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Teams want to postpone 2021 rules


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Poll: Teams want to postpone 2021 rules (139 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you agree?

  1. Yes (96 votes [69.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.06%

  2. No (43 votes [30.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.94%

What alternatives do you suggest?

  1. Cancel 2020 and start 2021 with new regs as planned (17 votes [12.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.23%

  2. Make an early start for new regs sometime (late?) this year (7 votes [5.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.04%

  3. None, what they suggest is fine. Start 2020 late and don't change regs until 2022 (97 votes [69.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.78%

  4. Other, explain (18 votes [12.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.95%

They now want to postpone 2021 changes to 2023, do you agree?

  1. Yes (3 votes [27.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.27%

  2. No (8 votes [72.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 72.73%

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#1 THEWALL

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 15:37

Teams are trying to postpone 2021 reg changes: https://www.motorspo...eeting/4770373/.

 

 

 

 


Edited by THEWALL, 31 March 2020 - 17:54.


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#2 Risil

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 15:45

Better to postpone the rules than risk teams running out of money. And it's not at all clear yet what will happen first, major manufacturers dropping out because their boards want to reduce costs, or the smaller teams dropping out because of cashflow. So it's hard to even propose a compromise like allowing Mercedes, Ferrari and co to sell an off-the-shelf chassis to customers at a reduced rate for 2021 only.



#3 RA2

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 15:46

They should have the mechanical rules for next year and move the aero parts to the year after

 

pirelli-18-inch-f1-tyres-001.jpg


Edited by RA2, 18 March 2020 - 16:00.


#4 Peat

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 15:48

Not against it in principal.

This thing could be an issue for the rest of the year and through next winter. Perhaps we're looking at a 20/21 'Super Season' with this years cars fitting in between the peaks and troughs of the outbreaks. 



#5 cpbell

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 15:57

Better to postpone the rules than risk teams running out of money. And it's not at all clear yet what will happen first, major manufacturers dropping out because their boards want to reduce costs, or the smaller teams dropping out because of cashflow. So it's hard to even propose a compromise like allowing Mercedes, Ferrari and co to sell an off-the-shelf chassis to customers at a reduced rate for 2021 only.

Given that the private teams are the sort that stay in F1 long-term, unlike the main manufacturers, Formula 1 ought to ensure their survival first, IMO, hence the new rule changes need to be pushed back a year.


Edited by cpbell, 18 March 2020 - 16:24.


#6 genius83

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:02

Rules delay and a super season is the best possible solution.



#7 Rjpscr

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:10

It's the right move to push the new regs back to 2022. This will also help the midfield teams with not getting out spent by a lot because with it being pushed back till 2022, the development of that car will actually fall under the budget cap. 



#8 Stephane

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:11

Let them make what is best for the teams financially. I don't see the new regs being that big of a change for us anyway



#9 Paco

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:16

Best is shut it down, stop spending money restarting when they can and go 2021 as is and 2022 with new rules set IF makes sense to do so based on where we are as of Sep 2020. That has been obvious for weeks now...

Edited by Paco, 18 March 2020 - 16:17.


#10 Atreiu

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:38

I don't know enough to give an informed opinion.

But in principle it sounds reasonable.



#11 Augurk

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:39

A lot of that money is being spent on personnel, so I don't think it's that simple. 

 

Good to shut things down now whilst they can and whilst others are forced to. I don't expect things to be all clear in a couple of weeks though.

 

I hope they will be able to race from the end of summer on and have as much races as possible, but still wrap up this season in 2020. Then push back the 2021 regulations for a year. 



#12 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:44

Better to keep the 2020 rules for another 5 years.

 

(with the budget cap)


Edited by pdac, 18 March 2020 - 16:47.


#13 Fastcake

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 16:50

If it is necessary to allow the teams to survive during the next few months, I fully support it. Regulation changes require a lot of money; just existing in F1 does as well, but the least you can do is not pile extra pressure on organisations that are struggling to survive. So many businesses will simply run out of money in the upcoming weeks, even with state support.

#14 Pingguest

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:01

They should cancel the new rules all together!   ;)

 

Seriously, the 2020 rules should stay the same for at least one extra year. To help teams to overcome this period, a development freeze is needed. After the development will be 'unfrozen', some parts should become 'open source'.



#15 Clatter

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:14

They should cancel the new rules all together!  ;)

Seriously, the 2020 rules should stay the same for at least one extra year. To help teams to overcome this period, a development freeze is needed. After the development will be 'unfrozen', some parts should become 'open source'.

A development freeze makes the racing pointless though. Just guarantees that any performance advantage is locked in. Great if you have the best car and looking for an easy WCC/WDC.

#16 Pingguest

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:19

A development freeze makes the racing pointless though. Just guarantees that any performance advantage is locked in. Great if you have the best car and looking for an easy WCC/WDC.

 

That would be a great preparation then. A budget cap will do the same.

 

Any way, one could have a development freeze until the very moment the 2020 season will eventually start.


Edited by Pingguest, 18 March 2020 - 17:20.


#17 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:20

A development freeze makes the racing pointless though. Just guarantees that any performance advantage is locked in. Great if you have the best car and looking for an easy WCC/WDC.

 

A development freeze would, as you say, lock in any advantages. I think, though, that if they introduced the budget cap but kept the 2020 regs for a long time (I say 5 years), then it may help teams to survive, financially, and also has the prospect of levelling the field a bit.



#18 Alburaq

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:22

New regs in 2022.

2021 regs identical to 2020

But budget cap in 2021.

And let the teams do what they want. No homologation/freezing bullshit... unless we pinpoint very specific and limited areas, like the gearbox and monocoque.


Edited by Alburaq, 24 March 2020 - 13:35.


#19 JHSingo

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:30

I'm in the minority with this - I say start 2021 as planned. Bin the current regulations ASAP, please. And then set that bin on fire.

 

Cynic in me thinks this is the golden opportunity some teams (likely the leading ones now, who want the status quo to remain) wanted to delay the regulations as much as possible, so that they can get them changed to something less dramatic. I hope I'm wrong, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me.



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#20 Jovanotti

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:45

Better to keep the 2020 rules for another 5 years.

(with the budget cap)

Another 5 Mercedes double championships and cars unable to follow each other due to dirty air, no thanks.

#21 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:46

I'm in the minority with this - I say start 2021 as planned. Bin the current regulations ASAP, please. And then set that bin on fire.

 

Cynic in me thinks this is the golden opportunity some teams (likely the leading ones now, who want the status quo to remain) wanted to delay the regulations as much as possible, so that they can get them changed to something less dramatic. I hope I'm wrong, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me.

 

I really believe that the biggest issue facing F1 right now is the potential lose of several teams from the 2021 season. If teams are already worried about how they are going to pay staff if they do not get money from somewhere, how are they going to find the money to spend money on designing and building a new car to the 2021 regs?

 

Then what about those teams who are already questioning the value of the money they are spending in F1. Would they still be happy to spend on a 2021 car if they are not going to get anything like the amount of money out of 2020 than they were expecting?



#22 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 17:47

Another 5 Mercedes double championships and cars unable to follow each other due to dirty air, no thanks.

 

Gonna happen anyway.



#23 Jovanotti

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 18:34

Gonna happen anyway.

Mercedes championships, maybe, but the racing surely should get better.

#24 lustigson

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 18:59

If they postpone the rules, then at least the budget cap should be introduced for next year. That levels the playing field at least somewhat regarding development for the new 2022 rules during the 2021 season (or a 2020-21 super season of sorts).



#25 SonGoku

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 19:14

I don't think they have a choice to be honest, a 2020 season looks even bleak right now.

#26 chhatra

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 19:45

Does it even matter right now?

Let’s deal with this pandemic first and then decide on how best to entertain ourselves later.

#27 Trust

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 19:50

They shouldn't postpone the rules. I want unpredictability.



#28 THEWALL

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 19:50

Does it even matter right now?

Let’s deal with this pandemic first and then decide on how best to entertain ourselves later.

Can we only talk COVID these days? This is a F1 forum. If you want to discuss COVID, go to COVID Forums. If you want to prevent an F1 forum from discussing F1, you know where you can go...



#29 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 20:30

They shouldn't postpone the rules. I want unpredictability.

 

I agree. Obviously, the reason for them discussing it must be because of the financial implications of carrying on as-is.



#30 Fastcake

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 20:47

They shouldn't postpone the rules. I want unpredictability.

You may well have unpredictability. The unpredictability of knowing how many teams will still exist in 12 months.

 

We'll be lucky if they can manage to mothball the 2020 cars and drag them out again whenever we next go racing. Regardless of what support the British and Italian governments can provide, businesses are going to be thrown into turmoil for a while, even long after shutdown measures are lifted. Some teams may not even be capable of putting together a viable 2021 car if this lasts long enough. Regulatory changes can wait. Actually having a sport that still exists is more important.



#31 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 21:16

Delay the 2021 regulations by one year

#32 SonGoku

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 21:19

@andrewbensonf1 · 4h F1 moves summer break to March and April

#33 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 21:33

@andrewbensonf1 · 4h F1 moves summer break to March and April

 

.. and May and June and July

 

Seriously, he has also reported that an announcement that the next three events (Netherlands, Spain and Monaco) are postponed/cancelled is expected in the next few days.


Edited by pdac, 18 March 2020 - 21:36.


#34 chrisj

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 21:40

This season is a bust and I don't want to see these cars again. I voted to move ahead with 2021 regs as planned. 



#35 Sterzo

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 21:51

Deferring new development has to be the right decision in a year when every team is going to lose income.

 

Also, Mercedes, Red Bull, McLaren and Williams are putting resource into developing medical equipment (presumably ventilators). Sounds like a better thing to do.


Edited by Sterzo, 18 March 2020 - 21:56.


#36 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 21:55

This season is a bust and I don't want to see these cars again. I voted to move ahead with 2021 regs as planned. 

No season means no income for the teams, I can't see some small teams surviving this scenario.



#37 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 22:33

No season means no income for the teams, I can't see some small teams surviving this scenario.

 

No season also means no income for Liberty - something they will find hard too. Having said that, I think no season is a big possibility.


Edited by pdac, 18 March 2020 - 22:33.


#38 Sash1

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 22:44

VAG and PSA are shutting down production, Ferrari are in lockdown, many other factories will shut down soon as well. This wil cost them a huge amount of money alone. Add to that bankrupt private and business customers, huge financial demands of energy transitions, surviving customers with less spending power.... You worry about Williams? Worry about Renault, Mercedes, Honda even.
Not just the teams, but many sponsors as well. Many of them will be lucky to survive this. Even then their spending power will be hugely reduced. Promoters, tracks, travel companies will soon be in deep deep ****.
Things will not simply be restarted, they will be reset.
And I am just talking F1 now. Lower class and national series will be a disaster zone as well. No war has shut down the world like this ever before. We are dealing with a financial meltdown.

#39 pdac

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 23:02

VAG and PSA are shutting down production, Ferrari are in lockdown, many other factories will shut down soon as well. This wil cost them a huge amount of money alone. Add to that bankrupt private and business customers, huge financial demands of energy transitions, surviving customers with less spending power.... You worry about Williams? Worry about Renault, Mercedes, Honda even.
Not just the teams, but many sponsors as well. Many of them will be lucky to survive this. Even then their spending power will be hugely reduced. Promoters, tracks, travel companies will soon be in deep deep ****.
Things will not simply be restarted, they will be reset.
And I am just talking F1 now. Lower class and national series will be a disaster zone as well. No war has shut down the world like this ever before. We are dealing with a financial meltdown.

 

Yes. Prepare yourself for a lot of companies being state owned in the future.



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#40 Flasheart

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 23:49

My first reaction was, why? Just scrap this years cars, and work on development for next year, and new regs. On further reflection, this is wrong. Teams need money. For that, they need sponsor exposure, bonuses from the governing body etc. No racing means none of either. The vast majority of the teams operate close to the line, and it doesn’t take much going wrong to be the difference between sinking or swimming. Depending when/if racing commences, depends on how healthy end of year finances are. So I reluctantly say to keep the regs, but implement the budget cap. Without teams, however small or uncompetitive, we don’t have F1....

#41 ARTGP

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Posted 18 March 2020 - 23:50

No season means no income for the teams, I can't see some small teams surviving this scenario.

 

 

Why can't they figure out how to get loans lol.   F1 needs a bailout package  :lol: .

 

 

FOM money in 2019 was no less than 50 million for any team and no less than 150 million each for the big 3.


Edited by ARTGP, 18 March 2020 - 23:53.


#42 pdac

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 00:07

Why can't they figure out how to get loans lol.   F1 needs a bailout package  :lol: .

 

 

FOM money in 2019 was no less than 50 million for any team and no less than 150 million each for the big 3.

 

If I had the money and it meant very little to me, I still wouldn't lend it to an F1 team.



#43 thequadge

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 00:39

I don't know why the cancellation is necessary, the teams are still gonna get paid this year (I'm still paying my Sky Subscription despite not getting F1 or any other sports). Most teams are already heavily into the 2021 development. Even if 2020 season is heavily curtailed (10 races, Sep start) alot of the work can still be done. Maybe the final cars  won't be as refined as if CV hadn't happened as they will lose some staff for 3 or 4 months but you could still build a 2021 car from scratch starting in Aug/Sep if you had to, it just wouldn't be as mature a design as normal. And even if the lose a percentage of their income it will happen to all the teams so it's not particular disadvantageous to one or other team.



#44 pdac

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 00:52

I don't know why the cancellation is necessary, the teams are still gonna get paid this year (I'm still paying my Sky Subscription despite not getting F1 or any other sports). Most teams are already heavily into the 2021 development. Even if 2020 season is heavily curtailed (10 races, Sep start) alot of the work can still be done. Maybe the final cars  won't be as refined as if CV hadn't happened as they will lose some staff for 3 or 4 months but you could still build a 2021 car from scratch starting in Aug/Sep if you had to, it just wouldn't be as mature a design as normal. And even if the lose a percentage of their income it will happen to all the teams so it's not particular disadvantageous to one or other team.

 

No, that's not correct. Just because you are paying Sky, it does not mean that Sky will be paying Liberty anything. The teams are paid out of the money that Liberty raises by selling the TV rights and from the sanctioning fees. There will be no income from either if no races go through, so Liberty will not have any income and, therefore, each teams cut will be some percentage of zero.



#45 BRK

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 03:58

And allow Mercedes another 2 years of domination. That'd be great, wouldn't it. 



#46 Marklar

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 07:24

Mercedes championships, maybe, but the racing surely should get better.

Racing will get worse if we only have a handfull cars though

And allow Mercedes another 2 years of domination. That'd be great, wouldn't it.

The assumption that rule changes will stop Mercedes more likely than contiunity is always very cute. How come 2018 was way more competitive than 2019?

Also some may severly understimate Red Bull. It's very well possible that 2020 will be a very close season (if it happens) and then the 2021 rule changes will just restore Mercedes' dominance (or somebody else, for that matter).

I understand the desire to have better racing (dirty air, etc.), but that it will change the competitive order like some want is very wishful thinking. Things are of course changing over years, but especially Red Bull has shown to be vulnerable to changes over the years.

Edited by Marklar, 19 March 2020 - 07:32.


#47 Ben1445

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 08:09

I honestly think that the combination of the financial hit that we will face from the virus and the break in continuity from the shut-down is a very potent combination. I really don’t know if it’s as easy a question as ‘shall we postpone 2021 rule or not?’

I think a much deeper evaluation of F1 and how it operates might be needed. I also don’t think there’s an appetite to do so from those who have the necessary influence.

I wouldn’t rule out the 2021 rules going the same way as the scrapped 2020 LMP1 regulations at this point.

Edited by Ben1445, 19 March 2020 - 08:09.


#48 ferrarista

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 09:07

https://translate.go...VqqBfmhW8cBnVLQ

So apparently also Ferrari agrees to postpone 2021 rules to 2022.

#49 kumo7

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 09:08

If I were a FIA member, I would hear what the teams had said, but ultimately make decision after Corona is ceased. 

Could go both ways, earlier o r not. This goes against the most reasonable prediction, but I have to admit none can know what will happen. So could go better...



#50 taran

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 10:00

I really believe that the biggest issue facing F1 right now is the potential lose of several teams from the 2021 season. If teams are already worried about how they are going to pay staff if they do not get money from somewhere, how are they going to find the money to spend money on designing and building a new car to the 2021 regs?

 

Then what about those teams who are already questioning the value of the money they are spending in F1. Would they still be happy to spend on a 2021 car if they are not going to get anything like the amount of money out of 2020 than they were expecting?

 

While the effects of the virus on F1 is a serious issue, I find all this whining about costs somewhat hilarious.

F1 happily has become a money-guzzling monster and just recently fought hard against attempts to limit its budgets to more manageable size.

 

Just set the fixed budget to Liberty-provided prize money and the problem is pretty much solved. But that would mean giving up the luxury life style and F1 would rather go bust.