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Mercedes AMG 2020 team thread.


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#1 milestone 11

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 22:26

I wasn't aware tha Lewis had won the Laureas sportsman of the year award. Good on him, he deserves every accolade that he receives.


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#2 Blackmamba

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 01:29

I wonder which Lewis Hamilton will turn up this year. I want him in his 2018 form producing moments like qualifying in Singapore or the masterclass that was Monza. I hope he is in imperious form as he chases Schumacher’s records and rag dolls them into his win column.

#3 Marklar

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 08:27

I honestly dont see a difference between the 2018 and 2019 Hamilton (just like I dont see one between the 2017 and 2019 Bottas) except that 2019 Hamilton did a few mistakes more. The whole talk about lost quali edge is a simple case of people being inept to appreciate great laps when the car is unable to get pole position.

How you will perceive him will probably largely depend on others.

#4 IceSpeed

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 12:59

I agree his performances were similar but you never got the wow factor because they were not necessarily pole laps. Monza is one I can remember where he split the ferraris and Russia I think.

He also had the Germany error which was just a “Benny hill” race for merc in general!

I think Bottas drove a bit better and that could be because of more time with the car or switch of performance engineers or just maturing within the team. For me though Monza showed some weakness though as he couldn’t attack the Ferrari’s like Lewis did - wasn’t able to get close enough to make a move as an eg.

Let’s see how this season goes...

#5 SonGoku

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 13:41

2019 Hamilton was all about consistency, he was remarkable in that sense, not too many highs but also not too many lows, we will see how it goes. He has done a lot to improve during the winter.

#6 jjcale

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 13:58

I wasnt sure where to put this ....

 

I notice that Mariott is no longer on the car ... which is a little sad as they used to sponsor F1 coverage in the Evening Standard in the UK - which is the only paper I read as its free on public transport.

 

I also heard on missed Apex podcast last night that whilst Daimler is not pulling out they have instead told the team that it will need to stand on its own two feet financially going forward. And that the Ineos deal - as well as the Force India deal - is part of this new push for greater revenue. 

 

I only hope that the push goes well enough for Merc to be able to afford to take Crowdstrike's sticker off the car. 



#7 SonGoku

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 14:39

Mariott is now on the shoulder pads of the drivers.

#8 ARTGP

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 16:46

I wasnt sure where to put this ....

I notice that Mariott is no longer on the car ... which is a little sad as they used to sponsor F1 coverage in the Evening Standard in the UK - which is the only paper I read as its free on public transport.

I also heard on missed Apex podcast last night that whilst Daimler is not pulling out they have instead told the team that it will need to stand on its own two feet financially going forward. And that the Ineos deal - as well as the Force India deal - is part of this new push for greater revenue.

I only hope that the push goes well enough for Merc to be able to afford to take Crowdstrike's sticker off the car.


With Daimler squeezing so hard, on a team that has won the last 6 championships, it really makes you concerned about Honda and Renault who will have similar agendas in the boardroom.

Also now it starts to make sense why Merc agreed to supply McLaren. More revenue.


Edited by ARTGP, 24 February 2020 - 20:36.


#9 ARTGP

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 00:43

Bottas wants to sign a new contract early this season: https://www.autospor...-resolved-early



#10 Marklar

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 00:57

And I want to be a millionaire

#11 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:05

Anyone else already tired of Bottas 3.0? 

 

 ;)



#12 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:06

Would a car with little to no weaknesses in driveability/a high level of maturity help Bottas or Lewis more, relative to his teammate? Thoughts? 


Edited by beachdrifter, 25 February 2020 - 01:07.


#13 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:36

Bottas wants to sign a new contract early this season: https://www.autospor...-resolved-early

Sky headlines Bottas bullish...wants another contract........ :lol:



#14 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:41

Would a car with little to no weaknesses in driveability/a high level of maturity help Bottas or Lewis more, relative to his teammate? Thoughts? 

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think there is a situation where the end result will different. Lewis is in a different league than Bottas and unless reliability plagues him (way) more, or he starts to take mindfulness lessons from Vettel the end result with be the same. There just isn't enough consistency in Bottas, especially in race pace. 



#15 Marklar

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:46

Would a car with little to no weaknesses in driveability/a high level of maturity help Bottas or Lewis more, relative to his teammate? Thoughts?

Impossible to say.

In theory a car with high drivability and consistency helps the slower driver. Although it's not always the case. Especially in 2017 Bottas handled it better when the Mercedes was a diva.

But every car has certain - even if small - tendencies that could benefit either driver. Last years Merc was very understeer-y compared to this year, which should in theory help Lewis more now. OTOH increased tyre pressures should bother him more than Bottas. Actually the DAS could be a blessing for Lewis: his only weakness compared to Bottas is getting tyres up to temp in qualifying after all.

in any case it's all minor enough to assume that it will be pretty much same procedure as every year

#16 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 03:35

Isn't he doing himself more harm then good at this point? It's not like he's under pressure from Max or Charles who are pretty much locked in and committed so isn't he better off waiting on Lewis' decision, which I assume would go towards remaining, so he's got a stronger position to bargain from as long as he remains a reliable number 2? That way he might iron out an agreement that lasts more than a year?

 

He's also trapped himself into "He's not got a contract yet > He's not good enough really > He must try harder > Mistakes > loses drive" for no benefit whatsoever.


Edited by pitlanepalpatine, 25 February 2020 - 03:39.


#17 kernel

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:22

I wasnt sure where to put this ....

I notice that Mariott is no longer on the car ... which is a little sad as they used to sponsor F1 coverage in the Evening Standard in the UK - which is the only paper I read as its free on public transport.

I also heard on missed Apex podcast last night that whilst Daimler is not pulling out they have instead told the team that it will need to stand on its own two feet financially going forward. And that the Ineos deal - as well as the Force India deal - is part of this new push for greater revenue.

I only hope that the push goes well enough for Merc to be able to afford to take Crowdstrike's sticker off the car.


Missed Apex doesn’t really have any special intel. It’s pretty much a given that Daimler is going to minimise its cash outlay into the F1 unit considering the reorganisation it is going through right now.

Missed Apex in fact has had a terrible track record whenever they’ve announced any “scoops”. But this one was very safe based on all disclosures made to date by Daimler. I wouldn’t be surprised if one day Ineos takes over Petronas as lead sponsor. They seem quite keen to expand into sports to elevate their profile.

#18 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 17:57

Merc are also adding McLaren as a new engine customer for next season. I'm not worried at all about their future in the sport and/or their financial viability.



#19 TomNokoe

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 18:08

This will be Hamilton's greatest season. His motivation seems to be at an all-time high. I'm very excited.

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#20 Dutchrudder

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 18:12

Bottas will feel Russell breathing down his neck for that seat. I think he may be a little relieved that they didn’t take a year long flyer on Ocon this year, but another decent season from Russell will surely see him move up.

Of course Bottas looked great at the start of last season, and Nico was in season 4 as Hamilton’s teammate before he beat him.

#21 SonGoku

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 18:43

I think Bottas seat is safe, I don't see Merc going with a new driver when everything changes in 2021 and they need all the experience with 6 days testing.

#22 alframsey

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 18:52

I'm not sure Russell would make the jump from Williams to Merc next season, as said already surely go with a known quantity for a season where it is all change? Anyway I expect it will be more of the same between Lewis and Valtteri this season and the only question is whether Bottas can get closer to Lewis than he has before.



#23 OO7

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 22:09

https://twitter.com/...375961095565312



#24 Blackmamba

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 23:06

I think Bottas seat is safe, I don't see Merc going with a new driver when everything changes in 2021 and they need all the experience with 6 days testing.


Only 3 seats are safe on the grid. Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc. The rest I wouldn’t be shocked if changes happened. As for the 2021 season I view it differently. I think there is no better opportunity to bring in changes when it’s effectively a reset back to zero. No one has any experience with the new cars so everyone will be on the same boat. Excellent opportunity to for example bed in a young guy like Russell for the future.

#25 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 23:25

at some point MGP have to implement a plan that prepares them for the post-Hamilton era. I think 2021 could be a good year to try out a new talent 



#26 Piif

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:20

Only 3 seats are safe on the grid. Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc. The rest I wouldn’t be shocked if changes happened. As for the 2021 season I view it differently. I think there is no better opportunity to bring in changes when it’s effectively a reset back to zero. No one has any experience with the new cars so everyone will be on the same boat. Excellent opportunity to for example bed in a young guy like Russell for the future.

 

But again, doesn't Russell still have 2 years left in his Williams contract? If Bottas nails the season, I'm pretty sure he'll get another one-year extension. But it all depends on Hamilton really.



#27 David1976

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 10:39

Mercedes would be VERY brave to even consider Russell in 2021. 

 

He's still relatively unknown, as far as his F1 experience is concerned, and going into a big regulation change known experience will count for testing this time next year.



#28 SonGoku

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 12:16

Mercedes would be VERY brave to even consider Russell in 2021. 

 

He's still relatively unknown, as far as his F1 experience is concerned, and going into a big regulation change known experience will count for testing this time next year.

 


Exactly my point, if it had to happen it should have been this year for RUS, next year isn't going to happen when you have 6 test days to discover a complete new car.

#29 ARTGP

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 16:19

Mercedes would be VERY brave to even consider Russell in 2021.

He's still relatively unknown, as far as his F1 experience is concerned, and going into a big regulation change known experience will count for testing this time next year.


I don’t need to remind you what Hamilton did in 2007....

If Russel “isn’t ready” to drive a Merc after 1 year let alone 2 years then is he really Merc’s future?

Edited by ARTGP, 26 February 2020 - 16:20.


#30 Marklar

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 16:51

If Williams is really as competitive as it looks like I can see Russell having a good chance.

Imagine if Russell scores some impressive points this season, while Bottas drives so-so, it could happen.

There are several factors here of course: You could say that Mercedes has to react to Ferrari/RB having a top junior driver, but if Hamilton stays in the middle term you can bridge that time before getting Max/Leclerc/whoever else. Plus Mercedes as the championship winner team has for more to lose by putting an less experienced driver into the car that may fail and cost them the WCC. And unlike Ferrari with Leclerc they are also not under pressure since they have both a great lead driver and a good number two. having experienced drivers could help for rule changes. too.

Personally I think Bottas will retain the seat in 2021 unless he wrecks it up. Then - I believe - a lot will depend on whether they feel like they could sync up Hamilton's career end with Verstappens arrival. If they cant they are better off to pick between all the young drivers (Ocon, Norris, Russell) and put the best of them against Lewis in the hope that they will develop into their next lead driver. If yes, Bottas has even a good shot to stay for years. First as Hamilton's team mate, then as Verstappen's.


Edited by Marklar, 26 February 2020 - 16:53.


#31 Paco

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 16:52

I think Bottas seat is safe, I don't see Merc going with a new driver when everything changes in 2021 and they need all the experience with 6 days testing.

Depends on if Mercedes give Russell a few days of seat time at testing days.. I would t be so sure, if RB take it to Mercedes and give them a hard time and Bottas continues is Sunday’s weakness it will be a hard case to stay the course.. shocking he stayed in 2020 and probably more to do with Russells rookieness and lack of experience and not wanting to ruin his career against Lewis by up promotion to earlier after all the stuff that happened at RB.. Charles is the only reason Mercedes may do what Ferrari did in 2021.

I hope to get a better racer the qualifier in that seat.

Edited by Paco, 26 February 2020 - 16:52.


#32 Blackmamba

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Posted 28 February 2020 - 02:36

If Williams is really as competitive as it looks like I can see Russell having a good chance.
Imagine if Russell scores some impressive points this season, while Bottas drives so-so, it could happen.
There are several factors here of course: You could say that Mercedes has to react to Ferrari/RB having a top junior driver, but if Hamilton stays in the middle term you can bridge that time before getting Max/Leclerc/whoever else. Plus Mercedes as the championship winner team has for more to lose by putting an less experienced driver into the car that may fail and cost them the WCC. And unlike Ferrari with Leclerc they are also not under pressure since they have both a great lead driver and a good number two. having experienced drivers could help for rule changes. too.
Personally I think Bottas will retain the seat in 2021 unless he wrecks it up. Then - I believe - a lot will depend on whether they feel like they could sync up Hamilton's career end with Verstappens arrival. If they cant they are better off to pick between all the young drivers (Ocon, Norris, Russell) and put the best of them against Lewis in the hope that they will develop into their next lead driver. If yes, Bottas has even a good shot to stay for years. First as Hamilton's team mate, then as Verstappen's.

See, you’re making a huge assumption there that Verstappen will want to go to Mercedes when Hamilton retires. That’s not guaranteed at all as we can all witness the Redbull/Honda blossoming quite quickly. Who’s to say Redbull is not the team to beat by then. Or Ferrari for that matter. Mercedes can’t stay at the top forever and when they get pegged back they are gonna need a top notch driver. That is not Bottas. In that case at least give Russell a chance to prove himself. Surely he can at least do as well as Bottas is doing right now but he has a higher ceiling. A lot of potential for him to grow so that he can be ready to take the lead and fight Verstappen and Leclerc when the time comes. Who knows, he might even be good enough to snatch the crown from Hamilton’s hands if given the chance, highly unlikely as it may seem.

#33 Marklar

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Posted 28 February 2020 - 07:02

See, you’re making a huge assumption there that Verstappen will want to go to Mercedes when Hamilton retires.

I'm not making a assumption at all, I said "if" and brought forward both scenarios.

Also I'm sure that Verstappen will sooner or later leave Red Bull. By the end of his contract he will be there 8 years. Either he will leave at some point due to lack of success or because he wants a new challenge.
 

In that case at least give Russell a chance to prove himself. Surely he can at least do as well as Bottas is doing right now but he has a higher ceiling.

That on the other hand is a massive assumption. Plenty of drivers failed once they raced against great drivers after looking good elsewhere. Take Gasly or Vandoorne for recent examples. Or Hulkenberg for a driver that was mega in feeder series but struggled against some solid drivers in his F1 career.

Personally I think Russell wont be one of them, but who knows?

His situation is a bit difficult in any case, except of testing data from last year (which often dont tell much) he doesnt have much of a opportunity to prove himself (unless as I said Williams has a okay car and he can steal some great results, but even that is not always conclusive). Norris and especially Ocon on the other hand have. because they have well established team mates. In Ocon's case even one that is undoubtly good enough for a top team.


Edited by Marklar, 28 February 2020 - 07:28.


#34 Blackmamba

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 06:26

I'm not making a assumption at all, I said "if" and brought forward both scenarios.
Also I'm sure that Verstappen will sooner or later leave Red Bull. By the end of his contract he will be there 8 years. Either he will leave at some point due to lack of success or because he wants a new challenge.
 

That on the other hand is a massive assumption. Plenty of drivers failed once they raced against great drivers after looking good elsewhere. Take Gasly or Vandoorne for recent examples. Or Hulkenberg for a driver that was mega in feeder series but struggled against some solid drivers in his F1 career.
Personally I think Russell wont be one of them, but who knows?
His situation is a bit difficult in any case, except of testing data from last year (which often dont tell much) he doesnt have much of a opportunity to prove himself (unless as I said Williams has a okay car and he can steal some great results, but even that is not always conclusive). Norris and especially Ocon on the other hand have. because they have well established team mates. In Ocon's case even one that is undoubtly good enough for a top team.

Norris and Ocon are nothing special. That’s my opinion of course. We are talking about a driver to replace Hamilton and lead Mercedes going forward. Norris got beat by Sainz who got beat by Hulkenberg who got beat by Ricciardo. So already you can see he is a few tiers below the level he needs to be at if he was to lead a Mercedes team. Ocon also hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire especially when he went up against Perez. It was all a bit meh.
So why not put Russell in your car for 2021 in order to evaluate him. He will sink or he will swim. If he sinks no harm done you release him and move on, make other contingency plans while you still have Hamilton. Surely you don’t wanna try to find that kind of driver in an emergency situation. And if Russell is good enough you solve a big headache and you cultivate him for the future. And it is a big headache how you replace a driver like Hamilton. Like I said before it’s not guaranteed that Verstappen will be available whenever Mercedes wants him. Elsewhere Leclerc has firmly nailed his colours to the Ferrari mast. That’s it basically for your superstar drivers of the future as Ricciardo is a bit long in the tooth at 30. Why not give Russell a shot and see if he is of that ilk.

#35 Marklar

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 08:23

Norris and Ocon are nothing special.

And Russell is?

Norris was regarded *much* higher until F2. Where he finished in a Carlin 2nd despite having no Pirelli experience. As much as I think that his F1 debut is overstated his F2 season is even more understated. Losing to a established driver on debut is fine, plenty future WDC did, though I guess it's fair to say that most of the very great drivers started better.

Ocon was regarded similar as Russell at this stage of his career. He was great in feeder series and with just few races under his belt he was already beating somebody like Wehrlein. His stock only fell when he was put up against a established driver (who he was matching usually), something that Russell hasnt been yet.

Russell has a higher chance to be special since he hasnt been exposed yet. But you dont want to find that out in a title battle. He even admitted himself last year in Hungary when Williams was for once competitive that battling other cars is a very different thing in F1, and he never gets to experience that at Williams.

He will sink or he will swim. If he sinks no harm done you release him and move on,

Except of losing the WCC and maybe the WDC of course, which is everything that matters.

And if Russell is good enough you solve a big headache and you cultivate him for the future. And it is a big headache how you replace a driver like Hamilton. Like I said before it’s not guaranteed that Verstappen will be available whenever Mercedes wants him. Elsewhere Leclerc has firmly nailed his colours to the Ferrari mast. That’s it basically for your superstar drivers of the future as Ricciardo is a bit long in the tooth at 30. Why not give Russell a shot and see if he is of that ilk.

So what is so wrong about waiting till the end of 2021 when all young drivers are out of contract and you can just pick the best out of them (might be Russell, by then most questionmarks might be gone)? Why does it *have* to be Russell, who is extremely unproven still. Why should Mercedes break a working team for a risky option when they have probably a year at least more to evaluate them (if Hamilton extents)?

If none of these drivers are good enough then tough luck, you cant exactly force it.

#36 gillesfan76

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 13:05

Vettel to Mercedes in 2021. Just a guess   ;)



#37 Bartonz20let

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 18:59

Vettel to Mercedes in 2021. Just a guess  ;)


Wouldn't be surprised if Hamiltons career outlasted Vettels to be honest.

#38 alframsey

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:01

Vettel to Mercedes in 2021. Just a guess  ;)

I just don’t see it unless he destroys Leclerc and drives the wheels off of a dog of a Ferrari, what has he shown these past three seasons to suggest he’s able to beat let alone replace Lewis at Merc?

Edited by alframsey, 09 March 2020 - 20:02.


#39 motorhead

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:31

Bottas was really impressive at Williams against Massa who was a proven race winner and one of the fastest at his best. That´s why he got the job. Russell has one year against injured Kubica under his belt. This year he drives against his rookie paydriver teammate Latifi. It will be really difficult to judge his form once again



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#40 ARTGP

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:32

I just don’t see it unless he destroys Leclerc and drives the wheels off of a dog of a Ferrari, what has he shown these past three seasons to suggest he’s able to beat let alone replace Lewis at Merc?

 

 

Why does he need to beat Hamilton?  Bottas doesn't , and he still has his seat for 3 years. Rosberg kept his seat before that too.


Edited by ARTGP, 09 March 2020 - 20:33.


#41 Paco

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:35

Mercedes saw how all the guys did well but not stellar year 1, they know Lewis on top form so they were probably right to wait a bit... seeing the debacles at RB last year. I don’t think who he drove against had anything to do with it. He needs more time...just as Alex did and Lando needs another season to really see what’s he’s got. Took Max years and years to calm down and drive like a Champ.. it’s not always about going all out every corner and every chance to make a move when you at the top 4 seats.. theirs a maturity needed and the young guys need time just Like Charles.. the extra year he bought himself after they exploded last season will help him..

Edited by Paco, 09 March 2020 - 23:32.


#42 ToniF1

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:40

Can't stand Russell for some reason, you know when someone's appearance just irritates you for some reason... And this year will again prove nothing, he will again be driving at the back in a bad Williams. Hope he never joins Mercedes.


Edited by ToniF1, 09 March 2020 - 20:40.


#43 alframsey

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:45

Why does he need to beat Hamilton? Bottas doesn't , and he still has his seat for 3 years. Rosberg kept his seat before that too.

I assumed he would be replacing hamilton a number 1 driver in this scenario?

#44 alframsey

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:48

I actually like to Russell but I don’t pretend he hasn’t proven anything, he’s actually proven almost nothing due to husband car and teammate, Green is hoping the Williams Is at least as fast as something so we can see how he goes in proper wheel to wheel combat.

#45 Marklar

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:48

I just don’t see it unless he destroys Leclerc and drives the wheels off of a dog of a Ferrari, what has he shown these past three seasons to suggest he’s able to beat let alone replace Lewis at Merc?

Vettel is the best driver besides Hamilton on the market, of course they have to consider him should Lewis leave, even if he wouldnt be a like-to-like-replacement, but hardly anyone would be anyway.

Alongside Hamilton would be a different matter though. Bottas, while slower, fits a lot better to that role both finanically and personality-wise.



#46 SonGoku

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 20:50

Merc won't pay 40M or more to both drivers, only Hamilton will get that.

#47 Paco

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 23:34

Mercedes don’t need him other then he’s German which may mean more the we think...

#48 Pimpwerx

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 09:10

Bottas does his job just fine. As long as he can deliver the results he has to date, there's no reason to replace him. He's had 2 good seasons of 3. If he can have another good season, the talk of replacing him should die down. The only drivers to have prevailed against Lewis over a season are both WDCs. Let's not set unrealistic expectations for his teammates. Most championship drivers never team with a single WDC, and Lewis has teamed with 3. Expecting Bottas to bring that level of challenge is unrealistic. He doesn't need to either, as only 1 driver can win the WDC each year. Bottas is fins, so long as he isn't compromising Merc's abilities to contend, which he has not done, even in his worst season with the team.



#49 TheFish

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 16:00

Bottas does his job just fine. As long as he can deliver the results he has to date, there's no reason to replace him. He's had 2 good seasons of 3. If he can have another good season, the talk of replacing him should die down. The only drivers to have prevailed against Lewis over a season are both WDCs. Let's not set unrealistic expectations for his teammates. Most championship drivers never team with a single WDC, and Lewis has teamed with 3. Expecting Bottas to bring that level of challenge is unrealistic. He doesn't need to either, as only 1 driver can win the WDC each year. Bottas is fins, so long as he isn't compromising Merc's abilities to contend, which he has not done, even in his worst season with the team.

He was also unlucky in 2018. He should have won in Baku and obviously moved over in Russia for Lewis.

 

Would like him to be replaced for 2021 though, same when Raikkonen left Ferrari, it gets boring having the same team year after year. More entertaining when there is some unknown.



#50 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 7,095 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 11 March 2020 - 19:12

I actually like to Russell but I don’t pretend he hasn’t proven anything, he’s actually proven almost nothing due to husband car and teammate, Green is hoping the Williams Is at least as fast as something so we can see how he goes in proper wheel to wheel combat.

 

 

I am really scratching my head at this analogy  :lol:  Care to explain?