69 replies to this topic

[marcainley]

This really winds me up. It seems to be the norm now, and I'm wondering how long it's been going on? There seems to be an increasing trend of teams updating the livery on all instances of their cars from the last few years.

 

I understand the need for a show car to display at events or in the store of a sponsor. It makes sense that this would need to reflect that year's livery and sponsorship but be an old chassis without an engine etc. But I have noticed this going on for a few years now, that even the examples of cars that the teams keep running have their livery updated.

 

Each year's livery and sponsorship combination is part of the team's history and tied to certain memories. I'm sure this is true for many fans' favourite teams and drivers. It is without doubt that a team would not update the livery on a 'historic' car of theirs from 20+ years ago - McLaren would not paint their 1989 car in papaya. So why do teams do it to their cars from the last 5 years? They might not be now, but one day those will be historic cars.

 

2009 Ferrari F60 in 2016 colours.

 

[JeePee]

Probably because since the new turbo-era, teams were not allowed to test the current-gen cars. So all the shows are done with the V8 cars, which of course have to feature the current sponsorship logo's. 90% of the people watching those show events probably think it's a current car.

[Beri]

Probably because since the new turbo-era, teams were not allowed to test the current-gen cars. So all the shows are done with the V8 cars, which of course have to feature the current sponsorship logo's. 90% of the people watching those show events probably think it's a current car.

This.

[Burai]

Ironically, the F60 looks better in that livery than the SF16-H did.

[Peat]

More interestingly, Vettel managed to drive around an oval alongside a team-mate without squeezing/driving into him. 

[Beri]

Ironically, the F60 looks better in that livery than the SF16-H did.

It indeed does.

[Risil]

Probably because since the new turbo-era, teams were not allowed to test the current-gen cars. So all the shows are done with the V8 cars, which of course have to feature the current sponsorship logo's. 90% of the people watching those show events probably think it's a current car.

The turbo-hybrids are probably a lot more expensive to run, too?

[JeePee]

The turbo-hybrids are probably a lot more expensive to run, too?

Yes. A lot less 'plug and play'. And let's be honest... to impress a crowd fairly new to the sport, it's easier to do that with the ear-destroying V8's and with the current turbo's.

[pdac]

Yes. A lot less 'plug and play'. And let's be honest... to impress a crowd fairly new to the sport, it's easier to do that with the ear-destroying V8's and with the current turbo's.

 

Won't that then make the feel disappointed when they encounter the current ones?

[Pete_f1]

Won't that then make the feel disappointed when they encounter the current ones?

Thay would have paid their money by then.

[DanGB]

It's been going on a lot longer than that - I remember as a lad seeing my first F1 car in person. It was a 1997 Jordan, dressed up in 1999 livery for people to have their photo taken with at Southend airshow. 

 

It's probably done because of sponsorship deals - they don't want to be exhibiting sponsors they no longer have arrangements with but want to show off the logos of new sponsors.

 

Ross Brawn's BGP001 spent several years painted silver as a Mercedes showcar before it was restored back to the 2009 Brazilian GP livery. 

Edited by DanGB, 24 February 2020 - 13:47.

[JHSingo]

I think we were having this discussion in the Goodwood FoS thread last year. Teams turning up with a 2012 car or whatever, despite it not being in the period correct colours.

 

I find it irritating too. I suppose in many cases it's because the car they are using at events like Goodwood are neither old enough nor important enough to keep in the original livery. You'd think (and hope) that they wouldn't repaint a car that had won the championship, for instance. The F60 didn't really achieve much at the time, so I suppose it's the perfect 'mule' car in many ways.

 

But yeah, for anyone who values the history of the sport - even recent history - it is a rather annoying habit for many teams.

[Beri]

I even dislike the display cars in museums having to remove tobacco advertisement. Williams, Woking and Ferrari all have tobacco sponsorship removed in their respective museums.

Edited by Beri, 24 February 2020 - 15:16.

[Paco]

I even dislike the display cars in museums having to remove tobacco advertisement. Williams, Woking and Ferrari all have tobacco sponsorship removed in their respective museums.

Seriously?.. that’s ridiculous.

[ARTGP]

Haven't red bull slapped Honda stickers on the demo cars from 2010-2014?

[Beri]

Seriously?.. that’s ridiculous.

I stand corrected about Williams. But at Ferrari and Woking I know it is a fact..

[Burai]

I don't see the problem with that at all. It's not like they didn't run without the barcodes/blank spaces at times in period.

[TheGoldenStoffel]

Completely agree with you, it's sacrilege in my opinion.

[Knowlesy]

I don't really mind them taking the decals off the car tbh.

On the other hand I do find it annoying when they edit old photos to blur out sponsors. McLaren are absolute hounds for that.

As for the dressing up old cars in new colours, that has been going on a long time has it not?

Edited by Knowlesy, 24 February 2020 - 17:05.

[PayasYouRace]

I even dislike the display cars in museums having to remove tobacco advertisement. Williams, Woking and Ferrari all have tobacco sponsorship removed in their respective museums.

 

That might not be forced. For example, historic display cars at events like Autosport International or Goodwood often carry their full tobacco livieries.

 

Having said that, it's not innaccurate because all those cars would have raced in France, Britain and Germany with tobacco bans in force.

[PayasYouRace]

Weird that this topic comes up once in a while. It wouldn't be complete without this charming monstrosity.

 

 

This popped up on reddit:
*shudders*

[DanGB]

I thought I read somewhere that McLaren had restored some, if not all of their old cars back to Marlboro/West branding since the team changed management? 

 

Edit:

 

Edited by DanGB, 24 February 2020 - 17:20.

[Louis Mr. F1]

i don't like seeing updated livery on old cars, they are terrible actually.  Look at this one, a Williams FW12 (or FW12B) with Camel decals (where it should have been ICI decals) and there's even some bits of Barclay tobacco decals left on the same car - this is just very wrong.

 

 

Edited by Louis Mr. F1, 24 February 2020 - 17:33.

[Louis Mr. F1]

I thought I read somewhere that McLaren had restored some, if not all of their old cars back to Marlboro/West branding since the team changed management? 

 

Edit:

 

 

I hope this is true because at one time, they wouldn't even have the Marlboro chevron displayed on their cars (look at the front of the car, the red is in curved shape) - this was what they did when Marlboro didn't want to have their logos displayed at the 1985 South African GP.

 

 

1985 South African GP

[Beri]

That might not be forced. For example, historic display cars at events like Autosport International or Goodwood often carry their full tobacco livieries.

Having said that, it's not innaccurate because all those cars would have raced in France, Britain and Germany with tobacco bans in force.

I know. And it's not really related to this topic. But it does bother me. Because any anto tobacco livery is an alternate livery. And I (usually) cherish the normal liveries.

And to quote from your post:

This popped up on reddit:
*shudders*

What the actual flange were they thinking?!?!?

[muramasa]

The problem is those lobbyings to push whatever-ly correctness is destroying culture and history in Europe, they are even annihilating and editing classic literature. I remember people used to joke "what, are they going to censor and ban classic literature, arts and movies and all that because most of them are not in line with current correctnesses?", back then it was tease, but they are actually doing it. Scary. McLaren Ferrari just have to comply and remove/modify original tobacco logos.

 

Modifying original livery of racing cars is same as modifying Picasso or Gogh or whatever painting and Mozart or Schubert or whoever's production. It's criminal. Racing cars should be treated as historical heritage same as arts and constructions and literature and music and whatever else. For demo-runs and promotional display purpose, teams have to paint in contemporary livery which is necessary and understandable, but other than that special and rare exemptions, racing cars should be kept in original state.

Edited by muramasa, 24 February 2020 - 17:47.

[Burai]

Weird that this topic comes up once in a while. It wouldn't be complete without this charming monstrosity.

 

That reminds me of when Scalextric tried to maximise the lifespan of their Ferrari 643 mould by re-releasing it with the 1996 and 1997 (pictured) liveries.

 

 

Scalextric also tried to pass off the same Ferrari mould as IndyCars:

 

 

[PayasYouRace]

It was also a Minardi and a Dallara. I had the former in my Pole Position set.

[Knowlesy]

Minichamps used to use up all their old moulds with what they called launch cars. Previous year's car with new season livery.

Threw up some absolute horrors. The 1996 Ferrari in 1997 livery was terrifying.

[midgrid]

It's the perfect combination of Vladimir Putin driving a Prost AP04 masquerading as a Renault R30.

[Burai]

McLaren would not paint their 1989 car in papaya.

But I might paint their 1988 car in papaya. 

 

[Beri]

That just doesn't seem right. It goes to show that iconic racing cars are partly iconic because of its original livery.

[TennisUK]

Weird that this topic comes up once in a while. It wouldn't be complete without this charming monstrosity.

Think that's bad?

 

Check this out:

 

 

Enzo would not be happy.

 

There's a Eurobrun ER189 somewhere with Marlboro stickers on it to make it look like a Mclaren of the same era, too. I believe it was sold as part of a brace of 'Senna tribute' cars along with something similarly unsuccessful (a Coloni or something) painted up like his 1994 Williams.

 

I have literally no idea why someone would spend the money on buying an F1 car and making it track worthy and painting it to look like a totally different car - very odd.

[TennisUK]

Ah, here we go, Simtek S192 painted to look like a Williams FW16:

 

[Beri]

Think that's bad?

Check this out:



Enzo would not be happy.

There's a Eurobrun ER189 somewhere with Marlboro stickers on it to make it look like a Mclaren of the same era, too. I believe it was sold as part of a brace of 'Senna tribute' cars along with something similarly unsuccessful (a Coloni or something) painted up like his 1994 Williams.

I have literally no idea why someone would spend the money on buying an F1 car and making it track worthy and painting it to look like a totally different car - very odd.

Could be me, but that's a Dallara F189 if I'm not mistaken. The livery isn't too far off from the original tho.
The only question at hand: is that number #27 that is being worn by this car? If so, then I do get your point.

[Beri]

Ah, here we go, Simtek S192 painted to look like a Williams FW16:

Oh dear me. With matching Senna helmet also. Just to top it off.

Edit: It's a S921 of Andrea Moda. Not a Simtek.

Edited by Beri, 26 February 2020 - 10:25.

[TennisUK]

And here again with the extremely unconvincing 'Mclaren':

 

[Beri]

Makes it look like an F3000 car.

[PayasYouRace]

Oh dear me. With matching Senna helmet also. Just to top it off.

Edit: It's a S921 of Andrea Moda. Not a Simtek.

The S921 was designed by Simtek, hence family resemblance.

[TennisUK]

Could be me, but that's a Dallara F189 if I'm not mistaken. The livery isn't too far off from the original tho.
The only question at hand: is that number #27 that is being worn by this car? If so, then I do get your point.

It is a Dallara f189 - and the livery was similar - but obviously the guy it pretending it's a Ferrari f193:
 
Dallara:

 
Ferrari F193:

[PayasYouRace]

Could be me, but that's a Dallara F189 if I'm not mistaken. The livery isn't too far off from the original tho.
The only question at hand: is that number #27 that is being worn by this car? If so, then I do get your point.

Whatever it is, it’s a straight up 1993 Ferrari livery.

[TennisUK]

The S921 was designed by Simtek, hence family resemblance.

Oops, my error

 

To be fair, the Simteks/Andrea Moda had pretty advanced aero and certainly looked 'contemporary' compared to some of their back of the grid brethren, considering their limited budget.

[Beri]

Whatever it is, it’s a straight up 1993 Ferrari livery.

I got it thanks to the pictures above. It's almost blasphemy!

[Beri]

Oops, my error

To be fair, the Simteks/Andrea Moda had pretty advanced aero and certainly looked 'contemporary' compared to some of their back of the grid brethren, considering their limited budget.

It wasn't an attack on you. Just was under the impression the S921 was an Andrea Moda car. I didn't know about the combined history with Simtek. So another day and another lesson learned by me 😉

[TennisUK]

It wasn't an attack on you. Just was under the impression the S921 was an Andrea Moda car. I didn't know about the combined history with Simtek. So another day and another lesson learned by me

The S921 was originally commissioned by BMW as a test car for a V12 that was never made...

[TennisUK]

The tacky chrome wheels actually make it look more like a Penske Indycar from the early 90s than a Mclaren...

 

[Beri]

The tacky chrome wheels actually make it look more like a Penske Indycar from the early 90s than a Mclaren...

I got a sense of "it's not an F1 car" seeing that picture.. got a vibe like:

[lustigson]

The Wikipedia page for the Dallara F192 has a picture of that car's livery on a Fondmetal GR02... 

 

[lustigson]

The tacky chrome wheels actually make it look more like a Penske Indycar from the early 90s than a Mclaren...

 

 

It shows that this classic livery looks good on any car. 

[TennisUK]

The Wikipedia page for the Dallara F192 has a picture of that car's livery on a Fondmetal GR02...

That is super weird. I mean. Why?