20 replies to this topic

[moffspeed]

I've just finished restoring a 1950's Dinky "Le Mans Gift Set" (#151). Well, you need something other than white wine to keep you going during lock-down.

 

Typical of Dinky you get a peculiar selection of cars.  An over-scale Cunningham C5-R, a Connaught streamliner, a Merc - but it is a GP streamliner, a strangely petite D-type and a very very basic model of a Bristol 450.

 

It got me thinking about the Bristols. OK 1953 Le Mans wasn't brilliant for them but in '54 and '55 they totally dominated the 2 Litre class with a 1-2-3 finish and 7th/8th/9th overall both years.

 

Has there ever been a more successful ugly car at Le Mans or elsewhere ?

 

 

[arttidesco]

Ugly ,,,,, really ?

 

 

For my money the futuristic Bristol 450 ....

 

 

with its ultra recessed headlights....

 

 

, rear lights...

 

 

and long sleek lines makes even the much vaunted D-type 

 

 

look a bit of a Yorkshire pud.... IMHO 

 

 

 

[moffspeed]

Apologies, quite agree that the '55 car was a different animal but the '54 Coupe version was the ugly duckling. However, despite its looks, it was deadly effective. Apparently it was super-stable on the Mulsanne and the other 2 Litre cars couldn't get near its lap times. Makes you wonder how things could have evolved if the '55 tragedy hadn't happened and Bristol had developed both chassis and power unit further. 

 

The evolution from Coupe to Roadster reminds me of Panoz a few decades later...

[moffspeed]

..although if someone twisted my arm and said I had to take one of them home and park it in my garage it would have to be the Yorkshire pud...

[Vitesse2]

Well, if you really want ugly ...

 

http://www.f1grandpr...delahaye-145-2/

 

Comotti's Delahaye 145 in the 1938 Mille Miglia. He retired, although Dreyfus finished fourth in another one. Dreyfus also used the first one to win the Fonds de Course's 'Race for the Million' and even won the first two GPs of 1938 ...

 

Although success ended right there!

[arttidesco]

..although if someone twisted my arm and said I had to take one of them home and park it in my garage it would have to be the Yorkshire pud...

 

I'd gladly take a 450 home in any configuration over the Yorkshire Pud, probably take the Healey Duncan Drone home in preference to it too ;-)

[Lee Nicolle]

Ugly ,,,,, really ?

 

 

For my money the futuristic Bristol 450 ....

 

 

with its ultra recessed headlights....

 

 

, rear lights...

 

 

and long sleek lines makes even the much vaunted D-type 

 

 

look a bit of a Yorkshire pud.... IMHO 

An attractive car, to me not quite beautifull but it seems to have some more modern parts such as the recessed tailights etc.

Wide 5 [Ford V8] style rims is unusual for an English car

[DUFFY]

This is the “Jehu”, this car was based on a Jowett Jupiter chassis with a Riley engine and gearbox and was originally built and raced by John Horridge with a Rochdale Alloy body

(designed by John, not by Rochdale Motor Panels) and registered BEN 775.

 

The car and Johns claim to fame was 2nd place in “The 24hr Bol d’Or” on the 30th May 1954 at the Autodrome de Montlhéry. Had they not stopped for extra fuel at the start, they may well have won.

The car was notoriously scruffily presented and poorly prepared, Horridge came storming into the pits, slammed on his brakes and juddered to a stop while both headlights popped out of their mountings

to dangle from their wires, having never been screwed-in securely. (before the headlight covers)

 

In 1956 the car had been fitted with a Healey 100 body tub, a Rochdale fibreglass nose and been re-trimmed, to be used as a road car. I would love to see a photograph of the car in this configuration.

 

 

Edited by DUFFY, 24 April 2020 - 09:24.

[moffspeed]

An attractive car, to me not quite beautifull but it seems to have some more modern parts such as the recessed tailights etc.

Wide 5 [Ford V8] style rims is unusual for an English car

Those wheels are faithful to the originals. A clever "star hub" is an integral part of the driveshaft assembly - so the "wheels" were just the rims/tyres as attached by the 5 peripheral bolts. Then the Bristol mechanics had a 5 armed wheel spanner to remove all 5 in one go I believe. A similar arrangement was found on the F2 ERA G type for obvious reasons.

 

The more I look at the Bristols (so to speak) I'll move from ugly to aesthetically challenged.

 

I'm still racking my brains for other ugly/successful cars. OK, its a bit extreme but Richard Noble's Thrust 2 was no looker but it got the job done. LSRs are a special breed but there have been some beautiful ones over the years...

[RCH]

Personally I believe the coupes were more attractive than the open cars, but then I've always had a soft spot for 1950's coupes.

 

Before we get too carried away about the performances of the Bristols it has to be said that they may well have finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in class in both '54 and '55 but in the latter year they were behind three 1500cc. Porsches overall.

[arttidesco]

Personally I believe the coupes were more attractive than the open cars, but then I've always had a soft spot for 1950's coupes.

 

Before we get too carried away about the performances of the Bristols it has to be said that they may well have finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in class in both '54 and '55 but in the latter year they were behind three 1500cc. Porsches overall.

 

But no other 2 litre cars could not keep up with the Bristol's so it mattered not that little Porsche's were quicker    

[La Sarthe]

In single-seater world, 1979 seems to have been a bit of a low point, at least in Europe.

 

I always thought the Ferrari 312T4 was a bit of a brick, whilst in Formula 2 the title-winning March 792 could best be described as functional.

[RCH]

But no other 2 litre cars could not keep up with the Bristol's so it mattered not that little Porsche's were quicker    

 

Err... if you say so...

 

Depends how you look at it really. In 1955 they were behind a 2 litre Gordini for half the race and a Maserati for most of that time. Don't get me wrong I am a great admirer of the Bristol 450 and I believe that they ran to a very strict schedule so perhaps were capable of running ahead of the other cars.But lets's get things right.

Edited by RCH, 24 April 2020 - 22:02.

[GreenMachine]

 

 

 

Lets get some rigour in here.

 

I reckon this has a TIU of .95 where terminal Ugliness = 1.00 

Edited by GreenMachine, 24 April 2020 - 22:27.

[Lee Nicolle]

Those wheels are faithful to the originals. A clever "star hub" is an integral part of the driveshaft assembly - so the "wheels" were just the rims/tyres as attached by the 5 peripheral bolts. Then the Bristol mechanics had a 5 armed wheel spanner to remove all 5 in one go I believe. A similar arrangement was found on the F2 ERA G type for obvious reasons.

 

The more I look at the Bristols (so to speak) I'll move from ugly to aesthetically challenged.

 

I'm still racking my brains for other ugly/successful cars. OK, its a bit extreme but Richard Noble's Thrust 2 was no looker but it got the job done. LSRs are a special breed but there have been some beautiful ones over the years...

They are Ford V8. These days known as wide 5s. Used a LOT in the US on lots of racecars and normally on aftermarket alloy hubs. And yes it is a rim with 5 lugs. The wheel centre is the hub.

Used quite a lot on road race cars in the past. A friend has a American RX7 using those on a road race car. Most of the parts are off the shelf Speedway Motors parts Brakes, hubs, wheels, quick change, uprights, wishbones., rack etc.

And we were supposed to be playing this weekend at  Historic Mallala but the Chinese exported us a pandemic. Though it is raining so would not have been as much fun. So I have worked all day.

[Ray Bell]

Lee, I guarantee you those Bristol wheels are on a bigger PCD than the Ford wheels...

 

And Volkswagen wheels too.

[arttidesco]

Err... if you say so...

 

Depends how you look at it really. In 1955 they were behind a 2 litre Gordini for half the race and a Maserati for most of that time. Don't get me wrong I am a great admirer of the Bristol 450 and I believe that they ran to a very strict schedule so perhaps were capable of running ahead of the other cars.But lets's get things right.

What I mean is having secured the 2 litre class lead Bristol had nothing to gain from getting involved with a race against the Porsche's, they were in the same race but not competing against one another, for publicity purposes a class win was all that Bristol were after ;-) 

[RCH]

What I mean is having secured the 2 litre class lead Bristol had nothing to gain from getting involved with a race against the Porsche's, they were in the same race but not competing against one another, for publicity purposes a class win was all that Bristol were after ;-) 

 

Yes I take your point, I believe the team prize was their goal, a bit like Triumph later, which tends to imply reliability which in turn means running to a strict schedule. It's just that in a little part of my brain I can see an imaginary Motor Show. Bristol salesman is extolling the virtues of the Bristol 404, telling the tale of a great Le Mans class win, when the man from AFN pops up and says "but they were beaten by Porsches, smaller, nimbler, far more the car for you Sir."

 

Oh well this lockdown is getting to us all.

[arttidesco]

Yes I take your point, I believe the team prize was their goal, a bit like Triumph later, which tends to imply reliability which in turn means running to a strict schedule. It's just that in a little part of my brain I can see an imaginary Motor Show. Bristol salesman is extolling the virtues of the Bristol 404, telling the tale of a great Le Mans class win, when the man from AFN pops up and says "but they were beaten by Porsches, smaller, nimbler, far more the car for you Sir."

 

Oh well this lockdown is getting to us all.

 

I some how doubt the Porsche and Bristol were really appealing to the same market segment, but I stand to be corrected ;-)

[Roger Clark]

I liked Denis Jenkinson’s report on the 1954 Reims 12 hours. On the day of the race: “the complete Bristol team standing about in their best clothes with their hands in their pockets, so ready and confident were they”. 

[Bumblyari]

Does anyone know the story behind the 450 coupé that was at Goodwood a week or two ago ?