482 replies to this topic

[Widefoot2]

It seems they asked him to consider a pay cut to help keep the team going into the future. But Danni would prefer to jump from a sinking ship so to speak. Let’s hope he hasn’t jumped from one sinking ship to another.

If McLaren folds it's a pretty good bet that F1 is in pretty big trouble already, and no job is safe.

[Hakki069]

If McLaren folds it's a pretty good bet that F1 is in pretty big trouble already, and no job is safe.

It's certainly not out of the question we could see a forced mass pull out of car manufacturers.
With the only one left standing is Ferrari and the rest of the grid is redbull and a load privateer teams.

If Mclaren like Renault needs big loans in order to survive past this current crisis. Don't see how you can continue spending money in F1.

I'm sure these loan agreements would put a big block or restrictions on sporting activities. The loan would be for the road cars business to stay healthy well they move past covid-19.

[Viryfan]

It's certainly not out of the question we could see a forced mass pull out of car manufacturers.
With the only one left standing is Ferrari and the rest of the grid is redbull and a load privateer teams.

If Mclaren like Renault needs big loans in order to survive past this current crisis. Don't see how you can continue spending money in F1.

I'm sure these loan agreements would put a big block or restrictions on sporting activities. The loan would be for the road cars business to stay healthy well they move past covid-19.

You can't decorelate sporting activities and road car activities for manufacturers.

Basically f1 is a marketing tool.

You just can't dictate what kind of marketing a company want to carry.

[EvilPhil II]

"Renault Might Disappear"

https://jalopnik.com...pear-1843609422

Edited by EvilPhil II, 23 May 2020 - 11:57.

[Clatter]

"Renault to Disappear"

https://jalopnik.com...pear-1843609422

 

You have changed the "might" to "to", big difference.

[EvilPhil II]

You have changed the "might" to "to", big difference.

Very true. Corrected.

[EvilPhil II]

France warns Renault could disappear; Nissan plans job cuts.

French finance minister Bruno Le Maire, who is considering a 5 billion euro ($5.5 billion) loan for Renault to help it through the crisis, warned on Friday the company’s future was at stake.

“Yes, Renault could disappear,” he told Europe 1 radio.

https://www.reuters....s-idUSKBN22Y0TH

It is no longer a question of if they withdraw from F1 but rather when. I suspect this is the final season. I honestly can't see how they would justify any further investment in F1 while asking for a 5 billion EUR government bail out.

In Formula e Renault Sport rebranded to Nissan recently. Could a similar strategy be utilised to save Enstone? Surely no other teams would stand in the way of the change given the circumstances.

Edited by EvilPhil II, 23 May 2020 - 12:03.

[GreenMachine]

I'm still not getting why you say shutting the plant affects 2 teams. Whether the plant shuts or not, only one team is affected.

I'm not.  I'm saying that McLaren are already re-engineering their car for the Merc.  If Renault sell the team less engine supply, the car will have to be re-engineered too, for whatever engine the new owners want.  That's all.

[Britmax]

Would it stir up the pot too much to mention the K-word? I mean, we could all do with some harmless entertainment at the moment. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.

[Maustinsj]

Do Jimmy Cagney!

[Viryfan]

France warns Renault could disappear; Nissan plans job cuts.

French finance minister Bruno Le Maire, who is considering a 5 billion euro ($5.5 billion) loan for Renault to help it through the crisis, warned on Friday the company’s future was at stake.

“Yes, Renault could disappear,” he told Europe 1 radio.

https://www.reuters....s-idUSKBN22Y0TH

It is no longer a question of if they withdraw from F1 but rather when. I suspect this is the final season. I honestly can't see how they would justify any further investment in F1 while asking for a 5 billion EUR government bail out.

In Formula e Renault Sport rebranded to Nissan recently. Could a similar strategy be utilised to save Enstone? Surely no other teams would stand in the way of the change given the circumstances.

Nissan is in an even worse situation than Renault, they will have to fire over 20 000 employees

[Hakki069]

Id be surprised if Renault stay in F1 past 2020. but anything is possible.

Edited by Hakki069, 23 May 2020 - 17:59.

[ATM]

No big sponsors to lean on and foot the bill this time, sadly. Even though Renault itself was frugal with its expenditures (compaired to rivals, that is) F1’s business plan was heavily exposed by the Covid crisis and is dragging the teams down like a lead balloon. Let’s all thank stupidly complex V6 engines and more idiotic aerodynamics for that, along with the persons who in their wisdom thought that burning money with the flamethrower is a good way to build a future.
Last but not least, special thanks to the 2012 team principals and governing body officials for mocking newcomers Fernandes and Campos in what was essentially a good idea, cut down expenses. Had it gone forward, we might have had a healthier grid.
But nooo, let’s bring forward the “pinaccle of motorsport, racing is not a granted free right, survival of he fittest” bullcrap. Sh!t has hit the fan, now everybody deal with it.

[Piif]

But does it really matter if Renault stays as long as someone buys into the Enstone team? With the cost caps coming, it might be a better time than ever to enter F1 and the team is pretty decent as well.

[Hakki069]

But does it really matter if Renault stays as long as someone buys into the Enstone team? With the cost caps coming, it might be a better time than ever to enter F1 and the team is pretty decent as well.

Yes and No of course.

Weather Renault or even Mercedes leave F1 the respective teams at Enstone and Brackley would be bought for sure thats without question.

But having as many car manufacturers racing in F1 is better for people like liberty. And they do attract certain fans and sponsors to F1.

I'm personally of the opinion getting rid of many of the car manufacturers would probably actually help the sport and produce better racing for the fans. Since everything has to be road relevant for them to justify being in F1.

Ferrari would probably quite happily go to racing V8 or V10 which would be every F1 fan dream. But that would unfortunately mean losing Renault, Mercedes and Honda which liberty wouldn't want of course.

Edited by Hakki069, 23 May 2020 - 22:16.

[Clatter]

Yes and No of course.

Weather Renault or even Mercedes leave F1 the respective teams at Enstone and Brackley would be bought for sure thats without question.

But having as many car manufacturers racing in F1 is better for people like liberty. And they do attract certain fans and sponsors to F1.

I'm personally of the opinion getting rid of many of the car manufacturers would probably actually help the sport and produce better racing for the fans. Since everything has to be road relevant for them to justify being in F1.

Ferrari would probably quite happily go to racing V8 or V10 which would be every F1 fan dream. But that would unfortunately mean losing Renault, Mercedes and Honda which liberty wouldn't want of course.

 

I do wonder how many willing buyers there are around at the moment. It may not be as sure a thing as you might think.

[Hakki069]

No thats a fair comment. The covid-19 could of changed things alot. Budget cap might make it more appealing though

Im the Mazepin rumours will start up again if Renault do quit.

Edited by Hakki069, 23 May 2020 - 22:41.

[eREr]

Do we know how this pandemic affects the other involved car manufacturers? Merc, Ferrari, Mclaren, Honda, Aston Martin? I can not believe only Renault is hit so hard by this pandemic who is the world's third biggest manufacturer (Renault group). Most of them are rather small manufacturers.

[EvilPhil II]

Ferrari stock prices continue to rise during the period.
Daimler is fine.
Aston Martin is one foot in the grave. Doubt we will see them next year in F1 or otherwise.
Honda is diverse. Probably fine.

[William Hunt]

Every car manufacturer has been hit extremely hard by COVID-19, if you just have a look at car sales and how it went to a halt worldwide since march, those sales figures are extremely shocking and really unseen, the situation is far worse as in 2009-2010 for the automobile sector. And on McLaren: don't forget that they also depend on sales of their sportscars and that also came to a complete halt.

 

The problem with the market right now, in particular for the car market, is that even after the pandemic measures like staying home are releaved, that there is a huge amount of uncertainty.People who feel insecure or uncertain about their future will not make heavy investments and a car is a large investment for most people.

Many people who had planned to purchase a car this year will likely postpone that investment because they are uncertain of their financial future so they will either try to prolongue the life of their current car or look at a second hand car.

And then there are also the people who lost their job or are about to lose their job. There are independents, in particular the horeca sector (restaurants, café's, hotels) have been hit extremely hard with many of them facing bankruptcy who are in trouble and they're also not likely to invest in a new car considering their financial uncertainty. Someone who's just lost his job will also not buy a new car. That uncertainty will probably linger for years before the market recovers.

 

So this leads to car manufacturers selling far less cars as they had anticipated and once their factories are up and running again they will face overproduction (overproduction is a very typical problem of capitalism but in particular during a market depression) so no way that they can keep all their staff at full capacity because they'll be selling less cars so they have to produce less as a result.
They key for governments and trade unions right now is keeping these factories open whilst at the same time minimising redundancies.

It's going to be a social bloodbath and for manufacturers like Honda, Mercedes or Renault F1 is probably the least of their worries right now.

Edited by William Hunt, 23 May 2020 - 23:13.

[FLB]

Honda is diverse. Probably fine.

 

Well... That's not *quite* what they're saying (they're saying they don't know yet and that it's too early to make reasonable predictions):

 

https://ca.reuters.c...s/idUSKBN22O0ON

Edited by FLB, 23 May 2020 - 23:48.

[Paco]

Every car manufacturer has been hit extremely hard by COVID-19, if you just have a look at car sales and how it went to a halt worldwide since march, those sales figures are extremely shocking and really unseen, the situation is far worse as in 2009-2010 for the automobile sector. And on McLaren: don't forget that they also depend on sales of their sportscars and that also came to a complete halt.

 

The problem with the market right now, in particular for the car market, is that even after the pandemic measures like staying home are releaved, that there is a huge amount of uncertainty.People who feel insecure or uncertain about their future will not make heavy investments and a car is a large investment for most people.

Many people who had planned to purchase a car this year will likely postpone that investment because they are uncertain of their financial future so they will either try to prolongue the life of their current car or look at a second hand car.

And then there are also the people who lost their job or are about to lose their job. There are independents, in particular the horeca sector (restaurants, café's, hotels) have been hit extremely hard with many of them facing bankruptcy who are in trouble and they're also not likely to invest in a new car considering their financial uncertainty. Someone who's just lost his job will also not buy a new car. That uncertainty will probably linger for years before the market recovers.

 

So this leads to car manufacturers selling far less cars as they had anticipated and once their factories are up and running again they will face overproduction (overproduction is a very typical problem of capitalism but in particular during a market depression) so no way that they can keep all their staff at full capacity because they'll be selling less cars so they have to produce less as a result.
They key for governments and trade unions right now is keeping these factories open whilst at the same time minimising redundancies.

It's going to be a social bloodbath and for manufacturers like Honda, Mercedes or Renault F1 is probably the least of their worries right now.

 

Fleet sales are also very important.. and they've ground to a halt and those sales that represent a huge chunk of their sales will be even slower to come back... so either factories need to reduce shifts or huge discounts to keep the manufacturing lines operational and also ensure parts suppliers even tier 1 do not go out of business..if planes aren't flying, if people aren't travelling.. far less needs for rentals.. and so on and so on... if business are in retraction or stagnant, a lot of large car sales will drop from businesses as well.. 

 

Its shocking how little the manufacturers have planned for this after SARS 1, after 2008.. guess the auto industry never learns..

 

I can see McLaren in a tough spot...Renautl surprising if True that they are truly nearly insolvent...  I would have thought they could weather this better then Williams, McLaren, Alfa..

[HPT]

Ferrari stock prices continue to rise during the period.
Daimler is fine.
Aston Martin is one foot in the grave. Doubt we will see them next year in F1 or otherwise.
Honda is diverse. Probably fine.

Pretty sure no manufacture is fine. And I can tell you first hand that Daimler is not fine. They have slashed their marketing budget by 60%, will cut an average of 20% of their workforce to as much as 50% in some countries. They have invested heavily in their ‘million-dollar’ showrooms across the globe in recent years and zero sales for the past months. They may have deeper pockets than Renault but ‘fine’ is not a word that can be used to describe them at the moment.

[Piif]

I do wonder how many willing buyers there are around at the moment. It may not be as sure a thing as you might think.

 

Maybe not so many but the pandemic will only last so long and after that,people will go back to their usual habits. Investors with that kind of money tend to look forward, not backward, and if they see a chance to pick up a team at a bargain price, I'm 100% sure someone will do it.

Edited by Piif, 24 May 2020 - 07:24.

[aray]

I fully believe by 2021, Renault will sell the team at least. 

[ensign14]

The other problem with the car market is that cars are too good nowadays.  Mine is eight years old and has never had anything go wrong with it.  About 500 miles yesterday and didn't miss a beat.  I can't see getting shot of it for years.  My last one was 12 years old by the time I got rid and the one problem was a one-off weird shorting in the electrics that blew a headlamp bulb when I went full beam.

 

There's no pressing need to upgrade these days.  If anything their best market is that of people buying cars because their kids take over their existing one.  But why buy a new car?  One year old is basically new - and someone else takes the instant depreciation hit.

 

It's a far cry from the hopeless likes of the All-Aggro when I was growing up...

[Hakki069]

Pretty sure no manufacture is fine. And I can tell you first hand that Daimler is not fine. They have slashed their marketing budget by 60%, will cut an average of 20% of their workforce to as much as 50% in some countries. They have invested heavily in their ‘million-dollar’ showrooms across the globe in recent years and zero sales for the past months. They may have deeper pockets than Renault but ‘fine’ is not a word that can be used to describe them at the moment.

Daimler was losing money to be fair even before Covid-19. Didn't they suffer 3 profit warnings last year?

Ola källenius first year in the job hasn't exactly been easy going for him.

Daimler also warned last year that things would get tough due to the amount of money needed to develop the electric and self driving cars etc.

How covid has really effected will become obvious over the next few months. Clearly there postion isn't as bad as Renault at the moment. But I wouldnt be no means say there fine and out of the woods.

And if they stay in F1 after this it's going to potentially effect the F1 team aswell. There's no way after this mercedes can even think of offering Lewis 40-50 million a year in 2021. The workers losing there jobs or having hours cut to save money in daimler and mercedes would have a head fit.

Edited by Hakki069, 24 May 2020 - 08:52.

[FirstnameLastname]

Mazepin to beat Alonso and Vettel to the seat.

[Hakki069]

Well if Mazepin buys the team or possibly even just invests in it like been rumoured aswell. Then id imagine Mazepin son will come as part of the deal. Renault could have a young and inexperienced lineup. Which to be honest is exactly the opposite of what they need if there going to get back to the front.

Ocon fine but ultimately they need a Alonso or Vettel in the other seat.

Edited by Hakki069, 27 May 2020 - 10:40.

[fed up]

Mazepin to beat Alonso and Vettel to the seat.

 

This is an interesting article:

 

https://www.foxsport...ff4b19e7b75d5f3

 

I think the penny has finally dropped for Cyril and his advisers:

 

“I’m a bit surprised about the activism of two particular F1 teams, who have pushed Daniel to sort of rush the decision. We decided not to bend over this timing and to stick to our plan. Our plan and our priority is to make a better car,” 

 

“If we had had a better car last year, probably you will not be asking me this question. And we know that if we have a better car we’ll be able to attract any driver in the future, so that’s our focus. That’s been our priority.

“The new regulation, the new deal (rules), have been our priority. Securing the future of F1 has been our priority. He’s made his decision, we’re moving on.

“We want to take the time to make sure we make the right decision. I think that there has been the first sort of domino of drivers. I expect that there may be another one, but not before a number of months.”

[Anja]

Well if Mazepin buys the team or possibly even just invests in it like been rumoured aswell. Then id imagine Mazepin son will come as part of the deal. Renault could have a young and inexperienced lineup. Which to be honest is exactly the opposite of what they need if there going to get back to the front.

Ocon fine but ultimately they need a Alonso or Vettel in the other seat.

 

Young Mazepin would have to earn a superlicense first. Which isn't completely unlikely but I wouldn't hold my breath either. After not achieving much elsewhere he was suddenly quite good in GP3 but his first year of F2 was pretty awful. 

[William Hunt]

Young Mazepin would have to earn a superlicense first. Which isn't completely unlikely but I wouldn't hold my breath either. After not achieving much elsewhere he was suddenly quite good in GP3 but his first year of F2 was pretty awful. 

 

True but this year is his biggest chance because one year later he will lose those points he earned from runner up in GP3 (and he did too that in the best car of the field but he also did beat the higher rated Illot in that team).

The thing is, Mazepin has a virtually unlimited budget, so like Latifi he can keep on trying F2 driving for good teams for multiple years until he succeeds and ... his dad is making sure he scores points in other championships to add to his tally, like the Asian F3 championship (Toyota series als an option):: super licence points are much easier to grab there. He could also pay an F1 team to let him do Friday practice session (each Friday practice drive of minimum 100km scores you 1 super licence point with a maximum of 10 in total I think so he could rack up to 10 points this way).  Mazepin was pretty good in karting from what I remember.

In the long run I think Mazepin is going to get that licence, he's not a slow driver but not one of the best talents out there either and he sometimes loses his nerves and can be pretty agressive on and off track: Mazepin had attacked and punched Callum Illot in the face during a F3 weekend a couple of years ago, surprisingly he only got banned from 1 race for it... I honestly don't like to see a driver who did this in the past in F1...

https://wtf1.com/pos...ned-hungary-f3/

Edited by William Hunt, 27 May 2020 - 12:54.

[Viryfan]

Well if Mazepin buys the team or possibly even just invests in it like been rumoured aswell. Then id imagine Mazepin son will come as part of the deal. Renault could have a young and inexperienced lineup. Which to be honest is exactly the opposite of what they need if there going to get back to the front.

Ocon fine but ultimately they need a Alonso or Vettel in the other seat.

 

Well if there is some space for a Perez-Stroll duo, there is some for a Mazepin-Ocon...