126 replies to this topic

[RCH]

There's a book on Wiscombe history, written by Colin Rolls a long time CofC for the National Championship meeting. Not sure if still available. See Wiscombe web site.

 

Colin gave me what was, I believe, the last available copy of this a few weeks ago. 

Edited by RCH, 26 June 2021 - 08:34.

[Rupertlt1]

Wiscombe Park, Aston Martin Owners' Club, 7 April 1962

A week later the popular Wiscombe Park

season opened with a private club event for

members of the A.M.O.C. Run under poor

conditions, Patsy Burt made B.T.D. in the

only modern single-seater present, her

1,500 c.c. single-cam Cooper-Climax, in

50.14 secs.

Autosport, 22 February 1963, Page 252

 

RGDS RLT

[Rupertlt1]

Colin gave me what was, I believe, the last available copy of this a few weeks ago. 

 

What does the book ref Wiscombe Park tell us about 1958/1959?

 

RGDS RLT

[Rupertlt1]

Blandford Hill Climb, 750 M.C., Sunday 18 October 1964

B.T.D.: R. Fry (Ferrari 250LM) 28.97 s

Class winners:

G. P. Dobbins (Mini) 41.24 s.

C. J. Rogers (Mini) 35.49 s.

Neville Trickett (Mini-Cooper) 31.71 s.

Janos Odor (Mini-Cooper) 32.98 s.

W. F. J. Heaney (Mini-Cooper S) 32.14 s.

A. W. Mansbridge (Ford Anglia) 34.05 s.

D. B. Coulson (Sunbeam Rapier) 36.50 s.

M. J. Miles (Jaguar 3.8) 33.22 s.

Ron Fry (Ferrari 250LM) 28.97 s.

Autosport, 30 October 1964

 

RGDS RLT

[RCH]

What does the book ref Wiscombe Park tell us about 1958/1959?

 

RGDS RLT

Not a great deal, have sent a PM

[Rupertlt1]

Julian Hunt in Motorsport Explorer agrees that there was only one event, in November 1962. He describes the course as ‘simple but daunting’, noting that the faster competitors had to start braking before they crossed the finishing line so they could get through the bend in the braking area. He also confirms that John Macklin set FTD in ‘his 1,100cc Lotus’.

 

Rockley Sands, Poole, West Hants and Dorset C.C., 4 November 1962

"to round off the season John

Macklin drove his recently purchased ex-

Romanes Lotus 20 Junior to a win at

Rockley Sands. This being a new event,

Macklin's time of 25.72 secs. constitutes a

course record."

Autosport, 22 February 1963, Page 258

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 10 July 2021 - 05:44.

[Rupertlt1]

Big 'uns and

little 'uns

came to Yeovil

The car speed sprint organized by the

Yeovil Car Club in conjunction with the

Burnham, West Hants. and Dorset and

Taunton Car Clubs on Sunday attracted

competitors and spectators from all

parts of the West Country.

The cars competing ranged from the

family saloon to the racing car. Mini

Minors to Ferraris.

Results

Class 1: T. Williams, Taunton Motor Club, Mini Minor

Class II: J A. Stringer, Yeovil Car Club, Austin A35

Class III: A. Hartwell, West Hants and Dorset, Sunbeam Rapier

Class V: H. Digby, Yeovil Car Club, a modified Mini Austin

Class VI: R. Knapman, West Hants and Dorset, Sunbeam Alpine

Class VII: R. Fry, Burnham-on-Sea, Ferrari

Class VIII: R. Ashford, Burnham-on-Sea, M.G. Midget

Class IX: J. White, Burnham-on-Sea, Petty 1,000.

Novice: R. M. Southcombe, Yeovil Car Club, Vauxhall

Fastest time of the day: Eric Willmott, Burnham-on-Sea, Elva Ford, time 66.63 sec.

Team Award: Westward Car team.

Taunton Courier, and Western Advertiser, Saturday 22 September 1962, Page 12

 

Presumably this event was held at Yeovilton?

 

Event: 31 March 1963

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 31 July 2021 - 03:57.

[Rupertlt1]

Rockley Sands, Poole, West Hants and Dorset C.C., 4 November 1962

"to round off the season John

Macklin drove his recently purchased ex-

Romanes Lotus 20 Junior to a win at

Rockley Sands. This being a new event,

Macklin's time of 25.72 secs. constitutes a

course record."

Autosport, 22 February 1963, Page 258

 

RGDS RLT

 

ProvisionaI Results

Class 1: 1, D. R. Dean (848 Mini), 33.66s.;

2, B. Dale (848 Mini), 33.97 s. Class 2: 1, L. Onslow-

Bartlett (997 Mini Cooper), 31.26 s.; 2, D. De Souza

(997 Mini Cooper), 31.46s. Class 3: 1, W. A.

Walters (2922 Aston Martin), 31.27 s.:2, A. Lefevre

(1494 Rapier), 31.75 s. Class 4: 1, M. Reid (997

Austin-Healey), 30.26 s.; 2, K. Ross (948 M.G.

Midget), 33.59 s. Class 5: 1, J. R. Gibbs (1098 Fair-

thorpe), 31.65 s.; 2, M. Burgess (l172 Lilfo), 33.30 s.

Class 6: 1, R. Knapman (1598 Sunbeam), 30.67s.;

2, A. Lefevre (1598 Sunbeam), 32.08s. Class 7:

1, R. Fry (2953 Ferrari), 26.48 s.; 2, P. Farquharson

(5420 Allard), 26.98s. Class 8: 1, J. Macklin (1100

Lotus 20), 25.72s.; 2, F. W. Floyd (1098 Cooper),

26.34s. Fastest Time of Day: J. Macklin (1100 Lotus),

25.72s. Ladies' Award: Mrs. J. Ross (948 M.G.

Midget), 33.60s. Novices' Award: D. R. Dean

(848 Mini), 33.66 s.

Autosport, 16 November 1962, Page 696

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 28 November 2021 - 09:33.

[Rupertlt1]

Plymouth M.C.

HEMERDON HILL-CLIMB, Sunday 21st July 1963, Closed to Club, course 440 yards approx

RESULTS

B.T.D.: J. Grafton (Lotus), 24.68 s.

Class Winners: C. Milner (Mini), 27.16 s.;

R. Doidge (Cooper), 26.94 s.;

R. Harper (VW), 28.54 s.;

A. Lefevre (Midget), 25.24 s.;

J. Hoare (Porsche), 27.46 s.

D. van Horn (Morgan), 25.54 s.;

N. McKee (M.G.), 29.74 s.

Ladies Award: Mrs. S. MacGregor (Mini), 27.80 s.

Novice Award: G. Capps (Midget), 26.10 s.

Autosport, 2 August 1963, Page 170

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 28 November 2021 - 16:33.

[Rupertlt1]

1958:

Seven-Fifty M.C.—Results of the Blandford

speed hill climb, on 19 October were as

follows:

Class 1: 1. Austin (D. Richmond); 2. Austin

(S Ldr Gaston). Class 2: Ford (N.R. Jones).

Class 3: 1. LMB Popular (J. Turner); 2. Sunbeam

Rapier (G. Hartwell). Class 4: Riley-A.C. (A.M.

Park); 2. Ford (P. J. Harris). Class 5: 1. Simplicity

(J. S. French); 2. Austin (I. Rowe). Class 6: 1. Mille

Cent (F. J. Tiedeman); 2. Lilfo (J. R. Burry).

Class 7: Morris (W. A. Cleave); 2. Kamp

Special (W. Camp). Class 8: 1. AC (T. G.

Cunane); 2. Triumph (M. G. Wilshin). Class 9:

1. Allard (P. L. Farquharson); 2. Allard Gran

Turismo (S. H. Allard). Class 10: 1. Vintage

Bentley (Harry Rose). Class 11: 1. Elva (P. S.

Banbury). Class 12: 1. Frazer Nash (W. E.

Wilks). Class 14: Allard (S. H. Allard). Class

16: 1. Cooper (E. G. Willmott). Best time of day:

Cooper (David Good) 29.07 sec. Second best:

Cooper formula 2: (Patsy Burt) 29.32 sec.

Autocar, 7 November 1958, Page 765

 

Seven-Fifty M.C. holds a hill-climb

at Blandford, Dorset, on 19th October.

Invited clubs are B.A.R.C., B.R.S.C.C.,

Club Lotus, Hants and Berks M.C.,

North Cornwall M.C., Southsea M.C.,

Surrey Sporting C.C., Vickers-Arm-

strongs M.C., Vintage Sports Car Club,

West Cornwall M.C. and West Hants

and Dorset C.C.

 

Vickers-Armstrongs M.C. based at Hurn airport?

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 24 January 2022 - 09:57.

[Rupertlt1]

Ibsley:

"The initial length of the circuit was given as 1 mile 1,743 yards. The start and finish line was along the North-South runway, and the four corners of the track were named Court Corner (S.E.), Sampsons Curve (S.W.), Church Corner (N.W.), and Paddock Bend (N.E.). Some of the leading makes of racing car were at Ibsley, including Alfa Romeo, Allard, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Maserati and M.G. Drivers included Salvadori, Sopwith, Stewart, Hill and Brabham."

 

Notes: Presumably Jimmy Stewart. Hill recently also found at Tarrant Rushton.

 

RGDS RLT  

Edited by Rupertlt1, 07 February 2022 - 07:28.

[GazChed]

At least two other future World Champions competed at Ibsley. John Surtees made his motorcycle racing debut there, while in 1952 Mike Hawthorn won both the Formula Two and Formule Libre races as well as finishing fourth in the Formule Libre handicap race in his Bob Chase entered Cooper Bristol.

Both Ian and Jimmy Stewart competed at Ibsley on several occasions. In 1952 Ian raced his Jaguar XK120 in the largest capacity sports car race while Jimmy Stewart finished sixth to Mike Hawthorn in the Formula Two race in his 1100cc vee-twin engined Cooper Jap. (In the results in silhouet.com his name is spelt Stuart so there is some doubt it was him).

In 1953 Ecurie Ecosse sent several cars to Ibsley with Ian taking victories in the Formule Libre race (Connaught A Type) and the large capacity sports car race (Jaguar C Type) with Jimmy taking sixth and third in these races with his Jaguar C Type.

The following year Jimmy took his Jaguar C Type to victory in the large sports car race and was runner-up to Ron Flockhart and his BRM V16 in the Formule Libre race.

Of the other drivers mentioned, Roy Salvadori won the 1955 Formule Libre race and set the outright lap record in his Maserati 250F with Graham Hill sixth in a Jaguar C Type and Jack Brabham in the ex Peter Whitehead Cooper Alta T24 running fourth before his engine blew. Tommy Sopwith was third in a Cooper T39 Bobtail in in the same meeting's up to 1500cc sports car race.

I noticed a D J Rickman racing a Triumph TR2 in a couple of sports car races at Ibsley. Could this have been Don or Derek who went on to be at the forefront of the British domination of scrambling (motocross) in the sixties ? They lived just down the road in New Milton.

Edited by GazChed, 07 February 2022 - 08:27.

[Steve123]

I hope that GazChed will forgive me for being rather pedantic, but John Surtees did not actually begin his motorcycle racing career at Ibsley. He started at Brands hatch in 1950, having earlier competed in a few grass track meetings. He raced at the annual Ibsley motorcycle meetings in 1952, 1953, 1954, and 1955.

I cannot understand why the Ecurie Ecosse chose to support the fairly minor annual  Ibsley car meetings. (There was one car, and one motorcycle meeting every year form 1951-1955). The prize money was very small, even by the standards of the time. The meetings ran on a financial knife edge, so I am sure that any help with expenses would have been minimal. it is a very long way from Edinburgh to Hampshire.

One big problem for the organisers (West Hants and Dorset MC) was that the former airfield had no form of fencing round it. There was, therefore, no way of charging spectator admission. The only spectator income came from parking fees.

The need for a spectator safety fence post 1955 sadly finished racing at Ibsley. Similarly, Davidstowe and (for 7 years) Castle Combe were lost at the same time.

[BRG]

I searched the map for Ibsley without success.  Until I found that it was dug up and is now a large gravel pit full of water.

[dgs]

At least two other future World Champions competed at Ibsley. John Surtees made his motorcycle racing debut there, while in 1952 Mike Hawthorn won both the Formula Two and Formule Libre races as well as finishing fourth in the Formule Libre handicap race in his Bob Chase entered Cooper Bristol.

Both Ian and Jimmy Stewart competed at Ibsley on several occasions. In 1952 Ian raced his Jaguar XK120 in the largest capacity sports car race while Jimmy Stewart finished sixth to Mike Hawthorn in the Formula Two race in his 1100cc vee-twin engined Cooper Jap. (In the results in silhouet.com his name is spelt Stuart so there is some doubt it was him).

In 1953 Ecurie Ecosse sent several cars to Ibsley with Ian taking victories in the Formule Libre race (Connaught A Type) and the large capacity sports car race (Jaguar C Type) with Jimmy taking sixth and third in these races with his Jaguar C Type.

The following year Jimmy took his Jaguar C Type to victory in the large sports car race and was runner-up to Ron Flockhart and his BRM V16 in the Formule Libre race.

Of the other drivers mentioned, Roy Salvadori won the 1955 Formule Libre race and set the outright lap record in his Maserati 250F with Graham Hill sixth in a Jaguar C Type and Jack Brabham in the ex Peter Whitehead Cooper Alta T24 running fourth before his engine blew. Tommy Sopwith was third in a Cooper T39 Bobtail in in the same meeting's up to 1500cc sports car race.

I noticed a D J Rickman racing a Triumph TR2 in a couple of sports car races at Ibsley. Could this have been Don or Derek who went on to be at the forefront of the British domination of scrambling (motocross) in the sixties ? They lived just down the road in New Milton.

Both  the books 'A Record of Grand Prix and Voiturette Racing, Volume 5' by Formula One Register and 'Motor Racing at Ibsley 1951-1955 by Robert Barker' state it was Jimmy Stuart not Jimmy Stewart that competed in the 1952 Formula 2 race that Mike Hawthorn won.

 

The Formula One Register book in text  notes " The only incident came when Jimmy Stuart (not Stewart) spun at Paddock Bend. Salvadori ran into him, while Woodgate and Peacock were also involved".

[Rupertlt1]

I searched the map for Ibsley without success.  Until I found that it was dug up and is now a large gravel pit full of water.

 

You are right — there is very little left on the ground. You can glimpse the old control tower through the woods, on private property, which is in a derelict state. There is a modest war memorial nearby. The rest has been obliterated. A sad end for an old R.A.F. station, also used by the U.S.A.A.F., which subsequently played a part in the golden age of motor sport after World War Two.

Apparently Geoff Duke tested his motorbike there to assess the suitability of the track.

So much Sadness, So much Fun, RAF Ibsley 1941 – 1952, Compiled by Vera Smith of the R.A.F. Ibsley Historical Group, Page 212.

 

There was also motorcycle racing at Ibsley? Does anybody have a track map?

 

GOOD IBSLEY ENTRY

A TOTAL of no less than 183 entries has

been received by the West Hants and

Dorset C.C. for their race meeting to-

morrow at Ibsley circuit, near Ringwood,

Hants. A quick glance through the lists

reveals names such as Salvadori, Scott-

Brown, Chapman, Leston, Brooks, Crook,

Burn, Riseley-Prichard, Beauman, etc.

etc. Richard Cobden, the Australian, is

down to drive a 2-litre Ferrari; the usual

500 c.c. protagonists—Parker, Russell,

Bicknell, Bueb, Lewis-Evans, etc., will

wage another battle for F3 honours.

There will be eight races in all, for

750 Formula cars, sports cars, vintage

sports cars, F3, Formule Libre (Salvadori

in the Gilby Engineering 2½-litre

Maserati runs in this event) and closed

cars. The first race is at 2.15 p.m. 

Autosport, 29 April 1955, Page 517    

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 08 February 2022 - 03:57.

[dgs]

Interesting that the Ecurie Ecosse team competed at Ibsley three year's in a row.

1952:  19-04-1952 (three  entries of Jaguar XK120  (Bill Dobson/David Murray: Sir James Scott-Douglas: Ian Stewart)

1953:  18-04-1953 (three entries of Jaguar C-types  (Ian Stewart: Jimmy Stewart: Sir James Scott-Douglas)

1954:  08-05-1954 (two entries of Jasguar C-types (Ninian Sanderson: Jimmy Stewart) and one entry Cooper T20-Bristol (Alex McGlashan)

 

As mentioned earlier it a long way from Edinburgh to Hampshire

 

As well as the three World Champions (Mike Hawthorn: Jack Brabham & Graham Hill) a further 29 drivers appeared at  the Ibsley circuit  who would eventually competed in a World Championship Grand Prix. These include two British Hill Climb Champions - Tony Marsh and Michael MacDowel. maybe I cheated a little in this total by including Colin Chapman who only managed practice at 1956 French GP.

 

Finally at the last event 30-04-1955 where for the first and only time a charge for admission was made for spectators of 2 shillings and sixpence (12.5p)

Event 5 a Mr Nelson Graham managed to beat Mike Hawthorn (Lancia-Aurelia GT (2451cc) in his Austin A30 (803cc). It should be added that this was a 5 lap Handicap race for Closed Cars, and Mr Graham was given a 3 minute handicap.

[GazChed]

Don't forget the fourth world champion, John Surtees, who may not have made his debut at Ibsley but definitely competed there albeit on two wheels not four.

Ecurie Ecosse was a frequent visitor down south, also competing at Castle Combe, Thruxton and Goodwood, sometimes on consecutive weekends and presumably staying down south between meetings. Also, in one Formule Libre race at Ibsley they entered no fewer than five cars, their Formula Two Cooper and Connaught and the three Jaguar C Types.

Regarding the Jimmy Stuart/Stewart debate the only other similar entry was in the Joe Fry Trophy at Castle Combe where Jimmy Stewart entered a Cooper T12 JAP, qualifying but unfortunately non starting. A Jimmy Stuart is listed on racingsportscars. com but his first entry isn't until 1956, although this isn't conclusive as racingsportscars.com, as their name suggests concentrate on sports car races or Formule Libre races with sports cars entered.

[Steve123]

With regard to the request for a track map of the motor cycle course, the bikes used the same courses as the cars. The runways formed a natural square (more or less) with two runways crossing from the four corners. The "outer circuit" was nearly 2 miles round.

The earlier meetings used a course made up of three sides of the square. The cars and bikes then turned onto one of the centre runways, went across to where the runways intersected, turned onto the other runway and made their way back onto the square.

 

Later meetings just went round the outer circuit square. My guess is that there had, perhaps, been some deterioration of the centre runways, but this is only my guess. 

 

Still seems very surprising that Ecurie Ecosse went all that way for a relatively minor meeting with such small prize money.

[dgs]

Don't forget the fourth world champion, John Surtees, who may not have made his debut at Ibsley but definitely competed there albeit on two wheels not four.

Ecurie Ecosse was a frequent visitor down south, also competing at Castle Combe, Thruxton and Goodwood, sometimes on consecutive weekends and presumably staying down south between meetings. Also, in one Formule Libre race at Ibsley they entered no fewer than five cars, their Formula Two Cooper and Connaught and the three Jaguar C Types.

Regarding the Jimmy Stuart/Stewart debate the only other similar entry was in the Joe Fry Trophy at Castle Combe where Jimmy Stewart entered a Cooper T12 JAP, qualifying but unfortunately non starting. A Jimmy Stuart is listed on racingsportscars. com but his first entry isn't until 1956, although this isn't conclusive as racingsportscars.com, as their name suggests concentrate on sports car races or Formule Libre races with sports cars entered.

I stand corrected on the fifth car entry. I overlooked this whilst looking at results. This was at the 18-04-1953 meeting, 15 lap race (Ibsley Challenge Cup) No 86 Ninian Sanderson (Cooper T20-Bristol) No 87 Jock Lawrence (Jaguar C-type) No 88 Ian Stewart (Connaught A) No 89 Jimmy Stewart (Jaguar C-type) and No 91 Sir James Scott-Douglas (Jaguar C-type)

I did not mention (as I should have) John Surtees as my knowledge in motor cycle races/drivers could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

[GazChed]

Until recently I was the proud owner of Peter Swinger's Motor Racing Circuits in England : then and now. From memory the author described the later circuit which used the airfield's perimeter roads as resembling the end on view of a loaf of bread. Unfortunately I am no expert on a computer but putting in 'motorsportmagazine.com/database/circuits/ibsley/ takes you to a page of the database which contains a brief description of the circuit as well as a diagram of both versions of the Ibsley circuit. There are also aerial views of the airfield online which seem to show that the circuit does not include parts of the perimeter road.

 

I looked up Jimmy Stewart's results online (sports car and Formule Libre results on racingsportscars.com and Formula Two on silhouet.com and F2 Register) to see how far Ecurie Ecosse travelled during the 1953 season. Apart from three visits to Charterhall, the British Empire Trophy at Douglas, I.O.M. and a trip to the Nurburgring 1000 kms all of Stewart's racing took place south of the Watford Gap. 

 

His season started in the Cooper T20 in the Formula Two Lavant Cup at Goodwood on Easter Monday and ended up taking sixth place in the  Jaguar C Type at the Nurburgring. In between he raced at Charterhall, Ibsley, Castle Combe, Silverstone (the sports car race supporting the International Trophy and the British Grand Prix where he was classified ninth in the Cooper in spite of failing to finish), two trips to Snetterton, two trips to Thruxton which netted three wins and a third in the Jaguar C Type, a sixth in the British Empire Trophy on the Isle of Man and a return to Goodwood for a fourth place finish in the Jaguar in the Goodwood 9 Hours before the visit to the Nurburgring. As can be seen, the trip to Ibsley was far from Ecurie Ecosse's only trip south.

[cooper997]

September 1951 Iota ran this Ibsley report for the 4 August meeting.

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[Stephen W]

I think that Denis Jenkinson competed at Ibsley on 4 wheels and possibly on 3 with hias chauffeur Eric Oliver.

[RogerFrench]

Another who made their race debut at Ibsley was Ron Barker (Steady) in my father's Simplicity. A 5-lap handicap, which he won. Handicappers weren't caught out again, but this was also Simplicity's debut.

[BRG]

For those, like me, ignorant of the Simplicity, here is the device!

[dgs]

Another who made their race debut at Ibsley was Ron Barker (Steady) in my father's Simplicity. A 5-lap handicap, which he won. Handicappers weren't caught out again, but this was also Simplicity's debut.

The debut of Roger French's fathers car 'Simplicity' at Ibsley is interesting

 

The car was entered at 18th April 1953 meeting. Event no 1 (5 lap Race for 750 Formula Cars) No 16 Jack French

The Ibsley booklet only lists first three finishers, but a report in Motor Sport magazine reads:

 

Frank Tiedeman car (No 17) hit the straw bales on lap 4, one of which ended up in front of Jack French's car. He pushed the bale several hundred yards before stopping to remove it, and then had to push start his car, eventually finishing 14th.

 

The car could not have been badly damaged, as  Roger mentions it won a race in the hands of Ronald Barker. This was  Event no 4 (5 lap Handicap for Vintage Cars). Ronald Barker was given a 2 min 10 sec  handicap time, winning in 11'02.6"   

[Vitesse2]

You are right — there is very little left on the ground. You can glimpse the old control tower through the woods, on private property, which is in a derelict state. There is a modest war memorial nearby. The rest has been obliterated. A sad end for an old R.A.F. station, also used by the U.S.A.A.F., which subsequently played a part in the golden age of motor sport after World War Two.

Apparently Geoff Duke tested his motorbike there to assess the suitability of the track.

So much Sadness, So much Fun, RAF Ibsley 1941 – 1952, Compiled by Vera Smith of the R.A.F. Ibsley Historical Group, Page 212.

 

RGDS RLT

The Landmark Trust are seeking the funds to restore and refurbish that one remaining structure at Ibsley, actually known as the Watch Office, to create a four-bedroom holiday home.

 

https://www.landmark...71527/#Overview

 

Art Newspaper report: https://www.theartne...ion-restoration