14 replies to this topic

[bigears]

I am looking for the original or full sized photograph of this image

 

*Photo removed*

 

I seem to recall it was posted in here and I am struggling to find it. I used it as an avatar from a different forum and then I had a hard drive crash and I lost the original photo. I would love to find it again! Forgive me for posting such a small image!

 

I originally labelled it as 1980_LeMans_Martini_livery so it was a helmet sitting on a 1980 Le Mans car sponsored by Martini so this might help?

 

Thank you.

Edited by bigears, 11 June 2020 - 19:05.

[Tim Murray]

Can’t help with the actual photo, but it looks like Reinhold Jöst’s helmet on the Porsche 908/936 he and Jacky Ickx drove to second place in the 1980 Le Mans 24 Hours:

[Odseybod]

From a Goodwood FoS, perhaps? Looks too posed to have happened in the heat of combat.

[Ray Bell]

The fence will be the biggest clue...

 

The kind of background you find in other pics.

[dolomite]

Have you tried searching for the image on www.tineye.com ?

[bigears]

Appreciate your replies so far. I recall the background was the engine cover being raised.

 

So I don't know if the Porsche was in the pits with the engine cover up or it was a studio shoot with the car and its engine cover being raised and the helmet placed on the side of the car. I will keep looking.

[kyle936]

I remember photos from the car's launch and in some, IIRC, Joest's helmet was on one front wing, Ickx's on the other, so that could be where the photo is from. The photos I remember were black and white, though, and I don't remember that photo (or even a detail from it) being among them, although it might have been.

 

I've tried a search in the forum, but even if it's in a forum thread it's likely to be gone, sadly, just like an awful lot of photos which have disappeared over the years.

 

I also tried dolomite's suggestion. I've never come across TinEye before, it looks like a useful resource but unfortunately the search came up blank.

 

https://tineye.com/s...1a449f85?page=1

 

Joest's 936 was labelled '908/80' at the time, I think because Porsche had given Joest the spare 936 chassis, 004, through the back door, so to speak, and they didn't have one for Kremer, their other main customer at the time, although Kremer subsequently built their own 936 with Porsche's help. I don't know if that was the real reason, and I've always wondered why Porsche couldn't just have lent Joest 936 002, which hadn't been used in 1979 and was still in the same spec as the chassis built up by Joest.

[bigears]

Thank you for the responses so far. I was looking at the photo and I noticed there is a metallic clip to keep the bodywork above the tyre.

 

I can't see anything on the Porsche 908 photos from Le Mans. Could the car be a Lancia LC1 or LC2?

 

So far I haven't found the original photo on the internet.

[2F-001]

Could the car be a Lancia LC1 or LC2?

 

Not if it really is from 1980.

 

(Lancia's Ghinzani did sometimes wear a Martini-liveried helmet, but it had the stripes all around, extending above and below the visor port - and I don't think he wore a Simpson Bandit like Joest's)

Edited by 2F-001, 08 June 2020 - 19:57.

[E1pix]

If I were you, I'd write to Mr. Joest and see if he has access to the image — or knows its origins — or has something similar to offer:

http://www.joest-rac...ntakt-impressum

 

I'm surprised TinEye didn't find it. The only way I know of that happening is if the original image has been taken off the web.

 

Photographers often remove images when they find their images all over the web — having been used without permission. Contrary to public perception these days, it is not a compliment when one's life's work is being taken advantage of in such ways.

[bigears]

Not if it really is from 1980.

 

(Lancia's Ghinzani did sometimes wear a Martini-liveried helmet, but it had the stripes all around, extending above and below the visor port - and I don't think he wore a Simpson Bandit like Joest's)

Bear in mind, I might have labelled the photo wrong with 1980 rather than 1981 or 1982 at the time?

[E1pix]

On the website listed on your profile, it is stated:

 

"Most pictures that appear in our webspace are either from our own archives or were kindly provided by others or (E1 Note: illegally) mirrored from other sites of which an extended existence was doubtful. The pictures usually come from old magazines  (E1 Note: illegally) and books  (E1 Note: illegally) and originate from various photographic archives (E1 Note: perhaps illegally and without even a photo credit) . Many original sources have become unknown over time (E1 Note: ???). 8W acknowledges that these pictures are protected by copyright laws  (E1 Note: Really?) and warns others against any (commercial) reproduction without the written permission of the copyright owner(s) (E1 Note: as you've done . 8W reproduces these pictures in a fair-use context, i.e. in small size and low resolution and without the purpose of commercial profit or gain (E1 Note: not a Fair Use definition) . We will be glad if copyright holders come forward to identify their ownership  (E1 Note: Copyright holders have to track you down?). You can contact us with your copyright queries through the e-mail address in the page header.

 

As far as the text content is concerned: any form of reproduction, in whole or in part, of text, photography (in case the photos were taken by ourselves or our contributors), and illustrations, for private or research purposes is generally permitted as long as 8W is credited as the source (E1 Note: YOU ARE NOT THE SOURCE) , for business purposes or a simple copy elsewhere on the Web definitely not."

 

 

Are you making offers of copyright clearance on works you do not own? It is not considered "Fair Use" to use another's work in the manners you've chosen to.

 

If you'd had the simple respect to ask permission to use the image you're searching for to start with, and others images you seek for your site, you would not be in this boat. In fact, you may have photographers willing to help you with quality work that would benefit your site.

 

The works of creative professionals is not yours to use as you please.

[2F-001]

Bear in mind, I might have labelled the photo wrong with 1980 rather than 1981 or 1982 at the time?

Yes, I understand - especially if you'd had in mind that it might have been a Porsche (rather than a Lancia).

But I think the helmet is more plausibly Joest's than on of the Lancia drivers'. 

[bigears]

After some discussion and thought, I have decided to remove the photo and I will continue looking for the photo myself on the Internet with the suggestions that came up in this thread.

 

Thank you everyone for their contributions in this thread.

[E1pix]

Bigears and I came to an understanding via PM.

His actions were not intentional, and it turns out that the policies on the webpage in question were those of this site — not Bigears’.

I apologize for being harsh on him. I now see it would have been more appropriate to direct my comments to Forix, whose copyright policies are as appalling as it gets for an organization that itself relies on copyright protection.

As one whose very survival relies on copyright, I implore to Autosport and its affiliates to address the concerns of artists such as myself — if only to aid my efforts in the endless task of educating the public, and prevent harsh discourse directed at site-supporting users who turn out to be innocent.

All the Best to you, Bigears.