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(Technical Thread) Red Bull Racing RB16


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#151 Sunnny

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 20:36

Now that the tyres are not an issue and the reports that Honda have made greata gains over the winter. There is nothing stopping RB starting strong. Something they have not done in 6 years. This year is the year we are going to see a good fight. 



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#152 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 20:59

I am very tempted to put some money on Verstappen clinching the title this year. Don't really see any reason why RBR couldn't take it to the Merc this year. Not after seeing Gasly outdrag Lewis up the hill at Interlagos last year.


Because bigger turbo works better at altitude.. will be interesting to see though

#153 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 22:10

I thought that was the Renault with the bigger turbo.



#154 R Soul

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 22:26

Looks developed



#155 Gambelli

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 22:41

I think the problem with this car is, looking at the pics, there's going to be some pretty severe aero stall at 185-193kph when at a yaw angle greater than 3 degrees, this is very bad news....

 

Haha, jokes!  I love the car, it think it looks fantastic, amazingly well packaged, I'm very hopeful they can start strong and take it to Mercedes!



#156 JeePee

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 08:36

Some more footage: https://www.youtube....h?v=iYe1FjxN3-g



#157 OO7

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:38

Courtesy of base_1000 over at f1technical.net:

 

epyvdcno5yk.gif

 

The improvement to the side-pod undercut is very pronounced.  You've got to applaud Red Bull for that. :up:



#158 Stephane

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:58

One year experience with Honda can do that to the car.  :up:



#159 Augurk

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:41

They even increased the car's resolution!  :smoking:



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#160 kumo7

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:51

Something says that it is not enough,... Monno what, but Merc absolutely looks impressive and its engine is much more reliable than RB16.

Meaning, RB16 must constantly outpace Merc to be in front, should this be the case, wait and see.

For Max it is better if he move to Merc maybe?



#161 GAZF1nut

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:53

If ferrari can’t compete with merc, I very much hope the RB16 in the hands of Max takes it



#162 OO7

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:56

Something says that it is not enough,... Monno what, but Merc absolutely looks impressive and its engine is much more reliable than RB16.

Meaning, RB16 must constantly outpace Merc to be in front, should this be the case, wait and see.

For Max it is better if he move to Merc maybe?

The Red Bull looks very impressive to me.



#163 kumo7

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:09

The Red Bull looks very impressive to me.

 

I am not saying that it is not impressive. 
was here earlier and expressed my admiration to it.

 

What I am saying is that if it can be the constant Merc beater, that allow Max to have the crown at the end of this season.



#164 Carrinthe

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:43

Not the highest resolution but a nice comparison between the RB16 and the W11. 

full.png



#165 Carrinthe

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 13:11

Courtesy of base_1000 over at f1technical.net:

 

epyvdcno5yk.gif

 

The improvement to the side-pod undercut is very pronounced.  You've got to applaud Red Bull for that. :up:

Also the engine-cover is more tightly packaged.  :clap:  



#166 OO7

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 13:21

Out of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes, so far I'm most impressed with Red Bull's developments.  Just looking at visual developments and not attempting to judge performance, Ferrari have clearly improved their car and its packaging, however looking at the side-pods for instance, I have visions of last years RB15 and even then I'm not sure if Ferrari's side-pod volume and over-cut is an improvement on the RB15.

 

Mercedes have introduced a highly aggressive, very eye fetching side-pod concept on their car, as well as some detailed rear suspension/brake duct improvements (More photos are required to determine how well packaged the coke-bottle region is).  As fetching as the new side-pods are however, the rest of the car looks basically like the W10, so externally at least it does leave you wanting for more (this could change during testing with new parts being brought in).

 

Red Bull has made considerable modification with the RB16 over the 2019 car.  A new nose which is visually very different, re-profiling of the side-pod front end increasing the size of the undercut.  Bargeboard updates, changes to the side-pod over-cut concept, re-profiling the engine cover, intricate rear suspension/brake ducts.........

 

Nothing mentioned above is an indication of pace or lack thereof, however, in my eyes, the changes Red Bull have made to their total package make it visually the most impressive of the three so far.



#167 Run

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 13:54

Courtesy of base_1000 over at f1technical.net:

epyvdcno5yk.gif

The improvement to the side-pod undercut is very pronounced. You've got to applaud Red Bull for that. :up:


The Rb16 is more right than the 15...hard to see the real differencies.

#168 Danyy

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 14:39

I prefer the full shot
x84apcvow4l.gif

#169 Ivanhoe

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 14:41

RB15 looks so much bulkier, that clip is like breath in (RB15), breath out (RB16)


Edited by Ivanhoe, 14 February 2020 - 14:48.


#170 Danyy

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 14:54

The new nose is my favourite part, it’s like the best of both worlds AND the bigger Honda logo!

Edited by Danyy, 14 February 2020 - 15:14.


#171 JeePee

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 15:23

First time since long I am more impressed with the RB than the Merc. Usually the Merc blowed the RB out of the water when it came to finishing touches at launch, but the RB16 looks well thought about every inch of the car. So many little details everywhere, and the undercut of that sidepod is seriously insane. Hope Honda put as much work in it as Red Bull.

 

rb16-debut-ver-1.jpg



#172 Danyy

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 15:28

First Marko, then Horner and Max have all said good things but I like that Honda have stayed quite, they are just humble like that.

Edited by Danyy, 14 February 2020 - 15:29.


#173 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 15:53

Is there a bulge from the front legs to the behind of the bull on the engine cover? That white line of reflection is quite odd.



#174 Ali623

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 16:01

I prefer the full shot
x84apcvow4l.gif

 

I know **** all about aerodynamics but it looks like a night and day difference between the two, RB16 just seems more trimmed and refined in every aspect.



#175 A3

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 16:07

Is there a bulge from the front legs to the behind of the bull on the engine cover? That white line of reflection is quite odd.

 

It's just 2 parts of the engine cover, the line is where they come together. The white reflection is probably masking tape.

 

MO9HeWZ.png


Edited by A3, 14 February 2020 - 16:08.


#176 Danyy

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 16:19

It’s only the second year in the partnership and that rear end has been worked hard, bravo sparky and co!  



#177 Heyli

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 16:22

It looks impressively different. Obviously no way to say how that will relate to performance, but it´s clear that they´re making an effort! 



#178 Amz964

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 16:38

This car is seriously impressive in terms of details that undercut on the sidepods is insane. Last year's car was already very tight and slim however this car makes that car look fat in comparison. Serious kudos to the Red Bull designers whether it's fast on track it's yet to be seen.

Edited by Amz964, 14 February 2020 - 16:39.


#179 Carrinthe

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 17:24

I'm really impressed with the RB16, I keep seeing and reading new detail that differ compared with the RB15. I especially like the small front section. I've got a really good feeling about comming season.

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#180 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 23:35

Tost -

"Honda, our friends in Japan, in Sakura, made big progress during the winter months from the performance side as well as from the reliability side."

#181 Sparky68

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 00:34

For once I am as excited as most of you to see it, not been at work for 6 weeks, a lot of changes to the original concept. We must have found something :)



#182 lio007

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 06:24

For once I am as excited as most of you to see it, not been at work for 6 weeks, a lot of changes to the original concept. We must have found something :)

Great to have you back!
Wow ... 6 weeks at this point of time is quite a bit! 😯
Hope everything is OK!

#183 renzmann

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:25

RB16 clearly has lots more downforce than RB15. Look at all that air making the diffusor work. I'd be surprised if the car weren't a huge step in the right direction.

 

The best thing about the new car is that it screams Honda, though. Really going for a high downforce concept is nothing short of a commitment to Honda: This car would be slow is the PU weren't top of the shelf. Apparently, RBR expect this car to be fast enough on the straits.



#184 Mc_Silver

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 11:28

Red Bull's only realistic target for this season is to finish ahead of Ferrari. It will be another Mercedes walkover unfortunately.

#185 Requiem84

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 13:17

Red Bull's only realistic target for this season is to finish ahead of Ferrari. It will be another Mercedes walkover unfortunately.


Why do you think this?

#186 Mc_Silver

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 13:31

Why do you think this?


You don't need to be expert to think that. Mercedes completely mastered this set of regulations and they have amazing resources and drivers who are consistently improving and always staying one step ahead of everyone else when it matters. I can't see anyone changing that without Mercedes messing smth with their car design. They have even put some serious effort to improve their already well established sidepod design and power unit.

#187 Marklar

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 17:32

I think it would be a good first step to establish yourself ahead of Ferrari first. Every year Red Bull is hyped during the launches as the biggest Mercedes threat just to then not be it. Since 2015 Ferrari had pretty much every year the better package, even in 2016 where imo Red Bull only finished ahead due to better driver and operational performances.

Of course you can always say it's the engine and now all is fine on that venue, but we've been there before. Honda (as others) have underdelivered before, so it might just happen again, same for Red Bull regardless how nice it looks with everyone's CFD eyes, who knows.

Might be that they really get everything together and are quicker or as quick as Mercedes, not ruling that out, it's entirely possible, but if I had to define a realistic prediction it would be putting Ferrari behind and be at least in striking distance (<2 tenths) to Merc in case they underperform.

Edited by Marklar, 16 February 2020 - 17:35.


#188 Danyy

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 18:04



#189 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 18:06

A slight relative improvement from RB vs Mercedes and Ferrari, even just for that initial part of the season they tended to be slow on the uptake, could change the shape of the season.
Imagine Hamilton again being surprised a bit by Bottas 4.0 or whatever we're at with him. Max could be taking points from Hamilton early on. Before the tradition development race.
A few tenths of pure pace, something Honda might be able to provide all on its own without the RB side out-engineering Mercedes, would lower Max's average grid position by a lot. Improve overtaking (for Max) by a lot. Rather than splitting/beating the Ferraris, often splitting the Mercs. Not a slam dunk season, but more purchase on a great outcome.
That same little progress in combination with getting to grips with F1 a bit, might make Albon a frequent sighting whenever a red car comes into the picture. That would add a whole dimension to the races for me. 6 versus 5 battling cars. Say the enjoyment is a square of contenders 5²=25, 6²=36. Please don't make it a weekly Albon and Sainz show...


Edited by ElectricBoogie, 16 February 2020 - 20:02.


#190 Ivanhoe

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 18:25

New Honda PU ran over 5000 km on the dyno without problems according to Marko.



#191 lio007

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 19:40

New Honda PU ran over 5000 km on the dyno without problems according to Marko.

That's more or less the required distance for 7 races and to be able to be within the 3 PU's over the season.

#192 ExEd

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 19:48

Red Bull's only realistic target for this season is to finish ahead of Ferrari. It will be another Mercedes walkover unfortunately.

 

Realistic target should be challenging for WDC (if not WCC as well). 

Its been a while now since they are in this semi-competitive state.

Its about time we see what Max can do within a championship campaign/season, but first he needs the right tools that will allow him to give it a go.


Edited by ExEd, 16 February 2020 - 19:49.


#193 Baddoer

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 19:58

The bodywork development of RB16 is insane, especially of the rear. They are really going for it.



#194 Ali623

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 20:27

Realistic target should be challenging for WDC (if not WCC as well). 

Its been a while now since they are in this semi-competitive state.

Its about time we see what Max can do within a championship campaign/season, but first he needs the right tools that will allow him to give it a go.

 

Beating Mercedes in the hybrid era is not a realistic target, they're leagues ahead of everyone



#195 Ivanhoe

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 20:39

Of course they can be beaten, what a terrible mindset.


Edited by Ivanhoe, 16 February 2020 - 20:39.


#196 Requiem84

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 21:15

You don't need to be expert to think that. Mercedes completely mastered this set of regulations and they have amazing resources and drivers who are consistently improving and always staying one step ahead of everyone else when it matters. I can't see anyone changing that without Mercedes messing smth with their car design. They have even put some serious effort to improve their already well established sidepod design and power unit.


You base your ‘certainty’ on the past and historic results.

I thought you had some insider knowledge about the ‘20 cars :-). Now I’m less worried, as you are just making an unsubstatiated prediction.

Honda is on a very upward curve. RB has been improving since Austria.. new car looks detailed. So it looks pretty good.

#197 Marklar

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 21:30

Beating Mercedes in the hybrid era is not a realistic target, they're leagues ahead of everyone

It's not the most realistic/likely target, but it's also not unrealistic. Ferrari had the tools to do it twice. And Red Bull is probably better in the areas where Ferrari failed in those years. The problem is just getting the whole package together at once. Maybe Red Bull can do it, maybe they cant, time will tell.
 

Realistic target should be challenging for WDC (if not WCC as well). 
Its been a while now since they are in this semi-competitive state.
Its about time we see what Max can do within a championship campaign/season, but first he needs the right tools that will allow him to give it a go.

I think WCC is rather unrealistic, unless they build a car that is clearly the best (unlikely) or Albon steps up big time (maybe).


Edited by Marklar, 16 February 2020 - 21:34.


#198 JeePee

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:18

The last 4 races of 2019, it was 50/50 between RB and Mercedes. Rules have hardly changed. Tyres are exactly the same.

 

I don't see why Red Bull would not be able to challenge Mercedes. The car doesn't even have to be quicker. Same pace is enough to have a go at it.



#199 A3

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 09:03

https://www.motorspo...s-rb16/4686671/



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#200 Marklar

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 09:13

The last 4 races of 2019, it was 50/50 between RB and Mercedes. Rules have hardly changed. Tyres are exactly the same.

I don't see why Red Bull would not be able to challenge Mercedes. The car doesn't even have to be quicker. Same pace is enough to have a go at it.

Here is the thing though: the ones where Red Bull were better were high altitude races where Merc always looks rather bad. Abu Dhabi for instance wasnt close at all.

I dont disagree with you btw, just that I dont think that they were 50/50 at the end of 2019. In qualifying *maybe*.