34 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

7) DEAD HEAT
7.1 Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together
and shared equally.
7.2 If two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to:
a) The holder of the greatest number of first places.
b) If the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places.
c) If the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) If this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit.

Assuming that over the course of the season, the drivers did indeed collect the same amount of results in the same positions, and the same amount of fastest laps... what criteria do you think the FIA would ‘think fit’?

[Kalmake]

Qualifying results. Some in the sport already think there should be points for it.

[Ivanhoe]

It will never happen.

[Risil]

There was speculation (possibly towards the end of 1997? or 2006?) that "such criteria" might've been a one-on-one sprint race between the two inseparable drivers. Could be worse!

 

Something like this happened in the 50cc category of Grand Prix bike racing in the 1972 -- for FIM point d) was adding together total race times for every race in that year's championship. So Angel Nieto beat Jan de Vries one of his 13 world championships by seconds.

[PayasYouRace]

Greatest winning margin?

 

Most fastest laps?

Most laps led?

 

Most laps completed?

 

Most laps completed ahead of the other driver in the tie?

[SophieB]

I propose to settle this with a race around the world, from New York to Paris!

[PayasYouRace]

There was speculation (possibly towards the end of 1997? or 2006?) that "such criteria" might've been a one-on-one sprint race between the two inseparable drivers. Could be worse!

 

Wasn’t that how the first BTCC title was decided?

[Risil]

I propose to settle this with a race around the world, from New York to Paris!

 

Meet me at Leicester Square at noon tomorrow! The Queen herself shall drop the chequered flag.

[Ivanhoe]

Something like this happened in the 50cc category of Grand Prix bike racing in the 1972 -- for FIM point d) was adding together total race times for every race in that year's championship. So Angel Nieto beat Jan de Vries one of his 13 world championships by seconds.

Of course Jan de Vries should have declared the winner riding a privateer Kreidler against the works Derbi of Nieto.

[Risil]

Of course Jan de Vries should have declared the winner riding a privateer Kreidler against the works Derbi of Nieto.

 

Racing is cruel!

[fridge46]

7) DEAD HEAT

7.1 Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together
and shared equally.
7.2 If two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to:
a) The holder of the greatest number of first places.
b) If the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places.
c) If the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) If this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit.

 

"And if no clear winner emerges from all of this, a two-man sack race will be held on consecutive Sundays until a champion can be crowned."

Edited by fridge46, 13 April 2020 - 20:32.

[Clatter]

I think they will do it alphabetically, omitting a,b,c,d & e.

[thegforcemaybewithyou]

Penalty points

[Bleu]

I would assume the criteria would be revealed before the final race if there was a chance to be equal points with equal positions, so drivers know what they need.

 

I remember very closely matched International F3000 championship in 2000. After 8/10 races Bruno Junqueira and Nicolas Minassian both had three wins, one second place, one fifth place, one seventh place and one DNF. Remaining results: Minassian 11th, Junqueira 13th.

 

Hungarian race was then won by Junqueira with Minassian 4th. That result other way round in the season finale would have given title to Minassian, but in the end he managed "only" 3rd place while Junqueira didn't score.

[eibyyz]

Somethingsomething...forwardvelocity...unladensparrow...somethingsomething...

[FirstnameLastname]

Rock Paper Scissors on the top of the podium...

I like the idea of a one on one race, a 2 man duel.... but something would doubtlessly ruin it like a Mechanical failure.

[Ivanhoe]

To be decided by a settlement between Ferrari and FIA with an NDA on the exact tie breaker 

[FirstnameLastname]

To be decided by a settlement between Ferrari and FIA with an NDA on the exact tie breaker

Like Malaysia 1999? 😄

[pdac]

Each competitor puts an amount of money, secretly, in a sealed envelope and delivers it to the FIA. Once all envelopes are delivered, the FIA will open them all and the one that contains the most money will be declared champion. The FIA will keep all of the money from all of the envelopes.

[ATM]

I propose to settle this with a race around the world, from New York to Paris!

Maaax! Push the button, Max!

[Beri]

Greatest winning margin?

 

Most fastest laps?

Most laps led?

 

Most laps completed?

 

Most laps completed ahead of the other driver in the tie?

 

Even tho how likely that would be as an answer, I think the FIA will find a way to c*ck even that up and declare the "wrong" winner.

[PayasYouRace]

Even tho how likely that would be as an answer, I think the FIA will find a way to c*ck even that up and declare the "wrong" winner.

 

What you mean is that no matter who they choose in a situation where either driver would be a deserving winner, people would moan about their favourite not being picked.

[Fastcake]

Declare a tie.

[Anderis]

If I'm not mistaken, in road cycling there's a rule that in a stage race, when two riders have identical time and identical stage placings, the one who finished higher on the last stage will wear the leader's jersey in the following stage.

 

This could be applied here too: a WDC would go to the driver who finished higher in the final race of the season. I would actually put this rule in place before the season so that everyone knows before the season that the final race will be potentially this bit more important and doesn't complain that it favours the driver who was behind in the standings.

 

It doesn't work if both contenders DNF in the final race- how unlikely it would be if they had identical finishing positions in previous races!

 

To make a tie impossible: if both contenders DNF, the one who completed more laps would be the WDC and if they both DNF on the same lap, the one who was on a higher position on his last completed lap would be the WDC. If they both DNF on lap 1, the one who started from the higher starting position would be the WDC. If they both don't set a legal laptime in Q... oh, come on. I know! Then take the result from the penultimate race of the season!

Edited by Anderis, 14 April 2020 - 11:39.

[Risil]

No reason why they couldn't share it, is there? It's not like it would keep happening and devalue the championship, and the sheer one-offness of it would probably be valuable press coverage in and of itself.

Personally I think the two-car sprint race idea has more to recommend it than resorting to increasingly random and irrelevant stats.

[BRG]

Wouldn't it be the team based nearest to Maranello?

[pdac]

What you mean is that no matter who they choose in a situation where either driver would be a deserving winner, people would moan about their favourite not being picked.

 

 

Declare a tie.

 

People will moan if they choose one. People will moan if they don't choose one. The only way to sort it out would be to have some sort of additional contest (e.g. a single lap at the final circuit, with the fastest takng the title)

Edited by pdac, 14 April 2020 - 12:55.

[PLAYLIFE]

The semi-final winner between Italy and the USSR in the 1968 Euro Championship was decided on a coin toss after 0-0 AET.

Any calculation based on results during the year is better than that!

[Beri]

What you mean is that no matter who they choose in a situation where either driver would be a deserving winner, people would moan about their favourite not being picked.

Was it that obvious?

[Fastcake]

People will moan if they choose one. People will moan if they don't choose one. The only way to sort it out would be to have some sort of additional contest (e.g. a single lap at the final circuit, with the fastest takng the title)

 

Yeah people will moan whatever you do. I just think in the incredibly unlikely event any drivers manage to deadlock to this extent over the course of 20 or so races they have obviously done just as well as one another, so a tie should be the fair outcome.

[John B]

There was speculation (possibly towards the end of 1997? or 2006?) that "such criteria" might've been a one-on-one sprint race between the two inseparable drivers. Could be worse!

Something like this happened in the 50cc category of Grand Prix bike racing in the 1972 -- for FIM point d) was adding together total race times for every race in that year's championship. So Angel Nieto beat Jan de Vries one of his 13 world championships by seconds.

Loosely related, around 1997 the idea of a head to head run off came up after the controversial wdcs that were decided by collisions. Then there was the Jerez incident - always wondered what would have transpired if JV was the one taken out.

[ARTGP]

Why is it not also filtered by who achieved the number of 1st places first? Like say once driver reached the 7 wins before the other? Atleast that’s how the countback works in qualifying.

[pdac]

Why is it not also filtered by who achieved the number of 1st places first? Like say once driver reached the 7 wins before the other? Atleast that’s how the countback works in qualifying.

 

It is - read the original post.

[ARTGP]

It is - read the original post.

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. I do not see anything in the first post that says the driver who reached 7 wins (for example) before the other driver reached 7 wins, shall hold the higher place in the championship in event of a tie.  In qualifying, the driver who sets the laptime first, is awarded the higher position. I figure the WDC and WCC should function in the same way.

 

Quote

7) DEAD HEAT
7.1 Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together
and shared equally.
7.2 If two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to:
a) The holder of the greatest number of first places.
b) If the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places.
c) If the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) If this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit.

Edited by ARTGP, 15 April 2020 - 01:54.

[pdac]

I think you misunderstood me. I do not see anything in the first post that says the driver who reached 7 wins (for example) before the other driver reached 7 wins, shall hold the higher place in the championship in event of a tie.  In qualifying, the driver who sets the laptime first, is awarded the higher position. I figure the WDC and WCC should function in the same way.

 

Quote

 

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

My guess is that the rule is worded in the way it is to save paper. They've said they will look back at the results. First they will look at the number of wins then, if that does not produce a clear winner, they will look at the number of seconds, then thirds, then fourths, etc. I think they probably felt (as most do) that this will surely provide a winner, but they could not be bothered to keep listing beyond that and the catch-all rule at the end probably just means that they will look at things further - which probably includes looking at qualifying results.