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Each of the current F1 teams Worst/Best car?


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#1 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 17:15

I enjoyed this video by ‘The Race’ detailing their opinion on each of the current teams worst car.

https://youtu.be/Qa_FLHUvxUY

Worth a watch in these f1 barren times.

Also thought it might be worth a good discussion on what we deemed to be the worst and best cars from each team. Not necessarily purely based on the points tally/championship finishing position.

For McLaren I’d say the MP4/18 would be their worst car, purely based on the expectations that were piled into it before its absolute failure. It was so hyped up and then was a total dud.

I think the MP4/13 was one of their best cars, absolutely stunned the opposition. Hakkinen rates it as the best car he ever drove - the car that turned around things for McLaren at that point.

MP4/4 is obviously a standout car too- you don’t win 15 out of 16 races without being total class

They milked the M23 as well, perhaps that should get the nod for its longevity and its race win count.

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#2 messy

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 22:41

McLaren, I’d nominate the MP4/28 because they went from fastest car on the grid to midfield in one, extremely costly and you could argue unnecessarily radical redesign in the final year of the regulations. If they’d just gone evolutionary they’d have still been in a position to win races but they went fundamentally wrong (not for the first time) and it was a total dog wasn’t it.

Best - MP4/4, utterly brilliant.

Worst Williams - 2019, so bad it managed to beat the 2013 and 2011 sh*tboxes to the title. Best Williams - probably 1992?
Worst Force India/RP - 2008. Best - 2012, pace to win on merit a couple of times.
Worst Ferrari - 1993, maybe. Best - tie between 2002 and 2004 I guess.
Worst Mercedes - 2011, upper tier midfield and no more. Best - 2016, probably.
Worst Enstone - 2014, a total fail. Best - 2006.

Edited by messy, 02 May 2020 - 22:43.


#3 ATM

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 23:34

Sauber: best-2012, nearly won a race too. Worst: 2017.

#4 Myrvold

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 23:39

Worst Ferrari - 1993

 

1980.



#5 thequadge

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 23:59

McLaren Best Mp4/4 Best F1 car of all time, Worst M26 - Even Hunt couldn't more than 1 podium in it.

Williams Best FW14B - Utter sublime crushed everyone,  Worst FW42 - Basically a enhanced F2 car...

Renault  Best R25 - Alonso first title winner, Worst RS16 - Only picked up 3 points finishes all season

Ferrari    Best F2002 - Scored more points than everyone else combined! Worst  312T5 - Only finished 10th in the WCC

Red Bull  Best RB7 - Dominant Newey design, Worst  RB2 - Only scored 16 points.

Merc  Best W07 - Crushed all comers, Worst W03 - Roasted Rear tyres at a prolific rate, 

Racing point Best VJM10 - finished 4th Got more than double 5th in WCC, Worst VJM01 No points only beat Super Aguri

Alfa/Sauber Best F1.08 - Won with Kubica,Worst C33 - No points in the current down to tenth system.

Torro Rosso Best STR14 - Strongest most consistent performer ,Worst STR01 Basically a Minardi just 1 pt 

Hass Best VF-18, 5th in WCC, with 3 top 5's, Worst VF-19 Inconsistent performer that only beat Williams



#6 William Hunt

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 05:02

WILLIAMS:

 

I would say the Williams FW04 car (used in '74 & '75) was easily their worst, even though Jacques Laffite did manage a miraculous second place with it at the Nürburgring in '75, how he did that is still a mistery to me and it's the only good result that car achieved. 
The 2019 Williams may seem like their most dreadful car and in the current era it for sure is but the field is much closer these days than it used to be in the '80s for example (just have a look at how far Osella or Coloni were behind) and the fact that teams like HRT, Caterham or Manor aren't around anymore made Williams look worse last year because there wasn't a slower team around.

 

Williams best cars are hands down the FW14B ('92) and FW15C ('93) in which Mansell & Prost won the title their best cars. At the time Niki Lauda said of those cars that 'even a monkey could win races in it', two of the most perfect F1 cars ever build, and with active suspension.

 

FERRARI

 

Their worst car is easily the 'snowplow' 312B3 used in 1973 by Jacky Ickx and Arturo Merzario, the car was already ready very late (they started the first part of the season with the outdated 312B2) and when it was it looked hideous and was unreliable & slow. That Jacky Ickx still managed a 5th & 6th with it was only because of his sublime talent: that car was a dog. Ickx in the end left Ferrari (mainly because they missed races because of striking staff in the Ferrari factory, as a result Ickx had a guest appearance at McLaren in Germany and he scored a second place for them).

Ferrari's second worse car would have to be the 312 T5 from 1980 (driven by Scheckter & Villeneuve). Ferrari replaced their V12 concept by a V6 turbo engine a year later. Their F92 car from 1992 was a terrible car as well (much to the expense of Alesi & Capelli).

 

Their best car? Has to be the "sharknose" 156, 1961 edition, for me, their best looking one for sure. Phil Hill, Wolfgang von Trips, Richie Ginther, Ricardo Rodriguez and Belgian sportscar stars Olivier Gendebien & Willy Mairesse drove in it. 
Enzo Ferrari hated the sharknose models after von Trips died in one of them though, he had all of them destroyed, at least he thought he did because one of them survived (my brother who is a photographer actually did a photoshoot on that surviving car for a magazine a couple of years ago).
Schumacher may have had much more dominant cars in his Ferrari title winning years but let's be honest: those cars lack the sex appeal that the sharknose 156 from 1961 had.

 

McLAREN

 

Their worst cars have got to be the cars that Alonso & Vandoorne had 'the pleasure' to drive in 2017 & 2018 with the MCL32 the worst of those 2.

The M28 from 1979 was not exactly their finest hour either although John Watson still performed great in it but it wasn't a good car nor was their 1980 model.

 

McLarens best car I would have to go with the MP4/4, a legendary car from 1988.
 

The McLaren M23 was an amazing model as well, especially because it lasted so long. They started using it in 1973, it won two titles ('74 with Fittipaldi, '76 with Hunt) and was used until '77 and even until '78 in private pay drivers hands. The M23 was one of the finest cars ever made.
 

RENAULT

 

worse: their first F1 model, the RS01, although it wasn't that slow it's inovative Gordini turbo engine blew up all the time, it was nicknamed "the yellow teapot" by the British teams but those teams would stop laughing once Renault got the turbo engine fixed in later seasons...

 

Renault's 1985 car, the RE60, was a lacklustre effort much to the dissapointment of their fine driver line up with Patrick Tambay & Dereck Warwick: they deserved a better car. Tambay, with his stylish clean driving style, still managed two podia in it but that had more to do with his driving skills than with his car.
 

Their best car: Renault had really quick cars in the early '80s, on many occasions they scored pole positions or first row qualy spots but they weren't always that reliable so I would have to go with the R25 & R26 in which Alonso won his titles but the Michelin tyres were also a factor in that succes.

The cars they used in the early '80s are my favourite models though, simply because they looked so damn good and they look much better as todays F1 cars (the Ligier's from those days were sexy too).

 

 

MERCEDES

 

Best car:  the W125 from 1937, driven by the 'rainmeister' Rudolf Caracciola, Manfred von Brauchitsch, Hermann Lang, Christian Kautz (from Switzerland), Richard Seaman & Goffredo Zehender. 

I would place their W196 model from 1954-'55 equally first

They never build any realy bad cars really.

 

 

ALFA ROMEO

 

Best car: the typo 158. They started using it in 1938, it was the dominant post war car (with it's best driver initially Jean-Pierre Wimille) and won the title (with Farina) in 1950 and it's follow up model, the 159 did that in '51 with Fangio.
 

Worse: the Alfa Romeo 185T from '85, underpowered engine + terrible chassis, a waste of the fine driving talent of Riccardo Patrese and Cheever didn't deserve that car either.


Edited by William Hunt, 03 May 2020 - 05:28.


#7 blackmme

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:30

McLaren Best Mp4/4 Best F1 car of all time, Worst M26 - Even Hunt couldn't more than 1 podium in it.

 

Hunt won 3 races in the M26 in 1977.  I can certainly think of worse McLaren’s than that!

 

Regards Mike



#8 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:59

The Race can't decide if they're talking about the best constructor or the best team. Either talk about constructors but then you can't include Force India, or talk about teams and then the old works Renault shouldn't be there. So seeing as the title says teams, I'll go with that.

 

For me:

 

Mercedes: Best - 2016 W07, but it's a tough call with a lot of their recent efforts.

                  Worst - 2007 Honda RA107. After getting the first win the year before, they dropped the ball so badly they couldn't even beat Super Aguri using their old car.

 

Ferrari: Best - tough choice but I'd probably give it to the F2002. Enough said.

             Worst - There are plenty of bad Ferraris in F1 history. I'd nominate the 1973 312B3, but not the different car of the same name from the following year.

 

Red Bull: Best - Tough choice but I'd have to go with the 2013 RB9. Any car that can win 9 consecutive races must get the nod.

                 Worst - The 2000 Jaguar R1. After such promise and improvement as Stewart, it was all thrown away with that car. Even later Jaguars scored more often and occasionally reached the podium.

 

McLaren: Best - I can't give it to the MP4/4. It was the only really new turbo car of 1988 and had too many baked in advantages. I'd rate the MP4/5 above it. And overall I'd say the M23 for winning so consistently for so long gets it for me.

                 Worst - I'd agree with them on the M28, but the MP4-30 probably gets a worthy mention too.

 

Renault: Best - Probably the Benetton B195 actually, with the R26 in close second.

               Worst - If it's not the 2014 Lotus E22 it's one of the original overweight, underpowered Tolemans.

 

AlphaTauri: Best - I suppose it has to be the Toro Rosso STR3 from 2008. It won a race and beat the parent Red Bull team overall.

                   Worst - The Minardi M85B from 1986 in particular. Dead slow and retired from every single race it started.

 

Haas: Best - The 2018 VF-18

          Worst - The 2019 VF-19

 

Racing Point: Best - Jordan 199. Two wins and an outside shot at the championship. Enough said.

                      Worst - Midland/Spyker/Force India VJM01, as they said.

 

Alfa Romeo: Best - BMW Sauber F1.08. For the same reasons as the Jordan 199.

                     Worst - Sauber C33, as The Race said.

 

Williams: Best - A lot of great cars to choose from, but I feel the electronic aids on the FW14B and FW15C make it a bit too easy for them. Statistically the 1996 FW18 was their most successful car and it didn't have anything special going on, so it gets my vote.

                Worst - The FW Racing Cars don't count because that was a different team. So it's got to be last year's FW42. Shocking.



#9 Hati

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 10:13

Does MP4-18 qualify?



#10 Risil

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 12:38

For the best Williams chassis I'd give a shout for the FW07, which debuted Midway through 1979. Patrick Head exploited a time of great technical change to propel a no-name team to the front of the grid, where it stayed for two-and-a-half years. This was right at the end of the Cosworth DFV era so there was no question that it was the car that made the difference. The principles were so good that evolutions of the chassis remained the best normally-aspirated entries even with changes of driver and the flat-bottom rule of 1983. By way of comparison the dominant Williams cars of the early 1990s turned out to be dogs' dinners when the FIA switched off the electronic driver aids.

#11 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 18:59

1980.

 

The T5 managed to do only one thing that was memorable and of vital importance for Enzo: It scored more WDC and WCC points than the Alfa Romeo Team....

Now Alfa had terrible luck with Depailler being killed. But given the success rate of the Alfa V12 the year before with Brabham, maybe that outscoring by the T5 of the Alfa was perhaps a bit easier op papier then it looked to be on first sight. If you read the final results for the Alfa team that year.....

312T5's at least saw the chequered flag on a regular base.

 

That 1980 Alfa may wll be mentionted as being their worst ever car if we evaluate the Alfa Romeo part of that Sauber-Alfa Romeo combo.



#12 messy

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 19:11

Does MP4-18 qualify?


It was developed into the MP4/19 though, that won a race the next season. That was the same car, tweaked and improved, wasn’t it? Any car that (eventually) won a race I’d probably disqualify from the running tbh.

I also think cars like the 1980 Ferrari 312T maybe can’t be blamed quite as much because they were cars developed for years that just eventually became outclassed. Or quite quickly and dramatically in the Ferrari’s case, having finished 1-2 in the championship the previous year. But essentially they’d just bled it dry hadn’t they, like the McLaren M23 I guess.

#13 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 19:29

It was developed into the MP4/19 though, that won a race the next season. That was the same car, tweaked and improved, wasn’t it? Any car that (eventually) won a race I’d probably disqualify from the running tbh.

I also think cars like the 1980 Ferrari 312T maybe can’t be blamed quite as much because they were cars developed for years that just eventually became outclassed. Or quite quickly and dramatically in the Ferrari’s case, having finished 1-2 in the championship the previous year. But essentially they’d just bled it dry hadn’t they, like the McLaren M23 I guess.

 

There were differences between the 1979 and 1980 Ferrari T4 and T5 despite their similar looks.

The funny thing remainas about that 1979 title of Ferrari that it was very much the result of Ligier loosing the ball after a great start and the Willimas FW07 arriving too late.  Both these cars had the potential to outrun the Ferrari T4. Performance-wise, the Renault was also capable to give the T4 a run for the money but the Renault had reliability issues. Alltogether, the T4 was up against three challengers that year but none of them put up a consistent performance all year long or was unable to do so because of being a late arrival. And that saved it for Ferrari that year. But the awakening one year later....

 

Though it can also be said that some people at Ferrari already had seen the writing on the wall during 1979 and kind of gave up 1980 to invest in the future instead.


Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 May 2020 - 19:30.


#14 PlatenGlass

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 19:35

 

That 1980 Alfa may wll be mentionted as being their worst ever car if we evaluate the Alfa Romeo part of that Sauber-Alfa Romeo combo.

And yet it nearly won at Watkins Glen.



#15 Henri Greuter

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 07:35

And yet it nearly won at Watkins Glen.



The very lone flash in the pan yes. Have you seen how often the Alfas's retired that year? Not, unlike the T5 finish outside the points but retire, retire, retire .....
Again, the team must be devastated by the Depailler tragedy. But that V12 was a disaster with Brabham and very much so for Alfa itself as well

#16 lustigson

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 07:49

1980.

 

That's what I thought, too.

 

Sadly, history at most sites goes back to roughly the mid-1990s nowadays.   ;)



#17 MCS

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 08:25

That's what I thought, too.

 

Sadly, history at most sites goes back to roughly the mid-1990s nowadays.   ;)

And I was going to suggest 1973 . . .  :blush:



#18 Risil

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 09:10

Worst Ferrari - 1993, maybe. Best - tie between 2002 and 2004 I guess.

 

1980.

 

To give the 1980 iteration of the 312T its due, it never did this to one of its drivers:

 



#19 BobbyRicky

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 11:21

WILLIAMS:

 

Williams best cars are hands down the FW14B ('92) and FW15C ('93) in which Mansell & Prost won the title their best cars. At the time Niki Lauda said of those cars that 'even a monkey could win races in it', two of the most perfect F1 cars ever build, and with active suspension.

 

 

Gentlemen, a short view back to the past. Thirty years ago, Niki Lauda told us: "Take a trained monkey, place him into the cockpit and he is able to drive the car." Thirty years later Sebastian told us: "I had to start my car like a computer. It's very complicated." And Nico Rosbeg said, err, he pressed during the race, I don't remember what race, the wrong button on the wheel. Question for you to both. Is formula 1 driving today too complicated with 20 and more buttons on the wheel, are you too much under effort, under pressure? What are your wishes for the future, concerning technical program, errrm, during the race? Less buttons, more? Or less and more comunication with your engineers.

 

/legend



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#20 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 12:47

Only been watching since around 1998, so will exclude years before that.

Mercedes - Worst: 2011. No pace in that, not a single podium after their positive comeback in 2010. Best: Probably 2014, car was so dominant. It could have won all races that season. Still believe they didn’t unleash full power on thar car all season long.

Ferrari - Worst: 2014. That car was so bad and ugly. Kimi couldn’t cope with it at all and Alonso extracted everything and more out of it. Best: 2004, Schumacher already winning the championship before the summer. 2002 was also very similar.

Red Bull - Worst: 2015. Compared to the budget they had back then, it was a poorly developed car compared to it’s predecessor. 2006 was also bad, but was only their second year in F1. Best: I would say 2011, because the car was dominant all season long contra to 2013 where it only really got dominant after the summer.

McLaren - Worst: Definitely 2015, their first year back with Honda. Only 27 points scored and so unreliable and slow. Best: 2005. Despite not winning any title, the car was the fastest by a mile that season. 1998 comes very close too.

Renault - Worst: 2016, the first year of their comeback. Though it really was just a modified Lotus E23 which was already a modified Lotus E22. Best: 2005 I think. Car was so strong and reliable in Alonso’s hands. 2006 is a close second. 

Racing Point/Force India - Worst: 2008, but no shame, it was their first season in F1. Best: 2017, they were a clear fourth and scored a massive amount of points for a midfield team.

Alfa Romeo/Sauber - Worst: 2014, scoring no points all year was really poor. Also a dull line up with Sutil and Gutierrez. Best: Not counting the BMW years, so 2012 it is. Could have won a race or two even (Malaysia, Belgium).

Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri -  Worst: 2006. The first season in F1, which counts for most teams. A modified V10 engine and not scoring many points. Best: 2008. The car won a race and was genuinely the fourth quickest car for the majority of the season.

Haas - Worst: 2019, for obvious reasons. The rear was bad, which caused massive rear tyre degradation and car falling back all the time in races. Best: Obviously 2018, scoring loads of points and finish 5th in the standings.

Williams - Worst: 2019 really. Slowest of the lot, and scoring a lucky point in Germany, otherwise a pointless season. Best: 2002 I think. Car was second fastest all season and could sometimes even battle it out with the dominant Ferrari.



#21 messy

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 13:25

I’ll do the same, post ‘98 (first full year I watched F1)

Mercedes
Worst - 2011, just a very limited car that was always well adrift of the podium even though it was reliable and consistent.
Best - 2016, the most dominant of all the dominant Mercs.

Ferrari
Worst - 2005, a real shock coming off the dominance of 2004. Canada best run, never won a ‘real’ race all season
Best - 2004, so dominant Schumacher spent the second half foot half off the gas gifting wins to Barrichello.

Red Bull
Worst - 2015 hands down, what a useless package that was when compared to what came before and after. No wins.
Best - 2011, absolutely. Dominated the entire season, reined in for one weekend only then off again.

Williams
Worst - 2019 was a pathetic, sad story from start to finish, but 2011 and 2013 were almost as awful, buses the lot of them.
Best - probably 2003 was the peak year of Williams BMW and Montoya maybe should have been the WDC.

Force India etc.
Worst - Jordan 2005, the season they dropped to the Minardi level and hired Narain Karthikeyan to drive it. Best - Jordan 199, 1999. A picture of simplicity in design. With increased budget for 2000 came inflated expectations and overreaching

Enstone
Worst - 2014, but special mention to the 2009 Renault, which looked and handled like a boat
Best - 2006, the Renault wasn’t genuinely quickest in 2005 but it was the following year, peak Alonso success year

McLaren
Worst - 2013, fastest car on the grid to mired in midfield in one costly, unnecessary gamble.
Best - 1998, absolutely transformed them into a winning machine and beautiful too. Newey’s work at its finest

Toro Rosso etc
Worst - 2009, so competitive the previous year then the 2009 car was one of the most limited in a very close field and one of the few cars that yea4 never to have its day in the sun.
Best - 2008, won on merit and beat the sister team.

Sauber
Worst - 2009, a horrible, horrible car that was just wrong on every level and destroyed the good work of 2008.
Best - 2012, could have been a race winner on merit, closest F1 has had to a second 1999 Jordan type surprise

Haas
Worst - 2019
Best - 2018, but a very small sample

#22 PlatenGlass

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 15:36

Gentlemen, a short view back to the past. Thirty years ago, Niki Lauda told us: "Take a trained monkey, place him into the cockpit and he is able to drive the car." Thirty years later Sebastian told us: "I had to start my car like a computer. It's very complicated." And Nico Rosbeg said, err, he pressed during the race, I don't remember what race, the wrong button on the wheel. Question for you to both. Is formula 1 driving today too complicated with 20 and more buttons on the wheel, are you too much under effort, under pressure? What are your wishes for the future, concerning technical program, errrm, during the race? Less buttons, more? Or less and more comunication with your engineers.

/legend

Can you repeat the question?

#23 WonderWoman61

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 11:02

This year's Mercedes has to be a strong contender, even if it did win a race.

#24 CSF

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 11:25

This year's Mercedes has to be a strong contender, even if it did win a race.

 

The 2010-2012 cars were far worse and thats before we think about where their history begins.  :D



#25 Jellyfishcake

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 11:32

The 2010-2012 cars were far worse and thats before we think about where their history begins.  :D

 

Yeah, definitely short memories on this front,

 

This years car almost scored the same number of points as they did in all 3 of those seasons added together.

 

The 2011 car has to take the cake, it was the only one to not even get a podium, let alone a win.


Edited by Jellyfishcake, 24 November 2022 - 11:32.


#26 Anderis

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 12:16

The 2011 car has to take the cake, it was the only one to not even get a podium, let alone a win.

But the 2011 car at least scored points in almost every race. The 2012 one had a streak of 5 races without a single point.



#27 Scotracer

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 12:25

This year's Mercedes has to be a strong contender, even if it did win a race.

 

The 2011 car was consistently hopeless. Best finish a number of 5ths for The Michael and Nico.



#28 RedRabbit

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 12:33

Of the "modern" era -

Ferrari
Worst - 2014s F14T, a horrible looking thing with such poor pace that even Alonso only managed to squeeze one lucky 3rd place podium out of it. Also the product of abandoning a decent 2013 car more than halfway through the season, so a real failure.

Best - 2002/2004

McLaren
Worst - easily the 2018. A lot of chest beating in 2016/17 about a great chassis, and that fitting a Renault unit wasn't a problem. Cue burnt bodywork and a dog slow car that pushed Alonso into quitting F1 for 2 years.

Best - 1988 but with honourable mention to the 2005 car. It might have been a hand grenade but made Kimi look like a driving god.

Renault (Enstone)
Worst - 2009, another car so bad that even Alonso couldn't put it on the podium, and Grosjean struggled so much in just half a season that Alonso massacred him back to GP2.

Best - 2005/2006, last of the V10 WCCs and first of the V8 WCCs, to go with the drivers titles is quite special.

Red Bull -
Worst - 2008. Beaten by STR using the same chassis, yet managed to have such poor reliability that Webber considered retiring.

Best - 2022, the car had no weakness, unlike the 2013 model that chewed up tires in the first half, and then benefitted from all other teams abandoning the season to focus on 2014.

Mercedes
Worst - 2010. Disappointing car after BrawnGP winning in 2009. Most expected some kind of title defense with Schumacher and Brawn re-uniting, and factory backing on an evolution of a champion car.

Best - 2014. The absolute dominance that year was quite mind blowing in a new formula. No other team came close on merit.

Torro Rosso/Alpha Tauri
Worst - 2022. Using the championship winning engine and complete back end from Red Bull they managed to finish behind Haas.

Best - 2008. Seb won a race, STR beat RBR.

Williams -
Worst - 2019, multiple seconds slower than the next slowest car was just dismal.

Best - 1992.

Other teams don't really have any stand out best and worst for me. Sauber have built some decent cars and some fairly poor cars, but nothing all that stark. Same with Force India.

#29 messy

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 12:49

This year's Mercedes has to be a strong contender, even if it did win a race.


Nah - 2011 car didn't even get a podium. Think the best result was a fourth place for Schumacher. It was pure front of midfield fodder.

#30 RedRabbit

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 13:15

But the 2011 car at least scored points in almost every race. The 2012 one had a streak of 5 races without a single point.


The 2012 Merc won a race with Nico, and had unofficial Pole in Monaco with Schumacher.

#31 Anderis

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 15:09

The 2012 Merc won a race with Nico, and had unofficial Pole in Monaco with Schumacher.

I know but it still scored fewer points than in 2011 and finished lower in WCC. It's a testament to how much they underperformed in 2nd half of the year. Also both Rosberg and Schumacher had lower average qualifying position than Maldonado.



#32 jwill189

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Posted 24 November 2022 - 15:18

I feel old when most posters think the teams' worst cars are within the last 10 years.



#33 absinthedude

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Posted 25 November 2022 - 09:26

The 1980 season was pitiful for Ferrari. Having definitely had the edge for much of 1979 and taken the title, they were nowhere in 1980. 

 

At this distance it's hard to evaluate whether the 2016 Mercedes was better than the W196 or W125. There must be very few left alive who saw the W125 race in anger and not many who saw the W196. I've seen a W196 up close, driven not six feet from my position and put through it's paces at Mercedes-Benz World in Brooklands....but not seen it race other than in old films - which are good but incomplete. However, it seems to have been so advanced of the competition that I'd say it's the best Mercedes grand prix car. 



#34 Brian60

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Posted 25 November 2022 - 09:55

The craziest statistic here was All Ferrari.....320 engines available for the 1993 season! That season there were only 16 races, so approx 20 engines per race weekend! Yes I know it will be less due to testing and pre season etc, but its still a staggering amount.



#35 Henri Greuter

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Posted 25 November 2022 - 10:25

The 1980 season was pitiful for Ferrari. Having definitely had the edge for much of 1979 and taken the title, they were nowhere in 1980. 

 

At this distance it's hard to evaluate whether the 2016 Mercedes was better than the W196 or W125. There must be very few left alive who saw the W125 race in anger and not many who saw the W196. I've seen a W196 up close, driven not six feet from my position and put through it's paces at Mercedes-Benz World in Brooklands....but not seen it race other than in old films - which are good but incomplete. However, it seems to have been so advanced of the competition that I'd say it's the best Mercedes grand prix car. 

 

1979 reflected much of what happened to Ferrari in this season but then for another team.

 

Ligier winning three of the first 5 races, the first two utterly dominant but then the season falling apart for the french due to all kind of circumstances, some of them beyond their control. Ferrari had luck with that. And on top of that there was still the chronic unreliability of Renault all season long and the fact that the Williams FW07 only made its debut at about 1/3rd of the seasn and was fully sorted out only halfway.

In 1979 Ferrari definitely didn't have the best car aa most tracks, on average it was second or third best but the for the time unususal reliability of the 312T4 saved the day for Ferrari that year.

 

But one could predict the downfall they had in 1980 when so many more teams had sorted out full groundeffects cars properly and it being impossible for Ferrari to field such a car due to the wide Flat12 engine. You really can't blame the team for the fact that what up till then had been a magnificent engine simply couldn't work within a major aerodynamic revolution but because of that, what had been an asset became the major handicap for the team.

They simply sacrificed that 1980 season to prepare for the (turbo) future.

And despite the inefficiency of the 1980 chassis due to its engine, Ferrari still outscored Alfa Romeo handsomely despite the fact that Alfa had a full ground effects car with V12 engine that year already.

So if Ferrari is bullied because of its car it used in 1980, then what does Alfa Romeo deserve for treatment?


Edited by Henri Greuter, 25 November 2022 - 10:26.