24 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

I have just been reading the 'Auto Italiana' report of the 1964 Circuito del Mugello road race - half-forgotten cousin of the Targa Florio, run on that magnificent 41-mile road circuit through the Tuscan hills.

 

It mentions a driver using the pseudonym 'Fortinbras' - presumably from Shakespeare's 'Hamlet' - who lay fourth at the end of the opening lap before crashing his 'Ferrari GTO' on the first corner after the crest of the Giogo Pass...

 

Can anyone tell me the true identity of 'Fortinbras'?  I've heard the pseudonym before but have never known his proper name; nor - just now - can I find it.

 

And was his car, indeed, a GTO?  He reportedly spun off the road and came to rest with the car balanced on a wall.  Happily he emerged unhurt.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 26 February 2020 - 10:10.

[RCH]

"Fortinbras" shared 3647GT, the Surtees/Bowmaker 1962 TT car with a certain Luigi Mosca in the 1964 Targa Florio retired after 4 laps. According to Jess Pourret's tome the car then belonged to a certain A Bossa. Mosca later bought the car. Pourret lists Mosca as "Ulisse".

 

But then you probably knew all that anyway.

[Henk Vasmel]

I have 5 entries in my database for "Ulysse" (Luigi Mosca) with indeed 3647GT. Targa's '63, '64 and '65 and Mugello '64 and '65.

Co-drivers are listed as Fabrizio Corcos ('63), "Fortinbras" ('64), Tullio Sergio Marchesi (Targa '65) and "Notorius" (Mugello '65).

Entrants are listed L. Mosca in '63, "Ulysse" in '64, A. Bossa (Targa '65) and Enrico Mosca (Mugello '65)

Targa '63 = start number (114), DNS

Targa '64 = start number (132), Retired

Mugello '64 = start number (7), Retired

Targa '65 = start number (112), 29th

Mugello '65 = start number (112), DNA

License plates available in the Targa only: '63: MO77434, '64: NA299479 and '65: Roma800989

 

Circuito Del Mugello (Andrea Marsili Libelli) Contains a picture of the GTO with start number 7. It's red with a white nose edge (including and below the 3 nostrils)

It does not mention the entry in '65, but there is a gap in the starting numbers where it would fit in, next to another GTO.

Edited by Henk Vasmel, 24 February 2020 - 17:19.

[nexfast]

A picture of "Fortinbras"or "Ulysse":

 

http://www.targapedi... Prove (1).html

[elansprint72]

I took the part of Fortinbras in a school play. 

[RCH]

Am I overthinking this? Why would an Italian gentleman choose the name of a Norwegian prince from a play based in Denmark by an English playwright? Of course it is the best known play by the world's best known playwright but surely Shakespeare could have provided him with a number of Italian names to use?

 

Maybe it has something to do with the literal meaning of Fortinbras, "Strong in the Arm"? Or maybe I'm just overthinking it....

[Doug Nye]

A stereotypical Yorkshireman then? 

 

"Strong in the arm...

 

"Thick in the 'ead?"

 

Taking cover...

 

DCN

[Ray Bell]

That's why so many play cricket...

 

Against Australia.

[ensign14]

Am I overthinking this? Why would an Italian gentleman choose the name of a Norwegian prince from a play based in Denmark by an English playwright? Of course it is the best known play by the world's best known playwright but surely Shakespeare could have provided him with a number of Italian names to use?

There was "Pal Joe" (Gianfranco Palazzoli) of a similar vintage.  Maybe Fortinbras is a Fortina-Brasi or something?

[Bloggsworth]

A stereotypical Yorkshireman then? 

 

"Strong in the arm...

 

"Thick in the 'ead?"

 

Taking cover...

 

DCN

"Thick in t'ead" surely...

[Stephen W]

A stereotypical Yorkshireman then? 

 

"Strong in the arm...

 

"Thick in the 'ead?"

 

Taking cover...

 

DCN

 

 

"Thick in t'ead" surely...

 

I always remember it as ...

 

Yorkshire born,

Yorkshire bred,

Strong in the arm,

Thick in th'ead.

[dwh43scale]

It's been applied to other counties in the UK over the years ... depends where you hail from, I suppose.

[DogEarred]

Middlesex born
Middlesex bred
Strong in charm
Wicked in bed

Anybody guess where I come from?...

[Michael Ferner]

Fortina-Brasi has a nice ring to it. I always enjoy researching Italian races, and often just stop to let the names roll offa my tongue:

Bartolomeo Costantini
Abele Clerici
Massimiliano Lancellotti
Domenico Schiattarella
Ferruccio Zaniratti
Guglielmo Sandri
Roberto Campominosi
Due Americano e una Grappa, per favore

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 February 2020 - 08:54.

[Red Socks]

Fortina-Brasi has a nice ring to it. I always enjoy researching Italian races, and often just stop to let the names roll offa my tongue:

Bartolomeo Costantini
Abele Clerici
Massimiliano Lancellotti
Domenico Schiattarella
Ferruccio Zaniratti
Guglielmo Sandri
Roberto Campominosi
Due Americano e una Grappa, per favore

Americano and grappa-ugh !!
Just how non Italian can you get.

[Michael Ferner]

I don't pretend to be Italian. I drink cappuccino in the afternoon

[ensign14]

Ruggiero Melgrati.  Sounds like someone made it up for a Claudio Gentile-like defender in Roy of the Rovers.

[Ray Bell]

With Peter Windsor at an Oran Park meeting one night...

 

Bob Levett joined in with him as he repeatedly pronounced the name, "Ignazio Giunti."

 

For the three of us it was rolling off the tongue easily, it went on for some time.

 

The next day or the next week we learned he was dead.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Fortina-Brasi has a nice ring to it. I always enjoy researching Italian races, and often just stop to let the names roll offa my tongue:Bartolomeo CostantiniAbele ClericiMassimiliano LancellottiDomenico SchiattarellaFerruccio ZanirattiGuglielmo SandriRoberto CampominosiDue Americano e una Grappa, per favore

For me the most satisfyingly tongue-rolling name in motorsport comes from Moto GP.....retired Belgian rider Didier de Radigués.

[nexfast]

Rider and driver too. I wonder how you pronounce it since it is with the accent the other way round (de Radiguès) which makes it sound a little bit different.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Rider and driver too. I wonder how you pronounce it since it is with the accent the other way round (de Radiguès) which makes it sound a little bit different.

I’ve heard it pronounced only by English speakers, with the accent on the “Ra” syllable, which is probably incorrect.

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 26 February 2020 - 23:36.

[nexfast]

It's the other way round - accent in the last syllable and the "s" in the end is not muted. Not far away from "guess".

[Doug Nye]

Just for the record - we seem to have established now that while 'Ullise' ('Ulysses') was Luigi Mosca, 'Fortinbras' was the racing pseudonym of his brother, and official owner of their Ferrari 250GTO, Enrico Mosca.  

 

This has taken much hunting around by a whole bunch of supremely helpful Italian enthusiast friends who had found the mystery just as tantalising as I have for months past.  Marvellous what clean living and a classical education can do for one...

 

DCN

[richardspringett]

Oh dear, apologies....it has taken me longer to type this than to look and confirm Ulisse=Luigi Mosca (I) in Janos Whimpffen's wonderful "Time and Two Seats" pg 2231 bookII, but no Fortinbras.....

 

Richard 

Edited by richardspringett, 12 December 2020 - 01:43.

[10kDA]

For me the most satisfyingly tongue-rolling name in motorsport comes from Moto GP.....retired Belgian rider Didier de Radigués.

 

Fortina-Brasi has a nice ring to it. I always enjoy researching Italian races, and often just stop to let the names roll offa my tongue:

Bartolomeo Costantini
Abele Clerici
Massimiliano Lancellotti
Domenico Schiattarella
Ferruccio Zaniratti
Guglielmo Sandri
Roberto Campominosi
Due Americano e una Grappa, per favore

 

I once opined to my second wife that "a man" - no names invoked - might be perceived as desireably romantical by speaking in an Italian accent the names of Italian motorcycles. I proved it to her. I held her close, put my lips against her ear and in a deep soft voice I murmured "Ducati Pantah... Cagiva Allazura... (pause for effect) Moto Guzzi..." She busted out laughing. Looking me straight in the eyes and shaking her head from side to side, through laughter she managed to get off "You ARE a dog..."