 ARTGP

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Posted 27 January 2021 - 23:35

I've not seen people underrating Leclerc imo. Do you mean that in the context of Sainz? 


Edited by ARTGP, 27 January 2021 - 23:36.


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#3052 vlado

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 04:54

He has totally recovered since days and tested negative.

 

:up:  :clap:



#3053 TheAviator

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 08:11

I've not seen people underrating Leclerc imo. Do you mean that in the context of Sainz?

Yes, in context of Sainz. Most people are predicting Norris to stand no chance against Ric, but many are predicting very close fight between Leclerc and Sainz.

#3054 BRG

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 12:12

...many are predicting very close fight between Leclerc and Sainz.

That might be because in 2020, Sainz looked like a racing driver while Vettel looked like an Uber driver.



#3055 TheAviator

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 12:23

That might be because in 2020, Sainz looked like a racing driver while Vettel looked like an Uber driver.

Yes, but Sainz raced against Norris (and they were closest team mates on the grid) while Vettel raced against Leclerc in worse car then Mclaren is, in tight midfield.

So that is why this is weird take to me...Norris and Sainz were neck and neck, but Ric is still expected to beat him easily while Leclerc might struggle to put much between them.

#3056 RedRabbit

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 12:36

Yes, but Sainz raced against Norris (and they were closest team mates on the grid) while Vettel raced against Leclerc in worse car then Mclaren is, in tight midfield.

So that is why this is weird take to me...Norris and Sainz were neck and neck, but Ric is still expected to beat him easily while Leclerc might struggle to put much between them.

 

That's kind of an odd thing to say - McLaren were in the tightest part of the midfield, up against Racing Point, Renualt and often Alpha Tauri. They took 3rd in the WCC at the very last race. Sainz faced a difficult start to the season, dropping around 40 points through no fault of his own. He had quite a strong season and should have definitely finished with a clearer margin over Norris.

I don't think Sainz will actually beat LeClerc, who has given Vettel a convincing smack around the ears for 2 seasons, but it should be a much closer contest on Sundays. If Ferrari bring a half decent car for 2021, I can see them reclaiming 2nd in the WCC again. The combination of LeClerc and Sainz is probably the strongest on the grid, followed closely by Verstappen and Perez.

Norris will be in for a bit of an awakening this year, and so too will Ocon. Ricciardo and Alonso are both ruthlessly opportunistic competitors with the speed and race craft to back it up.



#3057 NixxxoN

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 13:31

Yes, but Sainz raced against Norris (and they were closest team mates on the grid) while Vettel raced against Leclerc in worse car then Mclaren is, in tight midfield.

So that is why this is weird take to me...Norris and Sainz were neck and neck, but Ric is still expected to beat him easily while Leclerc might struggle to put much between them.

Leclerc spanked Vettel in a similar way he was spaked in the past by Ricciardo - I think Vettel is the kind of driver to be just slow/disappointing when the car is not perfect to his likings or has not perfect handling, and that happened in 2014 and 2020. I think Vettel with the right car is better than what those two years showed.

I expect Norris v Ricciardo to be a similar story of last year's Sainz v Norris, in fact I'd rate Sainz in a similar level to Ric, and I also rate leclerc highly so it's reasonable to say that Leclerc v Sainz will be kinda close.



#3058 Enzoluis

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 14:03

I am feeling weirdly optimistic. People are expecting Ferrari to be safely tucked in midfield behind Aston Martin/Mclaren and even Renault but I think they might be in for surprise. Also kinda interesting to see how many people underrate Leclerc...a man that put numbers on Vettel that might not be repeated (as far as destroying multiple WC). You would think this guy finished few points ahead of his team mate, and not put biggest point difference on entire grid (against multiple WDC at that)

 

It is the chance for Binotto to show his value. I hope the were keeping a low profile during 2020, as there was no chance to change anything, and focus  on 2021. If they really are able to build a good angine (and they should) and fix the rear suspension they will be ahead of the midfield. 



#3059 Quickshifter

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 15:25

There are far too many "ifs" for Ferrari to tick off if they want to be competitive in 2021. The car was not efficient, produced more drag for the downforce it produced, the rear suspension was a huge issue with changing ride height during the course of the race, the engine was anaemic and the car had huge variation from track to track. Now IF Ferrari manage to fix MOST of these issues and their midfield rivals do not do a good enough job then they may be able to scrape third. If they don't then they will finish around where they did last season. Mercedes are bringing 25hp and have reduced cooling requirements for their PU. Mclaren, Renault and Aston Martin are not short of cash either. 2022 will be a reset for everyone but as things stand Ferrari have an uphill battle on their hands to finish third in the championship this season.

Edited by Quickshifter, 28 January 2021 - 15:25.


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#3060 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 19:11

I expect Norris v Ricciardo to be a similar story of last year's Sainz v Norris, in fact I'd rate Sainz in a similar level to Ric, and I also rate leclerc highly so it's reasonable to say that Leclerc v Sainz will be kinda close.

I feel this is going to age quite horribly.

#3061 NixxxoN

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 19:18

I feel this is going to age quite horribly.

Why?
It's Norris 3rd year, not a rookie anymore, he can only go upwards and I expect him to step up his game next season and not be far off Ric



#3062 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 19:24

Why?
It's Norris 3rd year, not a rookie anymore, he can only go upwards and I expect him to step up his game next season and not be far off Ric

I don't agree. That would obviously be ideal because it then lifts Sainz' level naturally if Norris runs Ricciardo close. I just don't believe Norris has that in him. The ability to go next level.

#3063 NixxxoN

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 19:55

I don't agree. That would obviously be ideal because it then lifts Sainz' level naturally if Norris runs Ricciardo close. I just don't believe Norris has that in him. The ability to go next level.

Well Norris has a very remarkable pre-F1 record and competing with the likes of Russell and Albon, older than him



#3064 ARTGP

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 22:38

There are far too many "ifs" for Ferrari to tick off if they want to be competitive in 2021. The car was not efficient, produced more drag for the downforce it produced, the rear suspension was a huge issue with changing ride height during the course of the race, the engine was anaemic and the car had huge variation from track to track. Now IF Ferrari manage to fix MOST of these issues and their midfield rivals do not do a good enough job then they may be able to scrape third. If they don't then they will finish around where they did last season. Mercedes are bringing 25hp and have reduced cooling requirements for their PU. Mclaren, Renault and Aston Martin are not short of cash either. 2022 will be a reset for everyone but as things stand Ferrari have an uphill battle on their hands to finish third in the championship this season.

 

 

Ferrari's 2020 issues are low hanging fruit, just like Mclaren's issues in '18 were low hanging fruit for 2019-2020 as attested to by Pat Fry during his time there.  Ferrari don't have the same battle that Mclaren do. Ferrari was already P2-P3 team, they took a wrong turn in the development and hobbled by the engine, and I expect them to revert back to atleast 3rd best team this year.   If Ferrari had a Renault or Mercedes engine last season, they would have finished P3 in the WCC  in spite of the Chassis issues.


Edited by ARTGP, 28 January 2021 - 22:42.


#3065 ferrarista

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 10:13

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#3066 Goron3

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 10:58

A more powerful, lighter PU for 2022? I wonder how this might tie in to the engine freeze?

 

There's been a suggestion if the freeze goes ahead, higher fuel flows might be given to weaker PU's to ensure that they are all within 20 HP of each other. Coming up with a much lighter PU, which will also provide an aero benefit, could be very beneficial given that the FIA may ensure a degree of equalisation.



#3067 Branislav

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 18:58

Did I read Binotto decided to take a risk? Oh dear :lol:



#3068 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 22:43

Ferrari's 2020 issues are low hanging fruit, just like Mclaren's issues in '18 were low hanging fruit for 2019-2020 as attested to by Pat Fry during his time there. Ferrari don't have the same battle that Mclaren do. Ferrari was already P2-P3 team, they took a wrong turn in the development and hobbled by the engine, and I expect them to revert back to atleast 3rd best team this year. If Ferrari had a Renault or Mercedes engine last season, they would have finished P3 in the WCC in spite of the Chassis issues.

That sounds like mclaren in the early Honda years, I don’t quite buy it - they did have a lot of downforce achieved with a lot of drag.

That aside, they weren’t running a Mercedes engine and they still won’t be last year. Given the double bump from adopting the Mercedes engine, and the engine improvements Mercedes will inevitably deliver.. I’m not sure Ferrari will make any engine gains relative to mclaren at all.

Edited by LightningMcQueen, 08 February 2021 - 22:54.


#3069 ARTGP

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 23:41

That sounds like mclaren in the early Honda years, I don’t quite buy it - they did have a lot of downforce achieved with a lot of drag.

That aside, they weren’t running a Mercedes engine and they still won’t be last year. Given the double bump from adopting the Mercedes engine, and the engine improvements Mercedes will inevitably deliver.. I’m not sure Ferrari will make any engine gains relative to mclaren at all.

 

Mclaren's issue in the early honda years was the Honda....who had never built a competitive engine in the hybrid era until 2019. And Mclaren had no control over that.


Edited by ARTGP, 08 February 2021 - 23:43.


#3070 ARTGP

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 23:41

A more powerful, lighter PU for 2022? I wonder how this might tie in to the engine freeze?

 

There's been a suggestion if the freeze goes ahead, higher fuel flows might be given to weaker PU's to ensure that they are all within 20 HP of each other. Coming up with a much lighter PU, which will also provide an aero benefit, could be very beneficial given that the FIA may ensure a degree of equalisation.

 

Still not desireable. Higher fuel flow means they have to carry more fuel?



#3071 ARTGP

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 00:04

If Ferrari are indeed considering an all new engine concept, then I struggle to see how or why they would agree on an engine freeze anytime soon.  I


Edited by ARTGP, 10 February 2021 - 00:04.


#3072 warp

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 03:42

If Ferrari are indeed considering an all new engine concept, then I struggle to see how or why they would agree on an engine freeze anytime soon.  I

 

Either a bold or stupid move indeed.

You don't want your engine frozen unless you know you have an advantage you can maintain and they don't know that yet. 



#3073 Quickshifter

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 05:08

Nobody is going to decide their engine plans based on what Redbull want. Redbull wanted the freeze at the end of 2021 while the earliest a freeze may happen is at the start if 2022 season so that Renault and Ferrari could introduce their PU. Ferrari have to do something and not sit there twiddling their thumbs cos Redbull want an immediate freeze.

If Ferrari are moving to a new engine layout for 2022 it is more because of packaging benefits. The performance depends little on layout and more on combustion and ERS efficiency.

However one thing Ferrari need to be careful is that a split turbo with a LONG shaft in between will produce more of a challenge on the reliability side. So hopefully they will have taken that in to account. Honda struggled massively in 2017 with reliability issues when they moved to a split turbo.

#3074 RA2

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 05:33

 Honda struggled massively in 2017 with reliability issues when they moved to a split turbo.

 

Honda had a split turbo from the beginning 



#3075 Quickshifter

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 05:51

Honda had a split turbo from the beginning

Split turbo with a short shaft in 2015 and 2016. The compressor was within the cylinder banks in the Vee.

In 2017 they put Turbine and compressor on either side of ICE with a long shaft connecting them like Mercedes. I should have been more precise. The 2017 season was a nightmare for Honda reliability wise.

Edited by Quickshifter, 10 February 2021 - 05:56.


#3076 Enzoluis

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 13:17

Still not desireable. Higher fuel flow means they have to carry more fuel?

 

Probably, but may not be significant, I understand they will allow to traspass the limit of fuel. That is more fuel consumed at the peak but noy all the time.



#3077 FortiFord

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 15:08

That sounds like mclaren in the early Honda years, I don’t quite buy it - they did have a lot of downforce achieved with a lot of drag.

That aside, they weren’t running a Mercedes engine and they still won’t be last year. Given the double bump from adopting the Mercedes engine, and the engine improvements Mercedes will inevitably deliver.. I’m not sure Ferrari will make any engine gains relative to mclaren at all.

 

I don't think it's as simple as "Mclaren put the Mercedes PU in the back of their car, and they go faster". They will have to make changes to their chassis in order to accommodate the PU. They already saw the difficulties of integrating a new PU in 2018. It will be even more difficult this year given the limited pre-season testing. 



#3078 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 08:32

Mclaren's issue in the early honda years was the Honda....who had never built a competitive engine in the hybrid era until 2019. And Mclaren had no control over that.


Mclaren couldn’t see the flaws in their chassis due to the engine deficit.

It’s repeatedly pointed out that last season Ferrari had a lot of downforce but it was draggy as hell.

#3079 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 08:34

I don't think it's as simple as "Mclaren put the Mercedes PU in the back of their car, and they go faster". They will have to make changes to their chassis in order to accommodate the PU. They already saw the difficulties of integrating a new PU in 2018. It will be even more difficult this year given the limited pre-season testing.


Agreed, talking about the engine specifically. Not making assumptions about the overall faster package.

Despite earlier posts it is likely Ferrari will return to the top 3 . I just don’t think it’s cut and dried

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#3080 shure

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 09:09

I don't think it's as simple as "Mclaren put the Mercedes PU in the back of their car, and they go faster". They will have to make changes to their chassis in order to accommodate the PU. They already saw the difficulties of integrating a new PU in 2018. It will be even more difficult this year given the limited pre-season testing. 

Agree that people are underestimating the amount of change necessary to accommodate a different PU.  However an additional factor was that the Renault change was a last minute job and so they had to shoehorn something in with little planning and prep time.  This time around they should be much better prepared.



#3081 TheAviator

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 19:31

I want to believe with engine freeze they have some plan, a trump card, but with this team who knows.

#3082 ARTGP

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 20:31

I want to believe with engine freeze they have some plan, a trump card, but with this team who knows.

 

To be honest, I fear if Ferrari accepted the agreement thinking they have a trump card, and it turns out Mercedes have 10 trump cards...



#3083 Enzoluis

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 13:55

To be honest, I fear if Ferrari accepted the agreement thinking they have a trump card, and it turns out Mercedes have 10 trump cards...

 

If you do not believe can beat your oponent you should give up the sport.



#3084 Astandahl

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 15:49

https://twitter.com/...252838354571266

 

Time to open the SF 21 thread.



#3085 Astandahl

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 16:27

ctjgw12xk2h61.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

 

New (old) airbox.



#3086 ARTGP

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 17:24

If you do not believe can beat your oponent you should give up the sport.

 

Believe, but they need to have a backup plan in place. And why help Red Bull anyway? Why has Ferrari decided to be so kind to Red Bull.


Edited by ARTGP, 12 February 2021 - 17:26.


#3087 nemanja

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 18:05

ctjgw12xk2h61.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

 

New (old) airbox.

It is not the same.

 

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#3088 Astandahl

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 18:12

Old because they used a similar solution in 2017.



#3089 Enzoluis

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 18:47

Believe, but they need to have a backup plan in place. And why help Red Bull anyway? Why has Ferrari decided to be so kind to Red Bull.

 

As they are not more an appendix of FCA, may be they do not have all the resources for continous development. There are many reasons that we do not know is good for Ferrari too freeze the engines. For sure is bad for the F1.



#3090 nemanja

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 00:23

https://old.reddit.c...rt_of_ferraris/

 

"They suffered from Ferrari's cheat last year because they had Ferrari motors and could use less gas, so I think Alfa would be pretty good this year when they get their full power."

"So Ferrari's getting out a new engine, right?"

"I dunno if it's a new engine but they're allowed to use it to its full power. Having to use less gas was their punishment for their cheating last year"



#3091 midgrid

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Posted 10 March 2021 - 14:51

I've moved some posts on the launch of the SF21 to the new thread - please can we henceforth use this for discussion of the 2021 car?