47 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

From his new ‘Dans Diary’...

https://twitter.com/...4672848896?s=21

Merhi... 🤨

Di Resta is someone I always wondered what the attraction was. He’s right, he always seemed on the edge of a ‘big team deal’... but I never thought it justified.

[Peat]

Why the raised eyebrow for Merhi?

[Clrnc]

Merhi is a bit of a weird pick but Ricciardo did explain why. 

 

I looked up Ericsson's career and actually in the Macau GP specified I noticed quite a few talents who didn't develop as it should be. Some of them are in FE now though

[Ross Stonefeld]

Bianchi is underrated? What? 

[TomNokoe]

Hamilton v Button 2010-12 (Suzuka only) ?

Man, close the thread already

Spoiler

2010 - Ham outQ Button, GB penalty. Still running ahead on Sunday but another GB problem forces him to drop back.

2011 - Ham provisional pole before missing start-finish to start second run. Beats Jenson into T1 before slow puncture end of first stint compromises strategy.

2012 - Undiagnosed suspension problem hampers Hamilton all weekend. Qualifies 1.1s behind JB and finishes 21s behind.

Can't help myself Ricciardo is talking rubbish

Edited by TomNokoe, 15 April 2020 - 13:08.

[Ross Stonefeld]

He talks about the 2011 season, not 10-12. Though the 11 season, while Button did very well, was more known for Hamilton's implosion and constant run ins with Massa. Hamilton beat himself as much as anything. 

[Marklar]

Bianchi is underrated? What? 

To be fair generally most drivers that are considered underrated are actually overrated or at least not really underrated.

Take Button for instance: he is mentioned every time. How is somebody underrated if he is always mentioned to be underrated, isnt this defeating the exact point of being underrated?

[Astandahl]

I agree with Ericcson. Lot of people said he was trash tier but i always saw a solid driver that improved through the years. In fact he did well against Wehrlein in 2017 who was considered a very talented driver ( and still is ).

[DutchQuicksilver]

Would have expected him to name Vergne as well. They raced very close to each other back in 2012 and 2013. And Vergne is showing in Formula E he wasn’t a slouch in F1.

[Risil]

To be fair generally most drivers that are considered underrated are actually overrated or at least not really underrated.

Take Button for instance: he is mentioned every time. How is somebody underrated if he is always mentioned to be underrated, isnt this defeating the exact point of being underrated?

 

Some drivers reach a level of fame where every possible opinion about them is held by some F1 fan somewhere.

[Sterzo]

To be fair generally most drivers that are considered underrated are actually overrated or at least not really underrated.

Take Button for instance: he is mentioned every time. How is somebody underrated if he is always mentioned to be underrated, isnt this defeating the exact point of being underrated?

With two likes so far, your post is underrated, perhaps because you've understated the overrated use of the word underrated.

[messy]

To be fair to Merhi in F1 he drove around in a car that was what, 5-6 seconds a lap off the pace and with a serious weight disadvantage to Stevens. He was a much better driver than he looked in that season. Really eye catching in F3 - and still on the podium in F2 18 months ago. One of those naturally gifted drivers who just never got a break. People say the same about someone like Robin Frijns but at least he’s got a good Formula E gig nowadays, Merhi’s been scrabbling around for scraps. I think he’s quite a big example of unfulfilled promise.

Di Resta was unspectacular but he routinely scored 40 ish points a season in a car that was slap bang in the middle of the midfield and I do wonder what else he needed to do to show people he was up to the job.

Liuzzi I always thought blew his big opportunity through arrogance and entitlement. He thought he’d made it, didn’t put in the hard work needed and Red Bull did what Red Bull do best and showed him the door. That first season in F1, he’d won F3000 at a canter and found himself seat-sharing with Christian Klein (who I think was pretty much the opposite - less talented but harder working), essentially an audition for a full time seat, and he lost it pretty fast. Wasn’t there a story about him not turning up to a test because he was waiting to get a sofa delivered? He seemed to knuckle down after that with Toro Rosso and Force India but the big chance was gone.

Edited by messy, 15 April 2020 - 17:39.

[SonGoku]

Am I the only one not interested at all in these kind of opinions? I guess Ricciardo must be very bored...it's the same the other way, ex-F1/teamboss/cleaner doesn't rate driver X because of the car...you can find those comments every day.

[Ivanhoe]

Apparently interesting enough to post in this thread 

[Ross Stonefeld]

Am I the only one not interested at all in these kind of opinions? I guess Ricciardo must be very bored...it's the same the other way, ex-F1/teamboss/cleaner doesn't rate driver X because of the car...you can find those comments every day.

 

I don't mind the perspective but this was a really tepid 'anyone could have said these things'. He doesn't name anyone shocking or provide any surprise insights. EXCLUSIVE: Button was pretty good

[Nemo1965]

The thing is, with these things, that my find my opinion about underrated drivers or overrated drivers kind of swings with the times. In the 80's I had the opportunity to meet some F1 drivers and a lot of people who worked in F1. In the 90's, as a journalist, I had the chance to interview F1-drivers and people working in F1. And now, through the internet, I have the opportunity to converse with people who used to work in F1 before I could go to races myself.

 

Sometimes drivers I thought were overrated really got the wrong end of the stick (Brian Henton, for instance)

Sometimes drivers I thought were incredibly unlucky were not so unlucky after all, just not as good as I thought them to be (Jan Lammers, Alboreto, Capelli)

Sometimes drivers I thought were world class material just were not that good (Jos Verstappen, Stefano Modena)

 

And perhaps my opinion about these mentioned drivers will change again once I talked with people who also worked with them... and have a different opinion about them than the others who worked with them...  

[SonGoku]

I don't mind the perspective but this was a really tepid 'anyone could have said these things'. He doesn't name anyone shocking or provide any surprise insights. EXCLUSIVE: Button was pretty good

Agreed, if you do stuff like this then give something really insightful, not things we know already.

World champion Button is underrated is a narrative we have heard for years now.

[Ivanhoe]

Some of you guys are living in another reality. Ricciardo has 1.7 million followers on Twitter. Maybe this isn’t interesting or informative for some of you die hard race fans, but it surely is for a lot of other people and a chance for them to get to know some other drivers than Lewis, Max, Seb and Dan. It’s just an effort to share some insight in his F1 experience for a broader audience, which should be applauded instead of ridiculed by the ‘elite’.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 15 April 2020 - 19:04.

[messy]

Exactly. It’s the perspective of someone who’s actually raced against these guys named, and it’s interesting. I have no idea what people’s problem with it is.

Not like we’re spoilt for stuff to talk about at the moment.

[thefinalapex]

Apparently interesting enough to post in this thread

He wouldn’t say that if Daniel mentioned lewis, he probably would have started this thread himself!😜

[Lights]

Hamilton v Button 2010-12 (Suzuka only) ?

Man, close the thread already

2010 - Ham outQ Button, GB penalty. Still running ahead on Sunday but another GB problem forces him to drop back.

2011 - Ham provisional pole before missing start-finish to start second run. Beats Jenson into T1 before slow puncture end of first stint compromises strategy.

2012 - Undiagnosed suspension problem hampers Hamilton all weekend. Qualifies 1.1s behind JB and finishes 21s behind.

Can't help myself Ricciardo is talking rubbish

 

Do you have biased summaries like that lying around for every GP? That's pretty endearing. 

[noriaki]

I don't mind the perspective but this was a really tepid 'anyone could have said these things'. He doesn't name anyone shocking or provide any surprise insights. EXCLUSIVE: Button was pretty good

Erm like what? It almost doesn't get anywhere more shocking than Merhi. Liuzzi and Ericsson are fairly under the radar picks as well. Or who'd you have liked him to mention to be truly shocking? Chilton?

[Spillage]

To be fair to Ericsson he did see of Nasr, who had quite a bit of hype around him at one point.

Di Resta never looked that good in F1 - beaten by Sutil and then beaten by Hulk. To be fair he was probably a solid midfielder, but teams aren't looking for solid midfielders. They're looking for future world champions.

[Dunc]

I never get why DiResta was and is so looked-down upon. He was fast and consistent and performed decently - if not spectacularly - at Force India. Mercedes had him down as a potential replacement for Michael Schumacher at one state IIRC. His performance didn't scream 'future WDC' but there are a lot of others you could apply that statement to.

[Peat]

Just thinking of the politics of this. 

Ricciardo is one of the top rated drivers in F1. He's gone from one of the better cars with a tier 1 team-mate (RBR/Max) to languishing in a midfield team where he didn't exactly blow his nearlyman team-mate away in 2019.

It could be a bit of self-protectionism "Look, I'm not crap all of a sudden. There are just alot of really good drivers in F1!". Of course, most of us tenured fans know that. I get fed up with F1-centric fans labelling X driver as 'crap' because they didn't quite cut-it in F1, when they are much closer to the top end of drivers (globally) than 99% of others. But for a fair chunk of Danny Ric fanbase, this could be the first time they've seen this happen. If he makes them understand that the difference between 'good' & 'crap' in F1 is TINY, then good on him. 

[Boxerevo]

He talks about the 2011 season, not 10-12. Though the 11 season, while Button did very well, was more known for Hamilton's implosion and constant run ins with Massa. Hamilton beat himself as much as anything. 

Hamilton implosion doesn't take anything from Button that season.

 

The unique bull crap is the three year championship. Nothing should be taken away from Button in 2011.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Button did very well, but within the context Lewis had a self-imposed bad season. 

[sopa]

It's interesting that Ricciardo considers Liuzzi underrated. Also when Vettel started his career, he was initially slower than Liuzzi.

 

I think here is a bit of "rookie bias" at play. Neither Ricciardo nor Vettel were at their best when they started out, so Liuzzi could look decent. However, against Sutil in 2010 Liuzzi looked like a fairly poor qualifier.

[NixxxoN]

From his new ‘Dans Diary’...

https://twitter.com/...4672848896?s=21

Merhi...

Di Resta is someone I always wondered what the attraction was. He’s right, he always seemed on the edge of a ‘big team deal’... but I never thought it justified.

Merhi is a very good driver who never had a proper F1 change nor proper equiment, plus he's a heavy guy so that didnt help either. He had a huge disadvantage vs the featherweight smurf Will Stevens

Edited by NixxxoN, 18 April 2020 - 08:44.

[NoForumForOldPole]

Bobby 💪

[Dicun]

He talks about the 2011 season, not 10-12. Though the 11 season, while Button did very well, was more known for Hamilton's implosion and constant run ins with Massa. Hamilton beat himself as much as anything. 

 

Oh God, not this again ... 

[Dicun]

Hamilton implosion doesn't take anything from Button that season.

 

The unique bull crap is the three year championship. Nothing should be taken away from Button in 2011.

 

Thank you. I agree with you on both points.

2011 - JB won fair and square. 2010-2012 - the three-year championship is obviously BS, and Hamilton lost way more through no fault of his own than those infamous 15 points during 2012. So while 2011 goes to JB, their time as teammates overall was won by Lewis - and this is coming from a lifelong fan of Button.

[Fatgadget]

Hamilton implosion doesn't take anything from Button that season.

 

The unique bull crap is the three year championship. Nothing should be taken away from Button in 2011.

In my view it does.

You only have look see the outcome today.

[Risil]

The unique bull crap is the three year championship. Nothing should be taken away from Button in 2011.

 

I just want to say that the "three year championship" is a delightful artefact from a bygone era and if there were a museum for specious arguments about F1 it would need to have its own gallery.

[messy]

Thank you. I agree with you on both points.
2011 - JB won fair and square. 2010-2012 - the three-year championship is obviously BS, and Hamilton lost way more through no fault of his own than those infamous 15 points during 2012. So while 2011 goes to JB, their time as teammates overall was won by Lewis - and this is coming from a lifelong fan of Button.

In qualifying, Hamilton was well up, too - something like 75% record over him.

Jenson did well, no doubting it, but the final points tally was about the only stat where he was ahead.

[Lights]

I just want to say that the "three year championship" is a delightful artefact from a bygone era and if there were a museum for specious arguments about F1 it would need to have its own gallery.

 

With the origin section stating that nobody really knows anymore how it exactly started or how it was used, while most of the gallery is allocated to people needlessly bringing it up many years later in random discussions just because they think it's funny.

[RPM40]

Very keen to hear his 5 most overrated drivers. 

[RPM40]

Thank you. I agree with you on both points.

2011 - JB won fair and square. 2010-2012 - the three-year championship is obviously BS, and Hamilton lost way more through no fault of his own than those infamous 15 points during 2012. So while 2011 goes to JB, their time as teammates overall was won by Lewis - and this is coming from a lifelong fan of Button.

While the three year championship may be irrelevant, for Button to even be in contention against Lewis shows he did perform very strongly.

[Marklar]

In my view it does.
You only have look see the outcome today.

It doesnt really.

While Hamilton may have been in a personal crisis in 2011, nowhere near as mentally strong as nowadays, and he did beat himself to a large extent it doesnt really take anything away from Button, since his stellar race performance certainly contributed to this to some extent.

Still I dont think Button is underrated

[Mohican]

Coming back to the original list, and getting off Button vs Hamilton, I just noted that Ericsson’s pole time at Macau 2009 stood unbeaten for 9 (nine !) years in equal Dallara F3 cars.

Now that is saying something. A whole lot, in fact. The very definition of “underrated”.

[noriaki]

It doesnt really.

While Hamilton may have been in a personal crisis in 2011, nowhere near as mentally strong as nowadays, and he did beat himself to a large extent it doesnt really take anything away from Button, since his stellar race performance certainly contributed to this to some extent.

Still I dont think Button is underrated

Whether or not something can be considered "underrated" or "overrated" is relative to the actual general rating of the thing that is being rated - and not to the amount of people thinking the thing is generally underrated or overrated as you suggest.

Went through the off season threads for best drivers of the 00's/10's. Put together, JB was 4th on two lists made by the members of this forum. Not one poster thought he was a top 3 driver. While generally he was being placed around the 6th-8th region on both threads. In stark contrast to this, Danny seems to indicate he thought Button was at least close to Hamilton's level... so it's really pretty fair of him to opine that JB is underrated.

Edited by noriaki, 20 April 2020 - 08:30.

[Risil]

Very keen to hear his 5 most overrated drivers.

We'll save that for Lockdown Year 2

[Dratini]

Mental fortitude is just as important as anything else in F1, so why the caveats on Button's 2011 season? He kept it together and Lewis didn't.

[thefinalapex]

Very keen to hear his 5 most overrated drivers.

I will take a wild guess,

Hamilton
Vettel
Verstappen
Bottas
Leclerc
😜

[Dratini]

Would have expected him to name Vergne as well. They raced very close to each other back in 2012 and 2013. And Vergne is showing in Formula E he wasn’t a slouch in F1.

I wonder what the relationship is like between he and JEV. I vaguely recall Vergne being vocal when Dan got the RBR seat over him for 2014.

[Baddoer]

I agree with Ericcson. Lot of people said he was trash tier but i always saw a solid driver that improved through the years. In fact he did well against Wehrlein in 2017 who was considered a very talented driver ( and still is ).

It's amazing. Think about it, Ericsson's F1 carreer lasted for five years.

Incredible.

[Marklar]

I will take a wild guess,

Hamilton
Vettel
Verstappen
Bottas
Leclerc
😜

I doubt that he would take his former team mates.

Though the others are possible I guess, especially Bottas since he got better career opportunities than him after they were rivals in feeder series

[Sterzo]

Daniel Ricciardo's most underrated opponent? Nick Tandy.

 

Daniel won the British F3 championship in 2009, driving for five car superteam Carlin. In the first seven rounds he scored three wins, a fourth, two fifths, and shunted once.

 

Nick Tandy drove the single car of Joe Tandy racing. (Transit van with a side awning, no marqueer or plastic floor tiles). In those races his placings (not in order) were 1,2,3,5,6,8,14 and DSQ. His brother and team owner Joe died as a passenger in a road accident just before the Rockingham round, where Nick won. He lay second in the championship to Ricciardo at this point. Nick did one more round then packed it in.

 

He focused on continuing Joe Tandy Racing in Formula Ford, the driver being the brilliant and enthusiastic Josef Newgarden. Tandy later rebuilt his career, willing to drive anything anywhere. Unlike Ricciardo, he's raced a Citroen 2CV at Anglesey, and won Le Mans with Porsche. What might have been?