396 replies to this topic

[Derwent Motorsport]

Very sad indeed.  I was always intrigued that when Elliot was a small child that he never seemed to appear in public with his parents at events.  Did they decide to keep him away from motor racing, or just wanted to let him grow up as a non celebrity?  He now a successful chef in London. 

[Doug Nye]

From the BRDC just now:

 

With great sadness we must inform Members of the death last Saturday 18 March of Lady Susie Moss, the widow of Sir Stirling Moss OBE. She was 69 years of age, had been in declining health for some time and made her final appearance in public at last year’s Tribute to her husband at the Goodwood Revival.

Susie Paine first met Sir Stirling in Hong Kong, where she was born, when she was five years old. Her father worked for the Rootes Group, for whom Sir Stirling drove from time to time, and with whom he used to stay on stopovers when travelling to Australia. Stirling became a good friend of the Paines and kept in touch when the family moved to London. By then Stirling’s career as a Grand Prix driver had come to an end and his main preoccupation was the portfolio of rental properties in which he was closely involved on a day to day basis. By the late 1970s Susie was helping Stirling with maintenance and administration of the buildings and in due course became a director of Stirling Moss Limited. They married in April 1980 and were inseparable for the rest of their lives.

In his autobiography Stirling Moss My Racing Life, written in conjunction with Simon Taylor and published by EVRO in 2015, Stirling went on record about Susie’s role in his life as follows:

‘…I simply could not operate without Susie. She looks after me, organises me, travels with me on all my working trips around the world, knows where I have to be at any time, and never loses her sense of humour, even if I lose mine. She makes sure that my life works. Susie and I have been together for 38 years, married for 35, and she has never stopped being the best thing that bever happened to me.’

Even in his 80s, such was Stirling’s enduring fame that he was still receiving on average 20 letters a day. Susie answered all of them. As a couple Stirling and Susie were motor racing royalty, welcomed wherever they went and, by their charm, captivating generations of motor racing fans who were too young to have seen Stirling in his prime as one of the greatest Grand Prix drivers of all time. In 2008, 60 years after Stirling became a Member of the BRDC, Susie was invited to become an Honorary Member of the Club which was a source of particular pleasure not only to Lady Susie herself but also to her husband who invariably wore a BRDC badge at all the many events and functions which they attended.

Tragically, it came to an end when Stirling was taken ill while in Singapore in 2017. Over the next three years his health declined and he withdrew from public life. Susie never left his bedside throughout his illness. On Easter Sunday 2020 Stirling crossed the finishing line for the last time leaving Susie bereft. Her devotion to Stirling remained unwavering through her remaining years.

The BRDC offers its deepest condolences to Lady Susie, her son Elliot, her sister Tina, stepdaughter Allison and their grandchildren. Sir Stirling’s fame as a racing driver will endure for all time and alongside him in the memory will be Lady Moss, his most gracious, kindest and nicest wife about whom never a harsh word was heard.  

 

Amen.  DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 22 March 2023 - 15:30.

[Odseybod]

That's a very fine Obit of a rather lovely person.

 

.

[Doug Nye]

Spare a thought tomorrow (Thursday) morning for Elliot Moss, his wife Helen and their baby girl as his mother - Stirling's widow Lady Susie's - funeral takes place...

 

DCN

[Derwent Motorsport]

What there a reason that in his childhood Eliot never went to events or appeared with his parents ?

[Ralf Pickel]

What there a reason that in his childhood Eliot never went to events or appeared with his parents ?

Actually , I remember a veeery young Elliot accompanying his parents at Coys Silverstone, either 1995 or 96. The Moss family stayed in "our" hotel, having breakfast at the table next to us. At the time I was surprised Stirling Moss having such a young son.

[Roger Clark]

We should all be grateful for the years of happiness that Sir Stirling and Lady Susie gave each other.   RIP. 

[absinthedude]

Wasn't it simply the case that Elliot isn't much into driving....I have a recollection he trained as a chef? And that he looks a lot like his father. 

[Doug Nye]

Elliot's little - yet award winning - London restaurant is to be found here;

 

https://www.plurestaurant.co.uk

 

'Plu' is the name - 12 Blenheim Terrace, St John's Wood, London NW8 0EB.

 

Just like his father, Elliot punches way above his weight. 

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 24 April 2023 - 13:37.

[Rupertlt1]

Who have we here?

 

https://www.stilltim.../aaf/aaf719.jpg

 

https://www.stilltim.../aaf/aaf714.jpg

 

https://www.stilltim.../aaf/aaf732.jpg

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 21 January 2024 - 07:22.

[ReWind]

Making it easier for viewers...

 

[Rupertlt1]

First pic #9? looks like the Monaco FIII, George Hartwell:

 

https://500race.org/marques/monaco/

 

Note J.A.P. twin in foreground.

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 21 January 2024 - 09:26.

[cooper997]

Easter 1949 Goodwood, but I don't have the programme for full entry list.

 

S Moss blew up his 500, so 2 of the photos most likely the engine swap to the 1000.

 

May 1949 Iota shows 5 Austen May leading 2 Stan Coldham and 18 Bill Aston Coopers

 

 

Stephen

 

[Rupertlt1]

https://500race.org/... Easter Meeting

 

14 cars in Pic 3, one being pushed?

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 21 January 2024 - 10:07.

[68targa]

Here are the car numbers.

 

[Roger Clark]

First pic #9? looks like the Monaco FIII, George Hartwell:

 

https://500race.org/marques/monaco/

 

Note J.A.P. twin in foreground.

 

RGDS RLT

Number 9 was Colin Tipper's Monaco but he did not start.

[Rupertlt1]

Interesting thread re Marwyn (not many racing cars built at Wareham, Dorset):

 

https://forums.autos...c/85068-marwyn/

 

RGDS RLT

[Roger Clark]

Easter 1949 Goodwood, but I don't have the programme for full entry list.

 

S Moss blew up his 500, so 2 of the photos most likely the engine swap to the 1000.

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

Moss raced in, and won, a 5-lap handicap with the twin.

[Michael Ferner]

The man with the cigarette next to young Master Stirling just might be Francis Beart. And the face at the extreme right also looks familiar.

 

As an aside, Moss was one lucky fellow, having four mechanics work on his car! Talk about silver spoons and unfair advantages... 

 

 

EDIT: actually, make that five mechanics! There's an unattributed crop of hair over the bent back of the guy leaning on the left rear! 

Edited by Michael Ferner, 21 January 2024 - 13:46.

[Rupertlt1]

Moss raced in, and won, a 5-lap handicap with the twin.

 

https://www.stilltim.../aaf/aaf713.jpg

 

RGDS RLT

[GregThomas]

The man with the cigarette next to young Master Stirling just might be Francis Beart. And the face at the extreme right also looks familiar.

 

 

I've seen enough pics of Beart to be pretty sure that's not him. But yes, the face and hairline extreme right do ring a faint bell.

[Roger Clark]

 

 

As an aside, Moss was one lucky fellow, having four mechanics work on his car! Talk about silver spoons and unfair advantages... 

 

 

EDIT: actually, make that five mechanics! There's an unattributed crop of hair over the bent back of the guy leaning on the left rear! 

I doubt whether Equipe Moss employed that many mechanics. It was normal in those days to rally round when a rival needed help. 

[Rupertlt1]

I doubt whether Equipe Moss employed that many mechanics. It was normal in those days to rally round when a rival needed help. 

 

I had wondered whether the young tousled-haired chap was Peter Collins?

 

RGDS RLT 

[Roger Clark]

Peter Collins was there but didn't start the 500 race (Mon Ami Mate).

 

I wondered whether Moss might have decided to fit the twin after his engine trouble in the 500 race, but he is listed in the programme with the big engine in the handicap so it must have been planned. 

[JohnHowe]

Number 9 was Colin Tipper's Monaco but he did not start.

it was Claude Tipper, not Colin.

[Michael Ferner]

I've seen enough pics of Beart to be pretty sure that's not him. But yes, the face and hairline extreme right do ring a faint bell.

Agreed...
 

I doubt whether Equipe Moss employed that many mechanics. It was normal in those days to rally round when a rival needed help.

 
... and agreed!

[Roger Clark]

it was Claude Tipper, not Colin.

Thank you.  I got Colin from Robert Barker's Record of Motor Racing at Goodwood.

[Rupertlt1]

The man in pic #1, at right, white overalls, glasses, is Alfred Moss?

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 26 January 2024 - 20:08.

[Doug Nye]

Yes, exactly - 'Pa' Moss, Stirling's one-time Indy '500' contestant, chinchilla-breeding, dentist father (and part-time gofer/mechanic/sponsor/entrant). Essentially a hard-nosed but well-liked and respected figure within the contemporary motor sporting world.

[ensign14]

Alf got a second go at the 500 in 1925 as a relief driver for Herbert Jones, but it did not end so well...

[funformula]

 And the face at the extreme right also looks familiar.

 

 

 

My first thought was Keith Duckworth but that can´t be as he was just 16 by the time the photo was taken.

[Michael Ferner]

Oh yes!! Pa Moss!!! I knew I'd seen the face before, but didn't make the obvious  connection     

[Rupertlt1]

The man in pic #1, at far right, is Graham Whitehead?

 

RGDS RLT

[JohnHowe]

The man in pic #1, at far right, is Graham Whitehead?

No - it isn’t AGW.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
I doubt whether Equipe Moss employed that many mechanics. It was normal in those days to rally round when a rival needed help.

They 'employed' one, it appears from reading Doug's book, Stirling Moss - My Cars, My Career...

He was actually an employee of the Moss family farm at Bray. His name was Don Müller and he'd become a Prisoner of War. Prior to the war he'd worked as a fitter at BMW and he obviously had mechanical skills which helped the young SM quite a bit.

There's a photo of him on P26 of the book, but it's a bit mysterious. Obviously taken when Moss had the Mk IV Cooper (fuel filler ahead of the windscreen), it's described as being at this 1949 Goodwood and carrying No 4. so Müller was still with the team in 1950.

Perhaps Doug could shed some light on this, quite likely someone else has also found the error in this photo.

[cooper997]

Page 26 photo probably shows the Goodwood meeting on the day Stirling turned 20.

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

From reading pages 26 and 27, I'd say not...

 

It's a little unclear, but it seems that the Mark IV came in 1950, so it's very unlikely he ran it in 1949.

 

 

 

 

Edited to correct typo, I had put 1959 instead of 1950.

Edited by Ray Bell, 31 January 2024 - 21:29.

[Collombin]

The photo tallies nicely with the one on p34 of All My Races as being the Sep 1949 meeting (not that every photo in that book is exactly what it claims to be either!).

[Roger Clark]

I think Stephen and Collombin are right; it's the September 1949 meeting and the car has the 1000cc engine. I have another photo from that meeting showing Stirling, his parents and the car and it all looks very similar. the caption on my photo is not infallible, of course but it's the only meeting at Goodwood where he raced a 500/1000 Cooper with number 4. The race was for 2000/1100 supercharged cars (or formula 2 but he won.

[GazChed]

From reading pages 26 and 27, I'd say not...

It's a little unclear, but it seems that the Mark IV came in 1959, so it's very unlikely he ran it in 1949.

The Cooper Mk IV was the 1950 model and was used by Stirling to win the Monaco Formula Three race. Harry Schell was runner up in another Cooper MkIV and after the Formula Three race the 500cc JAP engine was replaced by a 1000cc JAP engine and took part in the Monaco Grand Prix thus becoming the first mid engined car to take part in a Formula One race.

[Roger Clark]

I should have added that Moss also drove 1,000cc Coopers in a handicap and the Formula 1 race at Goodwood in September 1949.  this may make him, not Harry Schell, the first to drive a mid-engined car in a Formula 1 race.  He retired in the handicap and borrowed John Cooper's car for the F1.  The photo in My Cars, My Career shows evidence of Mobiloil sponsorship so it's probably his own car.  The Autocar, 23 September 1949 has a photo of the start of the F1 race.  Moss's car has a filler cap ahead of the windscreen..

[GazChed]

Indeed Stirling Moss did take part in the Goodwood Trophy race at the Goodwood meeting on the 19th September 1949, even if his race in John Cooper's car only lasted two laps. So maybe Harry Schell should be named the first man to race a mid engined car in a World Championship Formula One race. And John Bolster's attempts to encourage the crowd to sing Happy Birthday to Stirling were unsuccessful was well...

[Tim Murray]

The discussion on whether certain cars are mid-engined or rear-engined now has its own thread:

Mid-engined or rear-engined?

[E1pix]

I was speaking to a friend today about track days passed, and a story emerged perfect for this thread.

From Larry Wood, a very successful driver in Formula Vee, Formula Ford, and 2-liter Can-Am throughout the 1970s:

“No, I did not win that Vee race, but I think you may enjoy hearing of my experience.

On the opening weekend of Road Atlanta in 1970, there was a Pro Vee race in support of the Can-Am race. I was a fairly-new driver at the time, racing an old Bobsy I had purchased from Jim Trueman, who had decided that he did not like the open wheels. Glen Sullivan had the Pole, and I had managed a 2nd place for the start. Stirling Moss had been doing pre-race promotion for Johnson Wax and the series. So, he was the pace car driver for the event.

We were in our cars on the grid when Moss backs the Mustang convertible into position in front of the grid. Apparently, he mistook me for the polesitter. He got out of the ‘Stang, comes back and squats down beside my car, and says “Hello, I am Stirling Moss. I’ll be driving the pace car.” I am totally starstruck, and thinking “No Kidding, Stirl! No introduction needed!!!”

He goes on to say “I’ll be watching you in my mirrors when we come off the Bridge turn. I want you to keep it up on the cam. Give me a thumbs up if you want me to pick up the pace, or thumbs down if you want me to reduce my speed.” I no longer remember how I responded, but I probably thanked him. I never gave it a thought that he was talking to the wrong driver, and had joined the real racing world in the course of two minutes.

So, off we go on the pace lap. I am still totally starstruck! Moss was waving to the fans and the fans were hanging on the fences waving at him. I am absorbing every second of it. This is big time stuff!

Now we come off Turn 7 onto the long straight and pick up speed. I began to feel a slapping on the left side of my face. Crap! In the heat of the excitement, I had failed to fasten the chin strap on my helmet. That yanked me out of the spell abruptly, and I quickly made the decision to pull off at the pit entrance if I could not fasten the strap by the time we got to the Bridge turn. We are cooking down the back straight, and I pulled off one of my gloves and held it between my teeth while I fumbled the strap through the D-Ring with my bare hand, yanked it tight and worked the glove back on my hand just as we made the Bridge turn. I felt like a damned fool!

John McGee won the race from a last place start since he arrived too late and missed qualification. I can’t recall where I finished, but I think in the top 4 somewhere.”

— Thanks for the great story, Larry!!!

Though Larry’s not definitively seen in this short and grainy video, here one is. Those were The Days…:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=3C0DBZ0Ck8I

[Tim Murray]

A Service of Thanksgiving for the life and work of Sir Stirling Moss will be held at Westminster Abbey on Wednesday 8th May 2024 at 11.00 am. Some tickets are available to the general public.

https://www.autospor...abbey/10589086/

https://www.westmins...r-stirling-moss

[JackburtonF1]

I assume that, in spite of the long bus ride, you will be there, Tim?

[Tim Murray]

I’m committed elsewhere on that date, Adam, but I’ll be there in spirit. You?