Jump to content


Photo

Maserati 4CLT - was the tubular frame an oil reservoir?


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 taflach

taflach
  • New Member

  • 18 posts
  • Joined: October 19

Posted 27 February 2020 - 00:29

In Karl Ludvigsen's book "Classic Grand Prix Cars" he writes that the upgraded Maserati 4CL (the 4CLT from 1947) "had a suffer and lighter tubular frame that also served as an oil reservoir."

 

Does anyone know exactly how the tubular frame served as an oil reservoir?

 

Did the frame functioning as an oil reservoir carry over into the all-new frame of the 4CLT/48 (San Remo)?

 

I have the book by Christian Bertschi on the Maserati 4CLT chassis 1600 but this doesn't mention much about the interim car between the 4CL and the 4CLT/48.

 

Thanks, Jennie Mowbray

 

https://taflach.blog/

 

 



Advertisement

#2 Jhdrussell

Jhdrussell
  • Member

  • 43 posts
  • Joined: January 16

Posted 27 February 2020 - 09:41

One of the Scuderia Milan’s Maserati 4CLs, chassis no. 1580, was modified in 1947 as suggested.

It was raced twice in Europe, by Sommer and Parnell, before being taken to Argentina and sold.

The new frame was built by Gilco, and there is a photo of it, along with details of the project in this book.
https://www.gilena.i...ilberto-colombo

 

As far a I am aware, although Milan later modified two 4CLTs, their modifications did not include this feature.



#3 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,994 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 27 February 2020 - 13:57

I would hesitate for a long time before questioning anything from Jhdrussell on these cars but Alessandro Silva’s Back on Track says that it was 1581 that was modified. The new frame was designed by Mario Speluzzi who was also developing a two-stage supercharged version of the engine for the Ruggeris . Sommer drove it in the Italian Grand Prix, Parnell at Lausanne, by which time the two-stage supercharging had been removed. On both occasions the chassis leaked large amounts of oil. 
 

However, Karl Ludvigsen’s, as referenced in the original post, says that Ascari drove a car with tubular chassis containing the oil tank at Reims in July 1947.   This was entered by Scuderia Ambrosiana.  Alessandro says that Ascari drove 1583/1580 there and that Massimino had designed a tubular chassis but I don’t think he mentions an oil tank in the chassis. 
 

All very confusing - to me at least!


Edited by Roger Clark, 27 February 2020 - 13:58.


#4 taflach

taflach
  • New Member

  • 18 posts
  • Joined: October 19

Posted 27 February 2020 - 23:26

One of the Scuderia Milan’s Maserati 4CLs, chassis no. 1580, was modified in 1947 as suggested.

It was raced twice in Europe, by Sommer and Parnell, before being taken to Argentina and sold.

The new frame was built by Gilco, and there is a photo of it, along with details of the project in this book.
https://www.gilena.i...ilberto-colombo

 

As far a I am aware, although Milan later modified two 4CLTs, their modifications did not include this feature.

Thanks very much! The picture of the 1947 Maserati "Milan" was on the GilcoDesign website. It says that this was the first frame sold by Gilco. A very interesting idea but it sounds like it didn't really work that well.

 

I'm researching the Maserati 250F but I always like to find out the engineering heritage of a car to understand how it came to be built as it was. Also, Fangio's first grand prix race win was in a Maserati 4CLT.

 

In Anthony Pritchard's book, Maserati 250F in Focus, (which I don't own as it didn't get very good reviews), he says that the Maserati 250F chassis was made by Gilco. Is this true? I have the Maserati 250F books by Denis Jenkinson, David McKinney and Andy Hall and none of them mentions Gilco.



#5 taflach

taflach
  • New Member

  • 18 posts
  • Joined: October 19

Posted 28 February 2020 - 00:07

I would hesitate for a long time before questioning anything from Jhdrussell on these cars but Alessandro Silva’s Back on Track says that it was 1581 that was modified. The new frame was designed by Mario Speluzzi who was also developing a two-stage supercharged version of the engine for the Ruggeris . Sommer drove it in the Italian Grand Prix, Parnell at Lausanne, by which time the two-stage supercharging had been removed. On both occasions the chassis leaked large amounts of oil. 
 

However, Karl Ludvigsen’s, as referenced in the original post, says that Ascari drove a car with tubular chassis containing the oil tank at Reims in July 1947.   This was entered by Scuderia Ambrosiana.  Alessandro says that Ascari drove 1583/1580 there and that Massimino had designed a tubular chassis but I don’t think he mentions an oil tank in the chassis. 
 

All very confusing - to me at least!

Thanks Roger. I would love to own "Back on Track", but I can't afford to buy all the books I want!

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is confused :) 

 

At least I'm sure now that the Maserati 4CLT Fangio raced in 1949 at Mar del Plata didn't have the oil tank in the frame...



#6 karlcars

karlcars
  • Member

  • 639 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 28 February 2020 - 16:31

Sorry for any lack of clarity in my original writings. I'm betting that my source for this was Denis Jenkinson's invaluable annual reviews of racing-car design. Just the kind of detail he would have noted.

 

Gilco was relied upon by the Modenese firms for both racing and production tubular frames. They didn't like giving them credit!



#7 taflach

taflach
  • New Member

  • 18 posts
  • Joined: October 19

Posted 29 February 2020 - 22:49

Sorry for any lack of clarity in my original writings. I'm betting that my source for this was Denis Jenkinson's invaluable annual reviews of racing-car design. Just the kind of detail he would have noted.

 

Gilco was relied upon by the Modenese firms for both racing and production tubular frames. They didn't like giving them credit!

Thank you Mr Ludvigsen! I feel very honoured that you have replied to my question. Classic Racing Engines is one of my favourite books.

 

I don't think it was a lack of clarity with your writing. Rather it was me trying to work out which features had carried over between the two cars. Knowing that one major difference between the 4CL and the 4CLT had been the tubular frame I had wondered if the frame as oil reservoir had also carried over to the 4CLT/48. The whole idea of the frame as an oil reservoir was such a novel idea and I couldn't find anything on the internet about it.

 

Despite doing a moderate amount of research on Grand Prix cars during the 1950s I had never heard of Gilco. Now I know why :)

 

Thanks, Jennie Mowbray

 

https://taflach.blog/