8 replies to this topic

[GuyDormehl]

As an EV fan (road cars - not necessarily race cars!) I find FE interesting and certainly a hotbed of research and development which explains the presence of so many manufacturers (nice to see Jag doing better...).

 

But it is in many ways irrelevant to the public and no guide to the performance of road EVs. So I was thinking what we need is a Production EV series.

 

Cars must be nearly standard - maybe allow some brake mods; racing tyres; lowered suspension; stripped out interior; roll-cage but standard bodywork; motor; batteries. Could allow software development.....

 

Race over 4-6 hours at slower tracks (to better mimic road use - could even use bespoke track layouts with really slow sections to represent slow/city driving). Provide 350kW chargers and start cars with a full charge.

 

It would be really fascinating to see which cars would do well as charging rate as well as efficiency would be key. Maybe driving a bit slower would be 'faster'.....

 

So which cars would be in contention as of now? iPace, Taycan (range/efficiency may hobble it), Merc EQC, or one of the Teslas (most probably the Model 3P, but the Model S may be in with a shout - although currently battery cooling when 'racing' is an issue)

 

I'd personally find it fascinating! And illuminating. Have a series of about 4-6  races per year over differing tracks. Would be interesting to see the annual improvement in EV performance and it would reflect the real world EV performance far more accurately than any EPA rating; 1/4 mile drag race; top speed etc

 

Comments?

[Risil]

Sounds a bit like Trials competition from before the war, with some circuit racing thrown in. I like the sound of it, although once you've made the necessary safety modifications for racing the things, are they still an accurate representation of the production models' real world capabilities?

But yeah, Formula E is great and all but I'd like to see competition that reflects where all the road car manufacturers are at. Perhaps the manufacturers wouldn't!

[Vielleicht]

I’d take a look at what the folks over at Eco Grand Prix are doing if I were you. They do 9 and 24 hour trials on both closed circuits and regular open roads. Basically unmodified from road spec and speed vs charging time is key so it’s very relevant.

http://ecograndprix.com/

They’re planning for expansion in 2021 as well
https://e-racing365....ansion-in-2021/

Edited by Vielleicht, 24 February 2020 - 12:03.

[Vielleicht]

2018 9 Hours of Calafat Highlights 

https://youtu.be/ZgPjSy-t2cs

 

2019 9 Hours of Calafat Livestream

https://www.youtube....h?v=ITFFASR3Goc

Edited by Vielleicht, 24 February 2020 - 12:21.

[GuyDormehl]

Thank you Vielleicht, that is very interesting and I had not heard of this series. Interesting as far as I can see every race I looked at has been won by Tesla! Hardly surprising.....

 

What I did find disappointing was the fact that the charging is limited to 22kW so 3-4hrs per pitstop! This sort of destroys the point of trying to cover the greatest distance in the time allocated and gives no indication of the cars ultimate performance on a long journey. This also seems to have resulted in slow driving to extract max range/efficiency - hardly racing! Apparently the infrastructure at the various tracks does not allow fast charging so I don't know how one gets over this before Electric racing is more widespread and fast chargers are needed at tracks - by that time the relevance of this sort of EV 'racing' may have become redundant.

 

The ability to fast charge is crucial to the uptake of EVs for long journeys - currently the better EVs at the best fast chargers can take on 200 miles range in around 20 mins (so time to pee, stretch legs and grab a bite and drink). Fast charging at the races would make driving hard sensible as charging would be quicker than going for better efficiency/range.

 

It would also show what makes had the best batteries, charging rates and EV efficiency. It would be fascinating to see Tesla; Porsche; Jag etc going head to head on this basis! I don't think we'd see Zoe's; Soul's; Smart's etc in the results as now!!

[Vielleicht]

I think what it shows more than anything else is that your idea is fairly sound. There are people out there who have not only been organising endurance EV events with near if not stock production vehicles but gaining enough interest from competitors and sponsors to start to expand.

Formula E was more of a brute force, ‘build it and they will come’ arrival of EV racing rather than building on an existing grassroots base. Because of that there was a huge amount of uncertainty as to wether it would take off or not.

One of EcoGPs plans is a 24 hour street event in central Birmingham, UK in collaboration with the local council (who want to promote EVs and sought to hold an FE race a couple of years back). That kind of public exposure is the kind of thing that may attract technology sponsors/providers and perhaps one day manufacturer backed teams to show that what they have is the best. So I think the fundamental base is actually there for what you suggest, it just may take some time to emerge.

As Risil alluded to, the early days of motorsport frequently saw this kind of competition as trials to show that the technology was viable to a skeptical public. The Indy 500 and Le Mans can trace their roots to that time. So it’s all very interesting really.

Edited by Vielleicht, 24 February 2020 - 14:22.

[Ben1445]

Fun fact: the very first Le Mans 24 Hours (1923) was unofficially won with an average speed of 57.7mph. Back then it was intended to be an 'endurance trial' with target average speeds depending on engine size to meet at 6 hour intervals to meet or face disqualification and the winner determined by how much you exceed your target by. 

 

I suppose that shows that this type of production EV competition even today could yet evolve into something of significant recognition. Agree it would be good to see some fast charging in those EcoGP races but it is pretty encouraging to see both multiple years of successful events and planned expansion. It shows that the spirit of those early, pioneering racers is still alive... which is nice I guess. 

 

Something to keep an eye on I think. 

[vactrac]

If there was a series, I'd be willing to enter my Model 3 LR RWD. Anything that charges faster uses more energy right now.

[RA2]

 

• McLaren F1: 1:04.6
• Tesla Model 3 Ascension-R by Unplugged Performance: 1:04.7
• Porsche 911 GT3 997: 1:04.8
• Ferrari F40: 1:04.8
• Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI: 1:04.9
• Lamborghini Gallardo:  1:05.0
• Porsche 911 Turbo 997: 1:05.2

The fastest recorded lap time at Tsukuba is a 1:00.3 by a Nissan Nismo GT-R.