222 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Plainly having had enough of getting fans ostensibly yawning at their pick of rather recent races, F1.com have decided to open their cupboard of race goodies a little wider this time. Possibly also while muttering 'Fine. Fine! YOU pick one, ya little jerks. Freaking kids!'

 

So yes, you, YOU! get to go over to f1.com and vote for one of the following races to be shown on YouTube on Wednesday 08 Apr at a time, well to be announced I guess - I didn't see it. 

These are the choices you can vote for:

 

https://www.formula1...2tA67OkghZ.html

 

Choices:

 

1. 1997 European GP (Villeneuve vs Schumacher take the roof off in an unforgettable season finale)

 

2. 1995 Spanish GP (Things start to come good for Michael Schumacher at Ferrari)

 

3. 1987 British GP (Mansell vs Piquet and a cast of thousands)

 

 

Obviously you have to go the their site for your vote to count, but just for fun, why not vote in our poll too. Which one do you most want to actually sit down and watch again? Because I'd take any of them.

[thequadge]

Plainly having had enough of getting fans ostensibly yawning at their pick of rather recent races, F1.com have decided to open their cupboard of race goodies a little wider this time. Possibly also while muttering 'Fine. Fine! YOU pick one, ya little jerks. Freaking kids!'

 

So yes, you, YOU! get to go over to f1.com and vote for one of the following races to be shown on YouTube on Wednesday 08 Apr at a time, well to be announced I guess - I didn't see it. 

These are the choices you can vote for:

 

https://www.formula1...2tA67OkghZ.html

 

Choices:

 

1. 1997 European GP (Villeneuve vs Schumacher take the roof off in an unforgettable season finale)

 

2. 1996 Spanish GP (Things start to come good for Michael Schumacher at Ferrari)

 

3. 1987 British GP (Mansell vs Piquet and a cast of thousands)

 

 

Obviously you have to go the their site for your vote to count, but just for fun, why not vote in our poll too. Which one do you most want to actually sit down and watch again? Because I'd take any of them.

 

Do you mean Spain 96? 

[SophieB]

Yes! Sorry.

[TomNokoe]

I haven't been overly thrilled with F1's choices so far, although I did enjoy Australia 86 despite being massively sceptical.

It feels like they are choosing races with memorable moments rather than "classic" races (full of incident, action and excitement). Is there a distinction? I don't know.

My gut preference says:
Spain 96
UK 87
Eur 97

No way 1987 wins a public vote.

[Risil]

More Mansell!

[Bleu]

Spain -96 wasn't a great race in terms f excitement IMO. But it was absolutely magnificent performance. I could say same about Donington -93.

[TomNokoe]

Spain -96 wasn't a great race in terms f excitement IMO. But it was absolutely magnificent performance. I could say same about Donington -93.

Which is why it bugged me they ran Brazil 16 the other week. I literally drafted a whole rant about this a few days and then quickly realised it didn't really matter ... but yes!!

[PayasYouRace]

Jerez 1997 gets my vote. That was the first Grand Prix I attended so I never saw it on TV. Really great atmosphere at the circuit, or at least that's what the 10 year old me remembers. The cheers that lap that Schumacher didn't come round were incredible.

 

Silverstone 1987 would be my second choice. Everyone knows that moment, but it would be nice to see exactly how the race played out.

[Risil]

I watched a broadcast of Donington 1993 for the first time recently and I thought it was brilliant, albeit totally dominated by the tyres and the weather.

 

Spain 1996 I haven't seen since watching it on a small TV set in my Granddad's front room (he had a farm in Hampshire you literally see Thruxton from). I find races in bad weather mesmerizing just to watch the drivers do the tightrope act of extracting speed from absolute smoothness and precision. Plus there's always something to grab your attention when it starts to detach from the race in front of you.

[Risil]

(In that spirit, I'd also quite like to see the 2006 Chinese GP again.)

[jonpollak]

Jerez 1997 gets my vote. That was the first Grand Prix I attended so I never saw it on TV.

Holy Cow I was there too !!
Wish you had called me, I could have got you in the Rothmans Paddock club for lunch.
I still remember what they served.

Mushroom Risotto.
Chicken L'orange
Pistachio Ice Cream

Went to the after-party as well but I cannot remember anything about that...for some reason.

 

Here's the story of the race

 

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 03 April 2020 - 19:02.

[ANF]

I guess F1 Rewind will be going on for a while, eh? I think it would be a good idea to arrange the races from the Schumacher era* chronologically (Spa 1992, Adelaide 1994, Barcelona 1996, etc).
And that's why I voted for the 1987 British GP.

* especially the Benetton days and early years at Ferrari

Edited by ANF, 03 April 2020 - 18:33.

[TomNokoe]

Jp your posts seriously tickle me, you should write a book.

Jerez was also my first F1 experience, albeit 17 years later for 2014 testing. Fifth-life crisis, I think. I did share a plane back to Gatwick with a bunch of Merc bigwigs (Shov), but slept the whole way.

Edited by TomNokoe, 04 April 2020 - 13:24.

[Collombin]

Silverstone 1987 would be my second choice. Everyone knows that moment, but it would be nice to see exactly how the race played out.

Mansell's pitstop contains my favourite Murrayism of all time.

[messy]

I’d be happy with either Spain ‘96 or Jerez ‘97, not bothered which.

Sadly 1987 is just slightly before my era so much as I find all historical F1 fascinating I’d rather watch something I actually remember or at least might trigger some nostalgia.

Edited by messy, 03 April 2020 - 20:04.

[jonpollak]

Jp your posts seriously tickle me, you should write a book.

Jerez was also my first F1 experience, albeit 17 years later for 2014 testing. Fifth-life crisis, I think. I did share a plane back to Gatwick with a bunch of Merc bigwigs (Shov), but slept the whole way.

There's actually a really nice short that F1 did a couple of years ago to commemorate 20 years.

https://www.youtube....h?v=nt-3KT6ktHU

Oh Christ.. not the write a book thing again.
Yes Tom, I have a book... publishers won’t touch it.

Anyway you’re very kind.

PS. Did you click the ‘here’s the story’ link in my post ?
D’oh
Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 03 April 2020 - 22:27.

[Anuity]

The build up to Jerez was quite nice, the qualification as well. But the race, while tense, was kind of dull from what I remember.

 

Spain 96 is an easy one for me.

[FortiFord]

I was about 9 months old at the time of Silverstone 87. I can't comment on that. 

 

Spain 96 was good for the first quarter of the race. Once Schumacher took the lead and Hill crashed out it was fairly boring. Great to see a masterful drive, but the race itself is not that exciting. 

 

Europe 97 was a great slugfest between JV and MS. Lots going on behind but the director missed most of it. I voted for this one just to relieve the drama of that incident. 

[LucaP]

We are familiar with most official GPs, we know the result... what about some "non championship" races of the 70s and 80s?
We might be surprised by the result!

[Spillage]

I went for Silverstone '87 because it's the only one I haven't seen all the way through. Spain '96 was a beautiful drive but not a great race, so Jerez would be my second choice.

[PayasYouRace]

We are familiar with most official GPs, we know the result... what about some "non championship" races of the 70s and 80s?
We might be surprised by the result!

 

 

Non-championship races would be an interesting option, but I do wonder about how well televised they were.

[Risil]

I doubt F1 owns the rights to them anyway.

[PayasYouRace]

I doubt F1 owns the rights to them anyway.

 

I'd imagine they would for any in the FOCA era. TV rights were one of FOCA's biggest priorities.

[Pingguest]

I voted for the 1996 Spanish Grand Prix, because Schumacher proved himself the real (and new?) rain master!

[Pingguest]

Jp your posts seriously tickle me, you should write a book.

Jerez was also my first F1 experience, albeit 17 years later for 2014 testing. Fifth-life crisis, I think. I did share a plane back to Gatwick with a bunch of Merc bigwigs (Shov), but slept the whole way.

There's actually a really nice short that F1 did a couple of years ago to commemorate 20 years.

 

Yes, Michael Schumacher deliberately collided with Jacques Villeneuve. But the Canadian would never had made the corner without Schumacher, would he? If it was not Schumacher trying to get them both out of the race, it would had been a reckless Villeneuve taking the German out.

[PayasYouRace]

Yes, Michael Schumacher deliberately collided with Jacques Villeneuve. But the Canadian would never had made the corner without Schumacher, would he? If it was not Schumacher trying to get them both out of the race, it would had been a reckless Villeneuve taking the German out.

 

Yes, he would have made the corner. He wasn't divebombing that much. He might have missed the apex, but the Ferrari hitting his sidepod didn't keep him on the track. The collision clearly didn't slow the Williams down.

[Pingguest]

Yes, he would have made the corner. He wasn't divebombing that much. He might have missed the apex, but the Ferrari hitting his sidepod didn't keep him on the track. The collision clearly didn't slow the Williams down.

 

Oh well, what about the Ferrari?

[PayasYouRace]

Oh well, what about the Ferrari?

 

Michael could have got the cutback and denied Jacques the championship. But he chose to play dirty.

[Anuity]

As far as I remember it was confirmed by Ross Brawn that the car had mechanical issues prior to the crash and would not make it to the end anyways.

 

The crash is a total fault of Michael though, there is no way to defend him.

 

But I do think that the move itself from Jacques was a bit too optimistic/divebombing, I think he would not be able to overtake had Michael decided to act smarter.

[FortiFord]

As far as I remember it was confirmed by Ross Brawn that the car had mechanical issues prior to the crash and would not make it to the end anyways.

 

The crash is a total fault of Michael though, there is no way to defend him.

 

But I do think that the move itself from Jacques was a bit too optimistic/divebombing, I think he would not be able to overtake had Michael decided to act smarter.

 

I don't recall Brawn ever confirming a problem with the car. Do you have a source for that?

 

I recall Pollock (JV's manager) speculating that Schumacher had a water leak but this was always denied by Ferrari and Schumacher. 

 

I do remember that James Allen speculated in his book about Schumacher that he was looking after the tyres at the beginning of his final stint (since Ferrari had tyre troubles all year) whilst JV has confirmed that he was taking everything out of his tyres for the first few laps of that stint. 

 

As for the move itself, JV reheased the move after the first round of stops but was not close enough. This time he timed it to perfection and caught Michael by surprise. Great move. 

[Risil]

Jerez 1997 arguments already? They haven't even picked the race yet.

[as65p]

Jerez 1997 arguments already? They haven't even picked the race yet.

 

Chose Suzuka '89 or '90 if you're bored enough.

 

[PlayboyRacer]

I don't recall Brawn ever confirming a problem with the car. Do you have a source for that?

I recall Pollock (JV's manager) speculating that Schumacher had a water leak but this was always denied by Ferrari and Schumacher.

I do remember that James Allen speculated in his book about Schumacher that he was looking after the tyres at the beginning of his final stint (since Ferrari had tyre troubles all year) whilst JV has confirmed that he was taking everything out of his tyres for the first few laps of that stint.

As for the move itself, JV reheased the move after the first round of stops but was not close enough. This time he timed it to perfection and caught Michael by surprise. Great move.

Yeah I don't believe Ferrari or Schumacher have ever admitted that Michael had a mechanical issue. And it would have been a convenient excuse to use given his actions wouldn't it? Especially if it was a terminal issue.

My thoughts were it was always tyre related. Jacques was driving the wheels off the Williams, really charging prior to the clash but knowing his tyres would drop off quickly... while Michael seemed to be nursing his tyres a bit to preserve them thus giving him performance late in the race. So opposite approaches between the two. But Michael simply let JV get too close, as Eddie Irvine famously said 'the one driver who would have tried that pass was JV... because if he had one thing - it was big balls'.

The James Allen book, despite being about Schumacher, I thought sums up the Jerez weekend fairly and also the build up. Of particular note I thought was Schumacher being very wary of how tough Villeneuve was mentally. Given the games he and Ferrari then tried to play... their approach was interesting to say the least.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 07 April 2020 - 03:18.

[TomNokoe]

If Jerez 97 wins, it would be great if they could also replay qualifying. Won't happen, though.

[TomNokoe]

Jerez 97 wins


These F1 banners are really nice

Edited by TomNokoe, 07 April 2020 - 15:45.

[Risil]

Cool! I've never seen the segment of this race after The Incident.

[Marklar]

Sigh, I hate when they show races with a controversial outcome. Remember how they showed the 2008 Brazil GP a few years ago and Glock got abused by all those stupid new fans on twitter who had no idea about the actual context 

[garoidb]

I haven't been overly thrilled with F1's choices so far, although I did enjoy Australia 86 despite being massively sceptical.

It feels like they are choosing races with memorable moments rather than "classic" races (full of incident, action and excitement). Is there a distinction? I don't know.

My gut preference says:
Spain 96
UK 87
Eur 97

No way 1987 wins a public vote.

 

I watched Australia 1986 as live too, for the first time since it happened. I think it had a lot of tension, as Mansell was never that comfortable until Rosberg went out. I had vaguely remembered that he spent most of the race quids in for the title, but he didn't (allowing for the much anticipated McLaren team order). It wasn't wheel to wheel action, and it rarely was back then, but the race unfolded with a fair bit of suspense. I think the 1987 British GP would be similar.  

[TomNokoe]

I watched Australia 1986 as live too, for the first time since it happened. I think it had a lot of tension, as Mansell was never that comfortable until Rosberg went out. I had vaguely remembered that he spent most of the race quids in for the title, but he didn't (allowing for the much anticipated McLaren team order). It wasn't wheel to wheel action, and it rarely was back then, but the race unfolded with a fair bit of suspense. I think the 1987 British GP would be similar.  

I generally think title deciders aren't that great to choose because the true excitement comes from the anticipation when you are watching it live... back in 1986. The title has already been won now (duh) so it loses some magic.

I know you can extrapolate this theory to individual races, but I don't think it's the same.

Individually crazy races like Monaco 96 (there are crazier races still) are much better choices IMO. Dry races preferred as well, or at least "mostly dry, nearly wet"

 

But hey, I'll take it. I've fallen in love with Murray's commentary recently, so it's a real blessing.
 

I also really want to watch Europe 1999  but would prefer it was replayed so the forum/community could participate.

Edited by TomNokoe, 07 April 2020 - 15:55.

[FortiFord]

ITV Special which aired on Saturday tea times. Gives a good summary of qualifying and a nice interview with Schumacher. 

 

Edited by FortiFord, 07 April 2020 - 15:58.

[PayasYouRace]

Sigh, I hate when they show races with a controversial outcome. Remember how they showed the 2008 Brazil GP a few years ago and Glock got abused by all those stupid new fans on twitter who had no idea about the actual context 

Fortunately Michael isn’t on twitter to receive the abuse he deserves, and Jacques is more than capable of handling the abuse he doesn’t.

[SophieB]

@glennfreeman39

'Thousands of votes were cast... over 44% of them went to the 1997 European Grand Prix'

 

I asked. The internet delivered. #grateful   #F1Rewind

[BuddyHolly]

Jp your posts seriously tickle me, you should write a book.

Jerez was also my first F1 experience, albeit 17 years later for 2014 testing. Fifth-life crisis, I think. I did share a plane back to Gatwick with a bunch of Merc bigwigs (Shov), but slept the whole way.

I agree and man wouldn't it be a riveting book!  C'mon JP, get on it.

[midgrid]

---------------------------------------------------------

Spotter's guide:

 

 

ERRATUM: That should be Minardi-Hart!

[PayasYouRace]

Please note. The race programme shows Gianni Morbidelli in the No.17 Sauber, but he will once again be replaced by Norberto Fontana. He's not likely to feature much in the race so don't get confused.

[FortiFord]

Fun fact: This was supposed to be the Portuguese Grand Prix at Estoril. However, the track owners didn't complete upgrade works to their facilities in time and therefore the race was moved to Jerez. 

[Risil]

That Tyrrell has an unusual way of connecting the front wing to the (front) nose. Anyone know what the story was there?

[PayasYouRace]

I don't know the story in terms of why they tried it, but it's clearly a case of experimenting in the wind tunnel and coming up with something that appears to work. This is the same Tyrrell that introduced the x-wings.

 

Having the single central mount probably has an advantage aerodynamically. Less drag both in terms of the profile of the mount and the interference that two closely positioned mounts would cause for each other. The major disadvantage is that it must be quite thick to be structurally strong enough. It also provides less structural stability by having a see-saw effect of the wing hanging on a single mount.

 

The only other car I know of that used that sort of wing was the 1998 Penske PC-27.

 

[Spillage]

Not the one I woulda picked but I'm sure it'll be fun regardless.
 

It's a shame they're not showing anything from qualifying - I'd love to see that crazy session, with the front three posting the same time and fourth-placed Damon Hill less than a tenth of a second behind.

[thefinalapex]

Fortunately Michael isn’t on twitter to receive the abuse he deserves, and Jacques is more than capable of handling the abuse he doesn’t.

In that sense what would have happend if twitter was around in the senna/schumacher years? It would have been mayhem after Japan 1990/ jerez 1997. The amount of abuse both of them would have got would have been overwhelming i think.