1732 replies to this topic

[Gary Davies]

In a recent thread, Goldenboy said: "I really think McLaren had the best looking livery last year."

 

I think I agree.

 

The colours complement each other nicely and there is quite obviously some professional and highly competent graphic design in there. Can't wait to see the livery for this year!   

 

 

 

 

[pitlanepalpatine]

So is this going to be the 2020 team thread? 

 

I'm not too sure about the blue, I look at that and think IBM for some reason. 

[RA2]

 there is quite obviously some professional and highly competent graphic design in there

 

 

Must be these guys

 

[bogi]

In b4 someone complains that orange and blue aren't complementary colors.

 

https://www.diyphoto...popular-movies/

 

https://petapixel.co...ular-hollywood/

Edited by bogi, 10 February 2020 - 11:30.

[TheGoldenStoffel]

Looks fast!

 

 

edit: Oops, it seems I was a bit too errrr fast.

Edited by TheGoldenStoffel, 10 February 2020 - 11:29.

[TennisUK]

In b4 someone complains that orange and blue aren't complementary colors.

 

https://www.diyphoto...popular-movies/

 

https://petapixel.co...ular-hollywood/

The authors of those articles don't really understand what complimentary colours are.

 

The complimentary of the orange Mclaren use is not teal, it's the richer blue they are using. The complimentary of Teal is much closer to a rich pink.

 

Quick way to work out what the complimentary colour is is to just invert it in Photoshop. Obviously lighting effects make this a bit confused but you can see here they picked the blue because it was the exact complimentary colour:

 

Edited by TennisUK, 10 February 2020 - 12:48.

[Oblivion]

I don't care about the livery anymore. I've seen them all. What bothers me at the most - the competitiveness. I want to see regular podium fights this year.

[Beri]

I don't care about the livery anymore. I've seen them all. What bothers me at the most - the competitiveness. I want to see regular podium fights this year.

High expectations. I'd skip the regular and would be happy with about 4 podium finishes if I were a Woking fan. The three big teams won't leave a lot of crumbs for the rest.
At Red Bull everything they have done the past three years have led to this season.
Mercedes is likely to be at least as fast as last year.
Only Ferrari is the big unknown.
It will be hard for McLaren, yet not undoable. Next season tho, that's when I have a lot of faith in Wokings abilities combined with that splendid Mercedes engine.

Edited by Beri, 10 February 2020 - 13:48.

[SparkPlug86]

I'm expecting a couple of podiums tbh... not on merit, as I think we'll be 5th at best on raw pace. But we'll hopefully be able to grab that low hanging fruit when it happens... 

[Beri]

I think that's a realistic take. And one to be proud of. Considering as to how deep the fall was during the Honda era.

[Ali623]

Realistically, one podium would be an achievement. They won't be able to get them on merit, that would require a massive jump in race pace at least. There were two opportunities last year and they got very lucky to get one in Brazil. Previous two year before that, there were two opportunities for midfield teams (Baku 17&18).

 

As long as they pull away from the midfield, there should be at least one race where a podium is possible, but to suggest they'll fight for multiple is just unrealistic. 

[MirNyet]

Realistically, one podium would be an achievement. They won't be able to get them on merit, that would require a massive jump in race pace at least. There were two opportunities last year and they got very lucky to get one in Brazil. Previous two year before that, there were two opportunities for midfield teams (Baku 17&18).

 

As long as they pull away from the midfield, there should be at least one race where a podium is possible, but to suggest they'll fight for multiple is just unrealistic. 

 

Getting on the podium on merit is also dependent on the other teams ahead of McLaren actually doing a good job as well.  While no one expects Mercedes to be anything other than awesome, the leaks from Ferrari don't sound too good, and Red Bull have a history of being slow out of the box, relatively speaking.  If either team have a problematic start to the year, how hard to you imagine they're going to push to address those problems considering the size of the rule change for next year?

While we should all have our expectations in check, this could be a strange year all round because of the pressure to get next year right for all of the teams.  A few podiums might not be as out of reach as they normally would be for McLaren.

[CPR]

I think it's pretty hard to define what a "podium on merit" would be when it'll likely be rare that we start better than the 4th row.

 

One simple option would be: quali 5th/6th, get a good start and get up to 3rd and keep it to the end. It would require us having enough race pace to stay ahead whatever the cars behind do. If you end the first lap 3rd and keep it to the end without any cars around you having trouble, then I think that would qualify as "on merit".

 

I think we saw a few "near misses" in this regard last year - where we got a good start at least. But we didn't have the race pace to stay ahead. If we make a net gain of 0.5s on the top 3 then I think we could maybe get one or two such podiums. Would require us to ride our luck on the circuits where overtaking isn't so easy.

 

One difficulty is that if the top 3 are generally starting on the Medium tyre then they're likely to have better race pace than us, except at the few races where it turns out that starting on the Soft is the way to go. Assuming we're starting on Soft then it significantly increases the chance of getting a good start (see last year) but keeping it would be another matter. Overall, I think it would be better for us to be able to quali on the Medium in Q3 more often than not.

[SparkPlug86]

Overall, I think it would be better for us to be able to quali on the Medium in Q3 more often than not.

 

That would be an achievement in my book and a sign of improvement relative to the top 3.

[Marklar]

I think it's pretty hard to define what a "podium on merit" would be when it'll likely be rare that we start better than the 4th row.

 

One simple option would be: quali 5th/6th, get a good start and get up to 3rd and keep it to the end. It would require us having enough race pace to stay ahead whatever the cars behind do. If you end the first lap 3rd and keep it to the end without any cars around you having trouble, then I think that would qualify as "on merit".

 

I think we saw a few "near misses" in this regard last year - where we got a good start at least. But we didn't have the race pace to stay ahead. If we make a net gain of 0.5s on the top 3 then I think we could maybe get one or two such podiums. Would require us to ride our luck on the circuits where overtaking isn't so easy.

 

One difficulty is that if the top 3 are generally starting on the Medium tyre then they're likely to have better race pace than us, except at the few races where it turns out that starting on the Soft is the way to go. Assuming we're starting on Soft then it significantly increases the chance of getting a good start (see last year) but keeping it would be another matter. Overall, I think it would be better for us to be able to quali on the Medium in Q3 more often than not.

The scenario you are describing here is only really realistic in Monaco, anywhere else and you will get by a McLaren in a top 3 car, regardless on which tyres they start.

Monaco is also one of the few tracks (maybe even the only one) where it's maybe possible to upset the top 3 on performance I guess. Albon could be generally vulnerable. Then you need Ferrari or Mercedes to build a lemon on specific tracks (i.e. the Mercedes was properly bad in Monaco 2017 for example) and you are in contention.

As for getting a podium: I think the chances are there but not extremely high (if I had to throw a number, I would say 30 %), multiple podiums even less. You need 4 of 6 top cars to practically implode in the same race. This happened in the last 3 years 4 times (two of them in Baku) and even then that doesnt guarantee you anything because it's possible that somebody else seizes the chance instead.

[mclarensmps]

If McLaren does end up sorting out the slow corner deficiency, then maybe something might be "Merited" in Monaco or Hungary (Less likely to be Hungary though).

 

HUGE IF, though. 

[EvilPhil II]

So, appears the car might be purple.

[KWSN - DSM]

I will withhold guesses and expectations until testing, then I will over- and under react based on likes and dislikes. I do not dislike the livery, does not really do anything for me, which is a shame since I felt under the Ron regime they year in and year out had the best livery by far.

 

[CPR]

The scenario you are describing here is only really realistic in Monaco, anywhere else and you will get by a McLaren in a top 3 car, regardless on which tyres they start.

Monaco is also one of the few tracks (maybe even the only one) where it's maybe possible to upset the top 3 on performance I guess. Albon could be generally vulnerable. Then you need Ferrari or Mercedes to build a lemon on specific tracks (i.e. the Mercedes was properly bad in Monaco 2017 for example) and you are in contention.

As for getting a podium: I think the chances are there but not extremely high (if I had to throw a number, I would say 30 %), multiple podiums even less. You need 4 of 6 top cars to practically implode in the same race. This happened in the last 3 years 4 times (two of them in Baku) and even then that doesnt guarantee you anything because it's possible that somebody else seizes the chance instead.

 

That's why I said I think this method won't work unless they make a net gain of about 0.5s on the top 3 and even then it would only get a podium or two. A net gain of that much would be at the high end of expectations too - pretty much a best case scenario.

 

With that much of a gain, they'd probably be able to keep one of the top 3 cars behind them for most/all of the race at about half the circuits. Eg, Melbourne, Barcelona, Zandvoort, Monaco, maybe Silverstone, Hungary, Singapore, Sochi, Suzuka, Mexico, maybe Abu Dhabi.

[kumo7]

Monaco and Hungaroring or Spa Suzuka France ?
Perhaps Monaco Hungaroring has more chance this year?

[cbbcisace]

So, appears the car might be purple.

Pardon

[Owen]

So, appears the car might be purple.

I'm not sure about this suggestion. I'll be honest.

[Muz Bee]

Seriously? No, the Indycar livery has retained papaya so it’s inconceivable that the F1 livery will not, even if there are significant differences in execution,

[MirNyet]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Indycar livery isn't almost identical the the F1 car. 

[revmeister]

Hopefully McLaren will trouble RedBull this year. RedBull aren't guaranteed a great start out of the box based on past history. Who knows what surprises Honda might bring, good or bad.

 

If McLaren can nail their slow corner problems with the chassis they have a chance be right up there. There was a big chunk of time lost year because of the problem, not to mention set up compromises required to work around it.

 

Exit year with Renault could be a factor though.

 

Looking for Carlos to have a big year as well.

[SparkPlug86]

Lando should hopefully come on song this year... 

[thegobetween]

Coca Cola no longer listed on partners list on YT livestream.

[jensfan09]

Coca Cola no longer listed on partners list on YT livestream.

Still on the website though.

[Rinehart]

Coca Cola no longer listed on partners list on YT livestream.

Listed as a supplier on mclaren.com countdown to launch. Wouldn't worry...

I think the main difference is that McLaren will ditch the geometric shapes (the way the orange and blue blended last year) and will introduce the barcode lines - per the way they treated the car number on the Indycar and what is all over mclaren.com/racing. 

 

More importantly, incase anyone has forgotten, BAT is now McLaren's "principle partner" it has been confirmed that the deal includes:

 

 

• Significantly increased branding positions on the Formula 1 car – including highly visible new sidepod branding, inside halo and front wing branding positions

 

So its confirmed that the sidepod will no longer be blank orange but have a large logo on it. Zak has also said that BAT branding will be quite impactful... (but the car will remain orange). 

Edited by Rinehart, 11 February 2020 - 10:04.

[Rinehart]

I think it's pretty hard to define what a "podium on merit" would be when it'll likely be rare that we start better than the 4th row.

 

Think were getting ahead of ourselves here because we need to know not only McLaren's level of competitiveness but that of everyone else as well. 

The immediate winter questions are does one of the top teams drop a ball or do they move further up the road, do the midfield teams gain ground en mass or does one make a particularly significant jump forwards and is that McLaren or another team?

All of these scenarios would fundamentally affect the meritocracy of a McLaren podium. 

Call me an old cynic but this will be reasonably clear by lunchtime on the first day of testing! Certainly news regarding surprises in speed or absolute clangers travels quickly... 

There are certainly theories for a number of teams to make a significant move in either direction, 

It'll all probably stay relatively the same but there is a chance it won't. 

Not long to wait for answers now! 

[Owen]

Team wear goes online (for pre-order) at 12.35pm today. If you're a McLaren+ member, check your email and you'll get a preview of it all.

#SpoilerAlert : no purple. 

 

https://www.mclarenstore.com/

Edited by Owen, 11 February 2020 - 11:54.

[Oblivion]

Did not spot a slightest difference...

[CPR]

Think were getting ahead of ourselves here because we need to know not only McLaren's level of competitiveness but that of everyone else as well. 

The immediate winter questions are does one of the top teams drop a ball or do they move further up the road, do the midfield teams gain ground en mass or does one make a particularly significant jump forwards and is that McLaren or another team?

All of these scenarios would fundamentally affect the meritocracy of a McLaren podium. 

Call me an old cynic but this will be reasonably clear by lunchtime on the first day of testing! Certainly news regarding surprises in speed or absolute clangers travels quickly... 

There are certainly theories for a number of teams to make a significant move in either direction, 

It'll all probably stay relatively the same but there is a chance it won't. 

Not long to wait for answers now! 

 

Life would be boring if we couldn't speculate. But yes, it could all go horribly wrong. I did mention in a separate reply on this topic that this scenario I sketched out was a best case scenario. I've also said there's a reasonable chance we could go backwards (in terms of the constructors championship) several times.

 

I don't think the first day of winter testing will tell us all that much. Even the whole of winter testing might not tell us much... though if we're very consistently ahead of the whole midfield in both single lap and race sims then that would be a good sign.

[Owen]

Did not spot a slightest difference...

More dark grey. And lines. No triangles. Is a summary.

[Oblivion]

More dark grey. And lines. No triangles. Is a summary.

 

Thank you. That's why they keeping to invite you to the car launches - really good spotter

[Owen]

[Mc_Silver]

I like this year's collection more than last year's. Papaya, white, blue and dark grey colors complement each other beautifully.

[pup]

Still on the website though.

Last season it seemed like some last minute negotiating went on to keep them, as they disappeared from the site and I think the car for a bit.  

 

And you have to think that this year with two new major sponsors and increased sponsorship from BAT that there's going to be some negotiating and jockeying for the better spots on the car.  

[Paco]

On merit is easy, do as RB were able to with a weak Renault and compete and not be gifted a 1-3 due someone’s misfortune. I don’t see any reason why they can design a car like RB did to be extremely good at track were Mercedes arent and go for the glory a couples out. Better then just always ploughing around in 6-8th.

Considering the engines have all gotten closer, moreso the reason they should be as good a RB were with Renault or at least way closer then have been. All this talking down IMO only hurts motivation when you’re striving for mediocre performance.

How in the world is that $@(&(@ MCLAREN? They have a great driver lineup, a decent engine that’s won gps on merit and closed the gap more since.. talent out the ting yang in manufacturing and design.

Already the team saying they can’t to a podium just means, they set their target in design to low... they proved last year that made a mens to their earlier problems now go for it!!!

If they are more then 3-4ths off the 2nd best team this year then that’s an utter failure.

If they don’t get a top 3 once in qualifying then they really need to strive for better all over the internal structure and team. If they hold the course to where they were last year, that has to be considered disappointing.

Edited by Paco, 11 February 2020 - 17:20.

[thegobetween]

Still on the website though.

Gone now

[cbbcisace]

This happened with Coca-Cola last season then reappeared at Australia...

[goldenboy]

On merit is easy, do as RB were able to with a weak Renault and compete and not be gifted a 1-3 due someone’s misfortune. I don’t see any reason why they can design a car like RB did to be extremely good at track were Mercedes arent and go for the glory a couples out. Better then just always ploughing around in 6-8th.

Considering the engines have all gotten closer, moreso the reason they should be as good a RB were with Renault or at least way closer then have been. All this talking down IMO only hurts motivation when you’re striving for mediocre performance.

How in the world is that $@(&(@ MCLAREN? They have a great driver lineup, a decent engine that’s won gps on merit and closed the gap more since.. talent out the ting yang in manufacturing and design.

Already the team saying they can’t to a podium just means, they set their target in design to low... they proved last year that made a mens to their earlier problems now go for it!!!

If they are more then 3-4ths off the 2nd best team this year then that’s an utter failure.

If they don’t get a top 3 once in qualifying then they really need to strive for better all over the internal structure and team. If they hold the course to where they were last year, that has to be considered disappointing.

I must have missed this. The team said they probably will not podium this year?

[bogi]

Insane prices on Mclaren Store. 

 

80 euros for hoodie, too much for me.

[Kimiraikkonen]

Here we go!!!

[Rinehart]

Gone now

Yup. Does anyone know if the order of the listing of suppliers on McLaren's website is basically in order of "ranking" if you will? BAT is first on the list. Seems like it could be, to me. 

[BertoC]

On merit is easy, do as RB were able to with a weak Renault and compete and not be gifted a 1-3 due someone’s misfortune. I don’t see any reason why they can design a car like RB did to be extremely good at track were Mercedes arent and go for the glory a couples out. Better then just always ploughing around in 6-8th.

Considering the engines have all gotten closer, moreso the reason they should be as good a RB were with Renault or at least way closer then have been. All this talking down IMO only hurts motivation when you’re striving for mediocre performance.

How in the world is that $@(&(@ MCLAREN? They have a great driver lineup, a decent engine that’s won gps on merit and closed the gap more since.. talent out the ting yang in manufacturing and design.

Already the team saying they can’t to a podium just means, they set their target in design to low... they proved last year that made a mens to their earlier problems now go for it!!!

If they are more then 3-4ths off the 2nd best team this year then that’s an utter failure.

If they don’t get a top 3 once in qualifying then they really need to strive for better all over the internal structure and team. If they hold the course to where they were last year, that has to be considered disappointing.

The simple and easy answer is Mclaren doesn't have the same technical talent has Red Bull nor the money to have so many talented people working on it.

[Nathan]

Insane prices on Mclaren Store. 

 

80 euros for hoodie, too much for me.

I mentioned this in the Williams thread, if teams charged normal prices (eg half) they would likely make much more money and provide more public branding.  Other sports leagues have come to see how much of the revenue pie can come from merch, meanwhile F1 wonders around in the dark.

[bogi]

I mentioned this in the Williams thread, if teams charged normal prices (eg half) they would likely make much more money and provide more public branding.  Other sports leagues have come to see how much of the revenue pie can come from merch, meanwhile F1 wonders around in the dark.

 

Nike branded FC Barcelona hoodie cost less...

[CPR]

24h to go until the MCL35 launch. I wonder what we'll see. I suspect that for some parts (eg FW) they'll initially present the car with last year's, so avoid revealing their hand.

 

Wonder if we'll see them use a filming day before testing starts...

[Mc_Silver]

Red Bull and Ferrari inspired by McLaren designs and adapted them to their car. I'm sure we will see some clever designs around bargeboard area. They have some work to do in terms of packaging the internals to tighten body work as well.