700 replies to this topic

[thequadge]

Numerous reports are now indicating Sebastian Vettel is to re-sign at Ferrari. This seems like very surprising news unless it is on severely reduced financial terms after last years performance against LeClerc. I was expecting Ferrari to move on with LeClerc as No1 driver as he clearly showed he was at least as good as Vettel already last year and he is still on the upward curve of his career while Vettel's stock has been on a downhill slide since 14. Unless Seb is happy to take the Kimi role of clear no 2, this seems likely to cause conflict as Vettel will think he should be considered at least equal no 1 based on history even if performance indicates otherwise.


Thoughts?

Edited by thequadge, 18 April 2020 - 16:35.

[Risil]

Do you mean resign or re-sign?

[thequadge]

Do you mean resign or re-sign?

 

Re-sign, Can't edit the title 

[Risil]

Done! I nearly fell off my chair with the suggestion that Vettel is about to retire

[thequadge]

Done! I nearly fell off my chair with the suggestion that Vettel is about to retire

Thanks!

[Zilbert]

Leclerc is still a bit rough around the edges, these claims that he should be undisputed nr 1 are premature to say the least.

[BRG]

No surprise.  Vettel hasn't got any other options except to resign/re-sign.

[Marklar]

With Coronvirus it's a no-brainer now imo. Same goes with Bottas staying at Merc. And maybe even Albon at RB. The other drivers will simply run out of races to prove themselves.

[Slackbladder]

With Coronvirus it's a no-brainer now imo. Same goes with Bottas staying at Merc. And maybe even Albon at RB. The other drivers will simply run out of races to prove themselves.

 

I agree. With things being so uncertain, the teams will want to stick with what they know on things they can control..which are things like the drivers. 

[FirstnameLastname]

Especially if the 2020 season does indeed roll on into 2021.... chances are there won’t be much of a gap between the end of the season (if it happens) and the start of the 2021 season.

I imagine a lot of 1yr contract extensions will take place. Especially with the rule changes being put back a year.

[JHSingo]

Damn. I was hoping for some blockbuster to shake up the status quo, like Hamilton moving to Ferrari. It's a while since the sport has had one of those, and would be most welcomed imo.

[krapmeister]

What's that old saying again? Something about insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?....

[baddog]

Charles was pretty good, but 

 

a: They cheated extensively so the results are overinflated.

c: Stability is good in uncertain times.

[messy]

If you accept that the Vettel of 2019/20 is not the force of nature Vettel from the Red Bull days but a solid, experienced and quick driver capable of pushing Leclerc and scoring big points, then why on earth would Ferrari change anything? He’s the Ricciardo to Leclerc’s Max.

[1Devil1]

If you accept that the Vettel of 2019/20 is not the force of nature Vettel from the Red Bull days but a solid, experienced and quick driver capable of pushing Leclerc and scoring big points, then why on earth would Ferrari change anything? He’s the Ricciardo to Leclerc’s Max.

 

This, and it is unclear if Leclerc hits the mark in his second season for Ferrari as well. Vettel is a safe bet. Ferrari just needs to manage their drivers better. 

[baddog]

If you accept that the Vettel of 2019/20 is not the force of nature Vettel from the Red Bull days

 

Or if you think he might still turn it on, I mean he showed he still has the speed to match one of the two fastest kids on the grid. Basically Ferrari would gain nothing by changing (barring being able to hire Lewis Hamilton of course but thats not on the table).

 

Maybe one day we will see, 2021 perhaps lol.

[PlayboyRacer]

Keeping Vettel at the cost of peanuts is a no brainer for Ferrari, especially with how this year has turned out.

[wj_gibson]

I think the driver line ups will remain static and we may have a situation whereby we have either a single 2020/21 “super season” or else they fudge it so that 30 or so races across 2020 and 21 are divided into two blocks of 15, with a champion at the end of each block (and we have a 2020 champion declared at the 2021 Spanish or Monaco GP and then turn up two weeks later to start the next “season”).

[Victor]

Keeping Vettel at the cost of peanuts is a no brainer for Ferrari, especially with how this year has turned out.

How do you know it is at cost of peanuts? How much is it?

[PlayboyRacer]

How do you know it is at cost of peanuts? How much is it?

Not sure but it's been reported it's a one year extension with a substantial pay cut. Given Vettel has underperformed significantly it makes sense plus he's hardly in demand.

However on a much reduced salary, even if he can't match Leclerc, it's sound business for Ferrari. A 4x champion with loads of experience and gives them stability and a rear gunner for Charles. If he explodes again into team leading and winning form - even better for Ferrari. He's a steal.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 19 April 2020 - 08:28.

[Victor]

As long as they manage their drivers properly, which I am not sure Ferrari is capable of.

[baddog]

Not sure but it's been reported it's a one year extension with a substantial pay cut. Given Vettel has underperformed significantly it makes sense plus he's hardly in demand.
 

 

Talk about turning things around to suit your preconceptions eh?

 

The actual story:

 

"With teams facing a financial hit because of the lack of racing, a number of highly paid stars have taken pay cuts to ease the burden they have right now.

 

Vettel said he was aware of what others had done, and was engaged in discussions with his bosses about how to best deal with the matter."

[PlayboyRacer]

That's a different matter. We are talking about his possible Ferrari extension, not his current contract and the impact of Coronavirus on 2020.

But surely you knew that?

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 19 April 2020 - 09:58.

[Marklar]

How do you know it is at cost of peanuts? How much is it?

Sky Italy were talking about 15 m, which is about a 60 % paycut (but still more than Leclerc earns). For the next year obviously, what sort of paycut drivers will take now due to Corona is unknown.

Though obviously no idea if that supposed contract offer of Ferrari is lower than it would have been without the current crisis, might well be.

[1Devil1]

Not sure but it's been reported it's a one year extension with a substantial pay cut. Given Vettel has underperformed significantly it makes sense plus he's hardly in demand.

However on a much reduced salary, even if he can't match Leclerc, it's sound business for Ferrari. A 4x champion with loads of experience and gives them stability and a rear gunner for Charles. If he explodes again into team leading and winning form - even better for Ferrari. He's a steal.

Vettel is not in a postion for high demands. He made a lof of money already, he cares more about winning it, with Ferrari I guess. Ferrari has a great prospect with Leclerc and Vettel still

 

has the speed as we have seen last year. No brainer to keep him with the Corona situation.

[baddog]

I obviously missed the story you refer to. My bad

Edited by baddog, 19 April 2020 - 10:19.

[Anuity]

I think Seb will stay. The paycut is understandable based on his/Leclerc perfomances and the current situation.

I don't think it will be lower than Lecler's though as I cannot imagine Vettel agreeing to such humiliation and Ferrari does not need an upset driver. He is still not in the territory of Kimi 2014-2018 pace wise.

I could imagine Ricciardo would take that cheap for even less money, but my bet is that Ferrari keeps Vettel.

[MikeV1987]

No team is going to want to rock the boat at this time. An extension is pretty much inevitable.

[AlexPrime]

Who knows, maybe the long, very long pause will recharge him.

[absinthedude]

Stability in difficult times. While I am a critic of Seb, he's still able to pull some great performances out of the bag when his mind is in the right place. The idea that Ferrari could evaluate him further during 2020 and perhaps woo Daniel Ricciardo isn't viable now. Equally Dan isn't able to evaluate the odds of Renault Vs Ferrari in 2021 Nobody knows when the season will start, how long it will be, which tracks it will involve or even if there will be a 2020 season. LeClerc may well be suffering for not racing in 2020 and is still a rough diamond. Having Seb on board for one more year could well make sense in these turbulent times. There's nobody else who'd definitely be better and it doesn't look like we currently have the chance to evaluate anyone who's up and coming. The 2021 season could well be disrupted or shifted in the calendar too. An "old pro", even one with chinks in his armour, could well be better than taking a gamble on someone else. 

[ARTGP]

15 million a year? Poor sod. Don’t they know he’s got a family to feed.....

..in all seriousness...Cry me a river lol. If he’s not happy with that, I’ll take it ;)

Edited by ARTGP, 20 April 2020 - 13:42.

[Slackbladder]

Stability in difficult times. While I am a critic of Seb, he's still able to pull some great performances out of the bag when his mind is in the right place. The idea that Ferrari could evaluate him further during 2020 and perhaps woo Daniel Ricciardo isn't viable now. Equally Dan isn't able to evaluate the odds of Renault Vs Ferrari in 2021 Nobody knows when the season will start, how long it will be, which tracks it will involve or even if there will be a 2020 season. LeClerc may well be suffering for not racing in 2020 and is still a rough diamond. Having Seb on board for one more year could well make sense in these turbulent times. There's nobody else who'd definitely be better and it doesn't look like we currently have the chance to evaluate anyone who's up and coming. The 2021 season could well be disrupted or shifted in the calendar too. An "old pro", even one with chinks in his armour, could well be better than taking a gamble on someone else. 

 

I would still have him in the 'current' top 5 drivers.

 

Below Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc for sure now. Probably below Riccardo. The others (Norris, Albon, Sainz, Russell and maybe others) still have a lot to prove, so it makes sense for now.

[baddog]

I would still have him in the 'current' top 5 drivers.

 

Below Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc for sure now. Probably below Riccardo. The others (Norris, Albon, Sainz, Russell and maybe others) still have a lot to prove, so it makes sense for now.

 

Id put him below hamilton, below 2019 edition 'stable' Verstappen, even with Leclerc.  Everyone else is pretty hard to compare or irrelevant.

[ARTGP]

Id put him below hamilton, below 2019 edition 'stable' Verstappen, even with Leclerc.  Everyone else is pretty hard to compare or irrelevant.

 

   the elusive chanteur....

[baddog]

   the elusive chanteur....

 

I have to confess for the first time in many years I don't actually get what you mean? Something about me finding it hard to acknowledge how good he is? Probably fair if so.

 

I hope it was clear that I just want to see him keep it up when things get really hot, hopefully through the championship race he richly deserves to be in.

[HeadFirst]

Who knows, maybe the long, very long pause will recharge him.

 

Very possible, or perhaps he has considered his position carefully and decided that if Charles is indeed the faster and more consistent of the two, then being a #2 at Ferrari is not a bad place to be. I look forward to the battle, whenever that may be.

[kosmos]

Seems reasonable but Ferrari will be crazy if agree to something more than one year contract.

[Anuity]

They have been articles today saying that Vettel said "no" to Ferrari's initial offer of a 1 year contract and same salary as Leclerc.

Let's in a way I could understand it, paycut is one thing, but dropping it so much and only for one year surely won't make him feel happy needed in the team.

[Lennat]

Because he isn't really "needed" by them anymore. Leclerc looked faster and scored more points last year, so...

 

It was very different when he was the only reasonable replacement available for Alonso five years ago. Now they know Leclerc can be their lead driver and any sort of "proven and decent but no superstar" level driver such as Sainz/Perez/Magnussen/Hulk (I'm not actually saying any of these are as good as Vettel) or whatever can be a good enough number two. Or go for Ricciardo who I would actually expect to have a small edge on Leclerc (but that is just my gut feeling and I could well be wrong).

[FortiFord]

They have been articles today saying that Vettel said "no" to Ferrari's initial offer of a 1 year contract and same salary as Leclerc.

Let's in a way I could understand it, paycut is one thing, but dropping it so much and only for one year surely won't make him feel happy needed in the team.

 

 https://www.planetf1...ernando-alonso/

 

The best bits:

 

The contract was only for 2021 and came with a hefty pay cut.

 

According to Gazzetta dello Sport, the German has turned it down.

An insider claimed that Vettel felt the offer was a “joke” with media grabbing onto his recent “three-year deals” comments to support this.

 

Now F1-Insider says Fernando Alonso is also in the mix.

The Italian publication said: “Even ex-World Champion Fernando Alonso (38) is positioning himself to replace the four-time World Champion from Germany, according to information from F1-Insider.com.”

[jjcale]

SV cost Ferrari so many points over the past few years, it should be like the oil price .... he should be paying them to drive. 

 

Or if they dont want to make it too stark - they could pay him per point like Redbull allegedly used to do - and deduct from his pay if he lost them points - with double deductions for spins. 

[Marklar]

He certainly wont get more than that proposed salary (or thereabouts), his value simply isnt this high anymore and the current crisis isnt helping. A more performance-based contract would make sense.

What's more understandable is the contract length. While Vettel's value dropped he hasnt reached Kimi or Massa (or, a bit higher, Bottas) regions yet where you need to re-evalute every year whether he is still good enough. He certainly will be good enough for another few years as a number two minimum. But I can also understand Ferrari from the POV that this team battle could blow up and then being able to release Vettel would be helpful. As well as them trying to keep the options open if one of their juniors is ready soon enough.

Edited by Marklar, 22 April 2020 - 10:21.

[Augurk]

I agree with Marklar. Salary will suffer for anyone currently in a renegotiation phase. On top of that Ferrari have a new star they are obviously grooming to become what Vettel was when he joined a few years ago. 

 

Whilst I can see the argument from Ferrari's side for a one year contract, it's only because of the possible team mate issues. Vettel has underdelivered a couple of times for a world champion, he's still way up there in terms of raw speed. I think Leclerc is blisterlingly fast, but Vettel was still up there with him. I don't actually see many drivers that would be an improvement over him for Ferrari. Who would they replace him with?

[jjcale]

The main beneficiary of keeping SV around will be AG or young MSC ... or if SV can last long enough, we could have the first team of two brothers. 

[Augurk]

The only way I can see AG reach Vettels level is if AG keeps improving and Vettel keeps declining. 

MSC I don't think will be ready for Ferrari for a few more years, if ever.

 

No idea how good Leclercs brother is doing but as you imply this must also take a few years at least.

 

In the current crop I see no available drivers that will definitively be better than Vettel. 

[FortiFord]

I agree with Marklar. Salary will suffer for anyone currently in a renegotiation phase. On top of that Ferrari have a new star they are obviously grooming to become what Vettel was when he joined a few years ago. 

 

Whilst I can see the argument from Ferrari's side for a one year contract, it's only because of the possible team mate issues. Vettel has underdelivered a couple of times for a world champion, he's still way up there in terms of raw speed. I think Leclerc is blisterlingly fast, but Vettel was still up there with him. I don't actually see many drivers that would be an improvement over him for Ferrari. Who would they replace him with?

 

My guess is Ricciardo since he proved himself to be faster than Vettel when they were teammates. 

 

But it really depends on what Ferrari wants. Do they want an obedient number 2 who will not cause team issues and not trouble Leclerc too frequently. Or do they want two equally matched drivers who will fight each other. 

[Marklar]

We do have to consider here that Ferrari has five drivers in F2 and another one at Alfa, and one of them (Mick) will certainly get the Ferrari seat the moment he looks (if that ever happens of course) to be somewhat ready for it (even if only as a number two). With that in mind a three years contract for Vettel (as apparently demanded) could put them in an awkward position.

I assume they will end up at a 2 years contract, or 1+1.

[Lennat]

Yeah, it depends what Ferrari wants. The only alternative generally seen as an improvement would be Ricciardo. Alonso COULD be an option, but that is less clear after 2 years off, and even as a huge Alonso fan I don't really think really need him at this point. But if he offers himself cheaply for one year, who the hell knows? But realistically, it is Vettel for way less money than before, RIcciardo for less than he earns at Renault today, or someone from the midfield as a number two.

[Augurk]

My guess is Ricciardo since he proved himself to be faster than Vettel when they were teammates. 

Well, if that year was actually representative for their relative pace that doesn't bode very well for Leclerc actually. If Ricciardo > Vettel by that margin, where does that leave Leclerc when faced up against Ricciardo, or god forbid, Verstappen down the line?

But I doubt it. Vettel has usually been lightning quick throughout his career, except in 2014. There was something amiss that year, either because of the ban on EBD, or lack of energy after 4 title years or - if you fancy to believe in the intrigue - his ambition to activate the escape clause in his contract in order to sign with Ferrari.

 

I wouldn't bet on it that Ricciardo is definitely the faster driver than Vettel. 

[thefinalapex]

If Ferrari want a number 2 they should go shop in the perez/hulkenberg/Giovinazzi bracket. Vettel and Ricciardo are too good to be a number 2. If they get Ricciardo in they would get the same as with Vettel, a driver that can beat leclerc.