82 replies to this topic

[cooper997]

After Stirling's Walker Cooper victory at the 1962 Warwick Farm International meeting he ended up on this cover. If I've got my facts correct his last race win in his professional career.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

With reference to my own comment above about the 1962 Warwick Farm International being Stirling's final professional career win, I had reason to add a note to that section of the Warwick Farm waffle I keep. The penny dropped while perusing the entry list...

Sir Stirling, up until last Sunday was the last man standing.

Sunday, February 4, 1962 Warwick Farm
Event 5 International ‘100’ Race – 45 laps.2.30pm
1 Ecurie Vitesse (Dvr J Brabham) NSW Cooper Climax 2700 Green
2 Bowmaker Yeoman Racing Team (Dvr J Surtees) GB Cooper Climax 2700 Green/Red
3 Bowmaker Yeoman Racing Team (Dvr R Salvadori) GB Cooper Climax 2600 Green/Red
4 Bowmaker Yeoman Racing Team (Dvr A N Davison) Vic Cooper Climax 2600 Green
5 Scuderia Veloce (Dvr J Youl) Tas Cooper Climax 2200 Blue
6 B S Stillwell Vic Cooper Climax 2495 Green
7 R R C Walker Racing Team (Dvr S Moss) GB Lotus/Cooper Climax 2500 Blue – used Cooper
8 R Flockhart GB Lotus Climax 2500 Yellow/Black
9 Capitol Motors (Dvr A Glass) NSW BRM 2496 Red
10 B McLaren NZ Cooper Climax 2700 Green
11 Geoghegan Motors Liverpool (Dvr L /I Geoghegan) NSW Lotus 20 FJ 1099 Black
12 Scuderia Veloce (Dvr G Youl) Tas MRD Ford 1099 Blue
14 Scuderia Veloce (Dvr D McKay) NSW Cooper Climax 2460 Red
15 A Miller Tas Cooper Corvette 4500 Yellow
16 A Hyslop NZ Cooper Climax 2500 White/Blue
17 Scuderia Centro-Sud (Dvr L Bandini) Italy Cooper Maserati 2800 Red
18 A N Davison (Reserve entry) Vic Aston Martin DBR4 2996 Green

Stephen

[D-Type]

Was the car Stirling Moss raced in the 1962 Sandown International the 2.5 litre Lotus 21 - Climax that he had raced in New Zealand?
Did he use the 2.7 litre Climax in all the races he ran in the Cooper in the "Tasman" races?

[Ray Bell]

Interesting question...

 

I would have thought sticking the 2.7 engine into the Lotus would have been a given, but in New Zealand he didn't. But at Levin and Teretonga he ran the Cooper with that engine.

 

At Warwick Farm he ran the Cooper, undoubtedly with the 2.7 engine, at Sandown the Lotus 21 and seemingly still with the 2.5. Confirming picture at Autopics:

 

http://autopics.com....x-sandown-1962/

 

Regarding competing against Clark, In New Zealand in 1961 they both raced in two of the races, then at Warwick Farm. Later Moss said that he could beat Clark in equal cars, but he'd have trouble in 'last year's car' if Jim was in the latest model. In the 1961 races in this part of the world both used Lotus 18s

[cooper997]

Was the car Stirling Moss raced in the 1962 Sandown International the 2.5 litre Lotus 21 - Climax that he had raced in New Zealand?
Did he use the 2.7 litre Climax in all the races he ran in the Cooper in the "Tasman" races?

Interesting question...

I would have thought sticking the 2.7 engine into the Lotus would have been a given, but in New Zealand he didn't. But at Levin and Teretonga he ran the Cooper with that engine.

At Warwick Farm he ran the Cooper, undoubtedly with the 2.7 engine, at Sandown the Lotus 21 and seemingly still with the 2.5. Confirming picture at Autopics:

http://autopics.com....x-sandown-1962/

Regarding competing against Clark, In New Zealand in 1961 they both raced in two of the races, then at Warwick Farm. Later Moss said that he could beat Clark in equal cars, but he'd have trouble in 'last year's car' if Jim was in the latest model. In the 1961 races in this part of the world both used Lotus 18s

One suspects RRC Walker mechanic, Mal Simpson was being kept pretty busy during the 1962 Internationals. A 2.7 litre Climax was mutually hot property and hard to come by/

I have a note relating back to April 62 AMS that Stirling ran the same Warwick Farm-winning Cooper's engine in the Lotus at Sandown

Here's Sandown's Heat 1 & 2 entry listings (and yes I know this can't be taken as gospel - but note Climax related capacities listed at 2800).

Event 5 first day Sandown International Cup heat 1 15 laps 2pm p20
1 Ecurie Vitesse/J Brabham Cooper Green 2800
3 Yeoman Credit Racing Team/Surtees Cooper Blue & Red 2800
5 Reventlow Automobiles Inc / C Daigh Scarab Blue & White 3960
9 Bill Patterson Motors / G W Patterson Cooper White 2500
10 C R Atkins / B McLaren Cooper Light Green 2800
11 W Leech / D Whiteford Maserati Red 2991
12 Scuderia Veloce / J Youll Cooper Red 2200
13 Killara Motor Garage / R J Holden Lynx Ivory & Black 1498
14 Ecurie Australie/A N Davison DBR4/300 Aston Martin Green 2992
16 Reventlow Automobiles Inc / L Reventlow Scarab Blue & White 5000
17 Ecurie Shepparton/B Thompson (Thomson) Cooper Green & White 2394
22 E A Clay / E A Clay Cooper Bristol Green 2157
26 Ecurie Van Diemen/ L Archer Cooper Green & Gold 1475
27 J G Lanyon/K B Mills MG Green 1460
30 J Hunnam/J Hunnam Lotus Green 997
33 Ecurie Birchwood / J S E Leighton Cooper Red & White 1098
34 J McDonald/J McDonald Elfin Blue 1340
37 T Corcoran/T Corcoran Lola Red 1098
38 Capitol Motors / A Glass BRM Red 2496
39 F Matich / F Matich Lotus Monte Carlo Green 2492
40 Leaton Motors/TBN Lotus 15 Yellow & Black 2492
41 R Flockhart/R Flockhart Lotus Yellow 2490
Event 6 first day Sandown International Cup heat 2 15 laps 2.45pm p21
2 Yeoman Credit Racing Team/R F Salvadori Cooper Blue & Red 2800
4 Yeoman Credit Racing Team/A N Davison Cooper Blue & Red 2500
6 B S Stillwell/B S Stillwell Cooper Green 2500
7 R R C Walker/S Moss Cooper/Lotus Blue 2800
8 Team Lotus / J Clark Lotus Green 2500
15 Bill Patterson Motors/ D Whiteford Cooper White 2326
18 Ecurie Shepparton / T Wilson Cooper Red & Yellow 2400
19 P N Hoare/P N Hoare Dino Ferrari Red 2996
20 Tourist Motor & Farming Equip./ A Hyslop Cooper White 2500
21 Young Auto Racing Team/P Wherrett Lynx Green 997
23 R Marshall/R Marshall Cooper Red 1497
24 East Burwood Motors/W Mitchell Lotus Gold 997
25 ATR(AJR) Osborne / S Fisher Cooper Holden Blue & White 2440
28 Janlaw Motors / L W Whitehead Ausper Red 997
29 J B Roxburgh/J B Roxburgh Cooper White 1960
31 Austin Miller / A Miller Cooper Corvette Yellow 4500
32 V Lucas/ V Lucas Cooper Black 1496
35 R McCormack/ R McCormack Maybach Silver 4500
36 Harrison & Brown/A G Brown Elfin Red 997

Another point relating back to slightly earlier discussion of Stirling Moss' use of Lotus rather than Cooper at Sandown. Even in the Provisional results COOPER has been typed and then voided by the overtyping of XXXXXX on it with LOTUS next to it.

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Stephen, that is interesting, along with the fact that Sandown Park bought the Cooper from RRC Walker...

 

Did someone run the Cooper at that meeting, or did it just lay fallow until later in the year?

[cooper997]

Hiccups happen in publishing, I've found a period source with the Moss Lotus listed as winner of the 1962 Warwick Farm International. MOTOR RACING YEAR 1962-63 p116 has it winning, when it was the Cooper.

Ray, I'm not aware of anybody else racing the 'spare' Walker Cooper at Sandown.

And just to show Stirling was way ahead of the pack given our current global circumstances. Here he is at the 1962 Sandown meeting in the Lotus with his prototype Covid mask.



Stephen

[Paul Hamilton]

Interesting question...

 

I would have thought sticking the 2.7 engine into the Lotus would have been a given, but in New Zealand he didn't. But at Levin and Teretonga he ran the Cooper with that engine.

 

At Warwick Farm he ran the Cooper, undoubtedly with the 2.7 engine, at Sandown the Lotus 21 and seemingly still with the 2.5. Confirming picture at Autopics:

 

http://autopics.com....x-sandown-1962/

 

Regarding competing against Clark, In New Zealand in 1961 they both raced in two of the races, then at Warwick Farm. Later Moss said that he could beat Clark in equal cars, but he'd have trouble in 'last year's car' if Jim was in the latest model. In the 1961 races in this part of the world both used Lotus 18s

 

Ray, there would seem to have been some confusion about the equipment Stirling used at both Warwick Farm and Sandown in 1962.  At the Farm I recall that he drove the Lotus on Friday and was way in front of every one else but then chose to use the Cooper on race day when it was no quicker and probably less suited to the circuit.  At Sandown he ran the Lotus apparently with the 2.5 engine leaving the 2.7 Cooper on the bench at a circuit where the extra capacity would surely have been a lot more useable as the results confirmed with Brabham, Surtees and McLaren finishing on the podium all within 5 seconds or so and all in 2.7 Coopers.  Stirling could do no better than 5th a lap behind having spent the whole race dicing with Chuck Daigh in the Scarab. Jim Clark followed them home in 6th driving a 2.5 litre Lotus 21  and the results would seem to have confirmed the dominance of the 2.7 FPF powered cars over the 2.5s on a power circuit such as Sandown then was.

 

I have seen those results mis reported in several places but the results above are in accord with my memory and I was a keen observer of Moss at the Farm in both 1961 and '62 and followed the subsequent Sandown results closely.  The Sandown race is not mentioned at all in DCN's 1987 book Stirling Moss - My Cars , My Career which is a pity as the book provides an otherwise complete record.  From an Australian perspective the Sandown event was a significant one as it was the circuit opener and the last occasion on which Stirling would compete down under if his much later unfortunately trouble plagued efforts in sedan cars are excluded from any summary of his mainline career.

[Ray Bell]

I agree, Paul, that the Lotus with the 2.5 would have a performance more like what was indicated by the Sandown result than if it had the 2.7...

 

There may have been a physical impediment to fitting the 2.7 as well, perhaps fitment of the exhausts or something?

 

Of course, dicing with Daigh would have held him up considerably, but Moss did pass him several times only to be repassed by Daigh. Moss won one of the 15-lap heats too, with nobody in his way and none of the faster cars competing in that heat (they had scored 1-2-3 in an earlier heat). Clark was second in that one, while Moss recorded a time of 1:10.3 compared to Surtees' fastest lap in the other heat of 1:08.9. Similarly, Moss was 1.3 seconds slower than Brabham in the qualifying sessions.

 

It's clear that Moss had a deficiency somewhere, we know it wasn't in the driver, it probably wasn't in the chassis, they all had the same tyres so it must have been the engine.

 

At Warwick Farm, by the way, Geoff Smedley has written that Moss chose the Cooper as it would be more capable of withstanding the roughness of the horse track crossings.

[Doug Nye]

 The Sandown race is not mentioned at all in DCN's 1987 book Stirling Moss - My Cars , My Career which is a pity as the book provides an otherwise complete record.  From an Australian perspective the Sandown event was a significant one as it was the circuit opener and the last occasion on which Stirling would compete down under if his much later unfortunately trouble plagued efforts in sedan cars are excluded from any summary of his mainline career.

 

  Guilty - Dammit!

 

 Moss used the 2.7-litre engine from his Walker Cooper which was fitted over Sunday night, it would appear, for the main Sandown Park race on the Monday.  I omitted this race from 'My Cars' and also from the much earlier 'Theme Lotus' - utterly mortifying!  

 

And it's not only one race deficit in the Moss record, it's two because he contested the 15-lap Heat Two on the Sunday in addition to the feature race on the Monday.  In the Heat Moss won, beating Chuck Daigh into second place in the new rear-engined Scarab-Buick.  However, the American was penalised for having jumped the start, which left him fifth.  In the main race, however, Brabham won from Surtees and Bruce McLaren - all in 2.7 Coopers - while Moss was beaten by Daigh by 0.3sec for third place, so finishing fourth in the Walker Lotus.  Eoin Young wrote a terrific report for 'Motoring News' published in their March 22 issue.  He describes how the Scarab would leave the Lotus for dead out of the corners, only to be passed under braking, then to overwhelm the Lotus again on the exit.  No report appeared covering the race in 'Autosport' which merely ran a 1-inch single-column result on its 'Sports News' page, three weeks later.

 

One extremely prescient matter reported by ESY in 'MN' was the following: "Jack Brabham was very intrigued with the 3.9-litre 290bhp V8 Buick hidden under the four Weber carbs. It seems the Buick may be the ideal unit to bring to Australasia next season when the 2.5 Climaxes are starting to wear out...".  Here, surely, is the seed for the Repco Brabham V8 programme?

 

Otherwise, really annoyed with myself...  Or, should I just say, "Thank you Paul - I was just wondering who'd be first to spot that.."?

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 26 April 2020 - 07:10.

[cooper997]

Doug, like I mentioned a few posts back, hiccups happen in publishing. What is potentially more mortifying is that Eoin reported Stirling and Chuck in the same Heat. I thought it was Bib Stillwell who had a good battle with Stirling in their Sunday Heat and BSS was the one penalised for jumping the start. Chuck and Stirling then had their fun together battling for what would be 4th and 5th places on Monday.

 

Stirling also had an incident during the weekend with the Lotus nose being damaged when the Vaughan Lucas' Cooper rear was collected. This apparently made the newspapers.

 

For the record this lot is further reading with 1962 Sandown International coverage (and there could be more).

4/62 Australian Motor Sports

4/62 The Motorman (NZ)

4/62 Racing Car News

5/62 Autosportsman

5/62 Modern Motor

5/62 Sports Car World

6/62 Road & Track

 

And to revisit a question raised by Ray, the 'spare' Walker Cooper was practiced, but not raced by a future World Champ. Jim Clark took it out while his Lotus gearbox was getting some attention.

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

I think that would have to be further evidence that the 2.7 engine didn't go into the Lotus...

 

If it had been pulled from the Cooper, they would have left the Cooper engineless as it wasn't going to be used, surely?

[cooper997]

I think the competitive nature of Stirling Moss would have been enough to want to be on a more equal playing field to warrant the engine change. He certainly wouldn't have liked being 1.3 seconds down on Brabham's practice time. Then add to the equation not being able to distance himself from Bib Stillwell during Sunday's Heat.

 

Most race mechanics could rebuilld a car after Saturday practice sessions (one of, when Jim used the Cooper) and Sunday's Heat. Let alone starting to swap an engine Sunday night (as DCN has mentioned) if they had to. So 2 engines out and only one required to be back in a chassis come Monday afternoon race day seem feasible.

 

It still doesn't explain why the Cooper didn't race and potentially save an engine swap. Perhaps it's as simple as Clerk of Course, Neil Marsden & Co wanted the Lotus because there was already too many Coopers. Given the Supp Regs state "For Event 6, 7, 12 and 15 the Promoters reserve the right to select such cars as they may choose from the entrants of the Sandown International Cup..." that helps give that idea some substance.

 

Stephen

[Doug Nye]

Doug, like I mentioned a few posts back, hiccups happen in publishing. What is potentially more mortifying is that Eoin reported Stirling and Chuck in the same Heat. I thought it was Bib Stillwell who had a good battle with Stirling in their Sunday Heat and BSS was the one penalised for jumping the start. Chuck and Stirling then had their fun together battling for what would be 4th and 5th places on Monday.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

I'm doing really well here - I missed a chunk of Eoin's report.  He did not place Moss and Daigh in the same heat - my scrambled mind did.

 

He actually wrote of Heat 2: "Stilwell was the big surprise when he hounded Moss' 2.7 Lotus throughout the heat, but he was penalised a minute for jumping the start which dropped him too fifth place after a splendid drive in his 2.5 Cooper."  He also reported: "In the closing laps of this heat Moss ran under the tail of a slower car which braked as Moss was approaching, and the the pre-race night was spent dabbing on fibreglass and fitting another gear ratio...".

 

Earlier in the piece after recounting practice happenings, Eoin wrote of the Saturday night: "Overnight a new clutch was fitted in the Moss Lotus..." but no mention of an engine change from 2.5 to 2.7 for the Sunday heats - although in his coverage of the Sunday heat 2 ESY quotes Moss as driving the "2.7 Lotus" - as above.

 

Yet referring then to the Monday feature race - that Monday, March 12, 1962, being Victoria's Labour Day holiday - ESY states clearly "Moss in the Lotus, now fitted with a 2.7 for the first time".

 

Stirling did tell me once that while he had the choice of Lotus or Cooper for those southern series races he had used the Cooper at Warwick Farm partly to demonstrate that he didn't need the newer Lotus 21 to head the field - as he had in the flooded NZ GP.  He won in the 21 again in the Lady Wigram race at Christchurch. But he'd driven the Cooper at Levin, shortened by rain and where he finished 2nd behind Brabham - and at Teretonga where he drove the Cooper again and was beaten by McLaren...so perhaps, yes, he did sometimes need the Lotus...  

 

Against the more sorted-out Scarab-Buick and the other Coopers at Sandown Park it is possible that by then he really did need not only the Lotus 21 - but also the 2.7 engine.  I would love to see a photo of Jimmy Clark out in the 'spare' Walker Cooper during Sandown Park practice.  That is indeed a rarity - Clark in a Cooper.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 26 April 2020 - 10:48.

[Doug Nye]

Related parts of ESY's 1962 Sandown Park race report in the British specialist newspaper 'Motoring News'...

 

 

 

But - they managed to make a Horlicks of the published result...which makes me feel a little better...  

 

 

DCN

[ensign14]

Had to read that results bit a couple of times to work out what had been transposed where.

[cooper997]

Tony Johns sent through his handwritten notes from that Labor Day Monday long weekend Sandown International meeting

 

 

Please note do your own checking for the Grid Positions - Tony's is different to Autosportsman's. And it's different to AMS!

like this...

 

Monday grid from 5/62 Autosportsman p25

J Surtees – B McLaren – J Brabham

           S Moss – C Daigh

W Patterson – J Clark – A Hyslop

      R Salvadori – B Stillwell

J Youl – L Davison – D Whiteford

     J Roxburgh – B Thomson

R Flockhart – A Miller – P Hoare

 

From 4/62 AMS grid p24

Brabham -  McLaren – Surtees

           Moss – Daigh

Patterson – Clark – Hyslop

      Salvadori – Stillwell

Youl – Davison – Whiteford

     Roxburgh – Thomson

Hoare –  Flockhart – A Miller

 

So clear as mud!

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

It's worth noting that the 'signwriter's slip' relates to the make of car, not the entrant's name...

 

Jack generally raced in Australia under the Ecurie Vitesse banner along with Brian Muir (and Max Stahl).

[Doug Nye]

The only reliable reference to starting grids is often the photographic record...

 

On another matter I know the Aussie Labor Party spells its title the American way - but is it properly 'Labour' Day or 'Labor' Day?  (Just curios)

 

DCN

[Paul Hamilton]

The only reliable reference to starting grids is often the photographic record...
 
On another matter I know the Aussie Labor Party spells its title the American way - but is it properly 'Labour' Day or 'Labor' Day?  (Just curios)
 
DCN

The correct spelling is Labour Day. The public holiday is on a different day in each Australian State in recognition of the different times at which the 8 hour working day was achieved and in Tasmania it is still called 8 Hour Day. No direct linkage to the Australian Labor Party.

[cooper997]

My turn for 'scrambled mind' Doug. Guilty as charged for leaving the u out of Labour. Having mucked around too late and too long on the computer last night. I even wrote a quick response in regards your comment about Jim in a Cooper photo. Messed things up and lost the post. So I knew it was time to pull the pin for the night.

 

My point I had written last night was that if John Ellacott was at Sandown International on the Saturday, then he could be a source of such a photo of Jim and the Cooper. I know he ventured to Sandown because in a selection of his work in the Loxley Tasman Cup book there's some 1962 Sandown related colour photos from his wonderful archive. I dare say John will let one of us know at some stage.

 

Otherwise, I also dare say Mark Bisset might be on the hunt, looking down all the rabbit holes he finds stuff. No pressure Mark.

 

The other avenue would be if Len Shaw or as he was sometimes published as Leonard J Shaw's archive is somewhere. At the time he was involved with Autosportsman, but I have absolutely no idea if Len is still about and if his archive is out there.

 

Another archive that offline discussion in recent days between, Mark, Tony Johns and myself has been the reminder of Philip Skelton's archive. That goes back to the original Albert Park days and again has some wonderful photos and moments - case in point of our discussion was the comprehensively bent Derek Jolly Lotus 15 photo that Tony dug out. That one can be found on primotipo's site and FB page for those interested.

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

The only reliable reference to starting grids is often the photographic record...

 

 

DCN

 

The May 1962 Sandown programme cover helps to this point, but doesn't give 100 percent view. Then, if I've done my homework correct, the September 1962 Sandown programme cover has one of the Heats - Bib, Roy and Stirling.

 

Stephen

[Jack-the-Lad]

The only reliable reference to starting grids is often the photographic record...
 
On another matter I know the Aussie Labor Party spells its title the American way - but is it properly 'Labour' Day or 'Labor' Day?  (Just curios)
 
DCN

[Michael Ferner]

Curioser & curioser...

[cooper997]

John Ellacott has been kind enough to send through some of his wonderful colour photos and information for inclusion. Unfortunately no J Clark in a Cooper though.

 

With the keenly listening gathered crowd, Stirling sits aboard the Walker Lotus 21 and rattles off yet another of his thousands of interviews during a practice day at the 1962 Warwick Farm International.

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Again from John Ellacott, he doesn't have grid photos, but he has these Heat 1 & 2 pages keenly filled out - Final to follow soon.

 

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Milan sent through the SCW report from Sandown...

 

Mike Kable wrote it, he said that Jack was ribbing Stirling claiming he'd be using nitro in his fuel on race day. That's why Stirling has the cheesecloth face mask, to keep fumes at bay.

 

The report also says that they put the Cooper's 2.7 engine into the Lotus and talks about the clutch problem as well.

[MarkBisset]

Stephen,

 

Back to the Sandown International’62 grid positions- and following Doug’s photographic evidence advice. I had a quick fossick thru the autopics archive and am confident TJ has the first 3 rows right which is all one can be certain of looking at low res scans, viz;

 

Brabham (pole) - McLaren - Surtees

Daigh - Moss

Patterson - Clark - Stillwell

 

My money is on him for the rest too!
 

I did a piece on the Walker/Moss Lotus 21 ‘935’ a while back, it has some good shots in it; https://primotipo.co.../04/08/ole-935/

 

Mark

[Doug Nye]

I really must say I find that 'primotipo' website just fantastically good...  Sincere compliments to its chefs.

 

DCN

[Jack-the-Lad]

I really must say I find that 'primotipo' website just fantastically good...  Sincere compliments to its chefs.
 
DCN

It’s now in my increasingly bloated bookmarks list.....


(Note to self: must edit bookmarks list.)

[Roger Clark]

Was that Sandown race Brabham’s last in a Cooper?

[DCapps]

I really must say I find that 'primotipo' website just fantastically good...  Sincere compliments to its chefs.

 

DCN

Mark does an exceptional job with the site. It is the sort of thing most of us strive for, but that Mark actually accomplishes. How he finds time to do it still amazes me. Top Notch stuff.

[Henk Vasmel]

Stephen,

 

Back to the Sandown International’62 grid positions- and following Doug’s photographic evidence advice. I had a quick fossick thru the autopics archive and am confident TJ has the first 3 rows right which is all one can be certain of looking at low res scans, viz;

 

Brabham (pole) - McLaren - Surtees

Daigh - Moss

Patterson - Clark - Stillwell

 

My money is on him for the rest too!
 

I did a piece on the Walker/Moss Lotus 21 ‘935’ a while back, it has some good shots in it; https://primotipo.co.../04/08/ole-935/

 

Mark

 

But now I am missing Hyslop & Salvadori (9th & R), which are listed in the other grids.

[Ray Bell]

Roger, there's a fair chance of that...

 

Longford had preceded Sandown just this once, unless Jack got into a Cooper back in England it would have been. But I'd imagine he either had his 24 or was too busy getting his own car together to do that.

[Lola5000]

Again from John Ellacott, he doesn't have grid photos, but he has these Heat 1 & 2 pages keenly filled out - Final to follow soon.





Stephen

Not wishing to hijack the thread ,was interested to read that Whiteford raced the 300S.

[cooper997]

Mark, As far as I'm aware Tony and his gang of vintage Austin Seven friends watched from Dandenong Rd Corner. So relied on the PA commentary system If I go by the May 62 Sandown programme cover then there's some transposed placements. But as I've already stated that photo doesn't show 100 percent of the field.

Earlier I posted Tony Johns version of Sandown's Event 15 Final, now here's the same pages as recorded by John Ellacott.

It is a mere 58 years since all this was written down, but as John mentioned yesterday it wasn't what he usually did by writing so much information down. However he did that weekend at Sandown having travelled from Sydney. We enthusiasts who gather this 'trivia' can indeed be grateful for his efforts. As there's probably not too many programmes where results to 12th place in each of the Heats have been noted and shared (as of post 265) .

As I mentioned in another earlier post trying to justify Stirling running the Lotus in the Final with the 2.7 Climax from the Cooper changing chassis, this most likely spells out why. Two thirds of the field with Surbiton connections.




Stephen

[cooper997]

Another from John Ellacott's wonderful collection, taken from the Sandown Grandstand before Monday's race. Quite a talented gathering await introduction to the crowd.

 

Keen eyes will already have seen this photo (although cropped) and the Moss Warwick Farm interview photo (added here yesterday) in the Tony Loxley Tasman Cup 1964 - 75 book. If you don't own a copy, seek out printciple on ebay and buy youself a copy for around Aus$65 (when I last bothered to look). No doubt more for overseas shipping from Australia though.

 

When John sent these photos through yesterday he put out the challenge as to who everyone was and who was still with us. The later was the easier part of the equation because i suspect Bryan Thomson is the only driver left. A lot of them unfortunately didn't make old bones.

See if you can identify everyone or cheat and have a look after the photo.

 

Working from left of screen, here's who I think most are. Some obviously much easier than others.

 

Chuck Daigh - orange overalls

Bruce McLaren

Lance Reventlow - casual clothes (not racing)

John Youl - sunglasses at back.

(Perhaps) John Surtees hiding behind Roy Salvadori

Lex Davison - flat cap and back to camera

Officlal - other flat cap at back - not sure who

Jim Clark

Angus Hyslop

Stirling Moss

Bib Stillwell - dark jacket

Pat Hoare - behind Bib and perhaps Ron Flockhart behind Pat (but I'm not 100 percent of these 2)

Bryan Thomson

Jack Brabham

Bill Patterson - BRDC blazer

Aussie Miller

So if that's close to accurate, that must mean John Roxburgh and Doug Whiteford are either being introduced or somewhere else.

 

Stephen

 

 

[Roger Clark]

Roger, there's a fair chance of that...

 

Longford had preceded Sandown just this once, unless Jack got into a Cooper back in England it would have been. But I'd imagine he either had his 24 or was too busy getting his own car together to do that.

I don't think Brabham drove a Cooper when he returned to Europe.  He briefly had a Lotus 21 (two, actually) before the 24.

[GazChed]

According to Formula 2.net he missed the Lombank Trophy at Snetterton due to a garage fire which presumably destroyed/badly damaged the original 21. He replaced it with another 21 for the Grand Prix de Pau and the BARC 200 at Aintree and then receiving his 24 in time for the International Trophy at Silverstone.

[MarkBisset]

Stephen,

 

How bout the names of the band members? -top spotting, no way I woulda got em all. Many thanks to John for his posts from us all- please give him my regards, the shot of Mr Moss in ‘935’ is an absolute corker! The crowd alone is fascinating.

 

So, are we happy the Lotus was 2.7 powered? I wonder if Repco were making ‘2.7 kits’ @ that time? Must ask Mike Gasking.

 

And thanks so much to DC Nye and HD Capps for the very generous primotipo words- looks like we won’t be seeing you again this year Don.

 

Mark

[ReWind]

[...] i suspect Bryan Thomson is the only driver left. A lot of them unfortunately didn't make old bones.

Some factual additions:

Chuck Daigh (38) d. 2008

Bruce McLaren (24) d. 1970

Lance Reventlow (26) d. 1972

John Youl (c.29) d. 2009

John Surtees (28) d. 2017

Roy Salvadori (39) d. 2012

Lex Davison (39) d. 1965

Jim Clark (26) d. 1968

Angus Hyslop (c.34) d. 1991

Stirling Moss (32) d. 2020

Bib Stillwell (34) d. 1999

Pat Hoare (c.43) d. 1971

Ron Flockhart (38) d. 1962 (just one month later)

Bryan Thomson (27) still alive

Jack Brabham (35) d. 2014

Bill Patterson (38) d. 2010

Aussie Miller (38) d. 2009

[cooper997]

Stephen,

 

How bout the names of the band members? -top spotting, no way I woulda got em all. Many thanks to John for his posts from us all- please give him my regards, the shot of Mr Moss in ‘935’ is an absolute corker! The crowd alone is fascinating.

 

So, are we happy the Lotus was 2.7 powered? I wonder if Repco were making ‘2.7 kits’ @ that time? Must ask Mike Gasking.

 

And thanks so much to DC Nye and HD Capps for the very generous primotipo words- looks like we won’t be seeing you again this year Don.

 

Mark

 

 

Mark,

 

The drivers were the stars, so the band members seem to have been a slight oversight by the organisers to even name their band let alone the band members. Given their movements in the photo it appears they have done their bit for the Opening Ceremony. A notice in the programme quoting an 11.30am start, when Lord Mayor of Melbourne, Maurice Nathan would be helicoptered in and introduced to the drivers, name the Grandstand, open the venue and do a lap. Perhaps that's him at the back in the flat cap. Google brings him up as an influential businessman and he was Knighted in 1963. Googling images brings up a photo on the Herald Sun site with Collingwood's Len Thompson in 1972. But hard to tell if they are the same person.

 

The two chaps in the background are of course doing their social distancing.

 

Thanks to Rewind for adding his post about the drivers.

 

Stephen

[Lola5000]

Mark,

 

The drivers were the stars, so the band members seem to have been a slight oversight by the organisers to even name their band let alone the band members. Given their movements in the photo it appears they have done their bit for the Opening Ceremony. A notice in the programme quoting an 11.30am start, when Lord Mayor of Melbourne, Maurice Nathan would be helicoptered in and introduced to the drivers, name the Grandstand, open the venue and do a lap. Perhaps that's him at the back in the flat cap. Google brings him up as an influential businessman and he was Knighted in 1963. Googling images brings up a photo on the Herald Sun site with Collingwood's Len Thompson in 1972. But hard to tell if they are the same person.

 

The two chaps in the background are of course doing their social distancing.

 

Thanks to Rewind for adding his post about the drivers.

 

Stephen

That is Sir Maurice Nathan next to Len Thompson 1972 Brownlow medal night as he was the then President of the VFL

[cooper997]

Courtesy of Tony Johns

 

RCN 1962 Sandown

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[Lee Nicolle]

Courtesy of Tony Johns

 

RCN 1962 Sandown

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

Now that is something you seldom see, a racing tri5 Pontiac. In fact I have never seen a Pontiac race in road racing apart from the occasional Trans Am.

And shock horror this should all be edited with the evil weed as a sponsor!

[Ray Bell]

Would that be a good thing for Appendix J, Lee?

 

Or were they sold here with the Chev engine?

[Repco22]

Another from John Ellacott's wonderful collection, taken from the Sandown Grandstand before Monday's race. Quite a talented gathering await introduction to the crowd.

 

Keen eyes will already have seen this photo (although cropped) and the Moss Warwick Farm interview photo (added here yesterday) in the Tony Loxley Tasman Cup 1964 - 75 book. If you don't own a copy, seek out printciple on ebay and buy youself a copy for around Aus$65 (when I last bothered to look). No doubt more for overseas shipping from Australia though.

 

When John sent these photos through yesterday he put out the challenge as to who everyone was and who was still with us. The later was the easier part of the equation because i suspect Bryan Thomson is the only driver left. A lot of them unfortunately didn't make old bones.

See if you can identify everyone or cheat and have a look after the photo.

 

Working from left of screen, here's who I think most are. Some obviously much easier than others.

 

Chuck Daigh - orange overalls

Bruce McLaren

Lance Reventlow - casual clothes (not racing)

John Youl - sunglasses at back.

(Perhaps) John Surtees hiding behind Roy Salvadori

Lex Davison - flat cap and back to camera

Officlal - other flat cap at back - not sure who

Jim Clark

Angus Hyslop

Stirling Moss

Bib Stillwell - dark jacket

Pat Hoare - behind Bib and perhaps Ron Flockhart behind Pat (but I'm not 100 percent of these 2)

Bryan Thomson

Jack Brabham

Bill Patterson - BRDC blazer

Aussie Miller

So if that's close to accurate, that must mean John Roxburgh and Doug Whiteford are either being introduced or somewhere else.

 

Stephen

Great pic Stephen. I don't know what Bryan Thomson looks like but I thought that looked like Doug Whiteford behind JB. And I would say Ron Flockhart behind Bib.  

Edited by Repco22, 05 May 2020 - 09:05.

[pallas1970]

Not sure if these are Sandown but pretty sure they are Tasman 1962

[pallas1970]

[pallas1970]