Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

F1 Rewind Wed 10 June: 2005 Japanese Grand Prix (18:00 UTC)


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 09 June 2020 - 18:01

The latest installment of Formula 1's Wednesday-night watch-a-longs is the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix, an outstanding race that deserves repeat viewing, whether you watched it live or when the series streamed it several months(? - coronavirus-related confusion of the passage of time) ago.
 
A clean-shaven Fernando Alonso has just claimed his first World Championship for Renault, but Kimi Räikkönen is out for revenge in the generally faster but less reliable McLaren. The weather has thrown a spanner into the works, however, with a wet single-lap qualifying session mixing up the grid, and leaving them only 16th and 17th on the starting grid, with the mercurial Juan Pablo Montoya also joining them in 18th in the second McLaren.  Giancarlo Fisichella looks like a smart bet for the win in third place, behind the surely lightly-fuelled home heroes of Ralf Schumacher (Toyota) and Jenson Button (BAR-Honda).

 

As ever, the Wednesday night race broadcast will begin at seven pm UK time.

 

P.S. I'm afraid I don't have the time to produce a spotter's guide on this occasion.



Advertisement

#2 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 09 June 2020 - 18:46

They did this last year when Japan qualifying was cancelled. Imola 2005 would've been preferable!

#3 FortiFord

FortiFord
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: December 19

Posted 10 June 2020 - 10:41

The latest installment of Formula 1's Wednesday-night watch-a-longs is the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix, an outstanding race that deserves repeat viewing, whether you watched it live or when the series streamed it several months(? - coronavirus-related confusion of the passage of time) ago.
 
A clean-shaven Fernando Alonso has just claimed his first World Championship for Renault, but Kimi Räikkönen is out for revenge in the generally faster but less reliable McLaren. The weather has thrown a spanner into the works, however, with a wet single-lap qualifying session mixing up the grid, and leaving them only 16th and 17th on the starting grid, with the mercurial Juan Pablo Montoya also joining them in 18th in the second McLaren.  Giancarlo Fisichella looks like a smart bet for the win in third place, behind the surely lightly-fuelled home heroes of Ralf Schumacher (Toyota) and Jenson Button (BAR-Honda).

 

As ever, the Wednesday night race broadcast will begin at seven pm UK time.

 

P.S. I'm afraid I don't have the time to produce a spotter's guide on this occasion.

 

With all the recent talk of reverse grids, perhaps LM picked this race in order to demonstrate how exciting races are when the front runners start from the back. 



#4 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 17:58



#5 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 17:59

Goodness, the front wings look like toys after more than a decade of snowploughs.



#6 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:06

Serious Button hype from James Allen pre-race.

#7 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:07

I am excited for the race because I genuinely can’t remember it.



#8 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:09

Alas, the future was not Orange after all.



#9 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:16

It was Juan hell of an impact.

#10 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:17

No love lost between Villeneuve and Montoya.

#11 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:19

It was Juan hell of an impact.


Race over on lap Juan.

#12 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:28

Come on, Fernando



#13 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:32

Lol, Alonso gets praised as clever driving for overtaking immediately after giving the place back but still retaining enough of an advantage to then do the overtake for real.

 

How clever and universally accepted as valid such a move is bound to be for all future races.



#14 Baddoer

Baddoer
  • Member

  • 3,516 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:36

People complaining about Maldonado apparently did not see Sato in 2005.



#15 Bleu

Bleu
  • Member

  • 6,214 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:36

The collision was Sato's fault but eventual disqualification was a very harsh penalty.



#16 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:36

These shenanigans from the FIA quite possibly cost Alonso the chance to win the race.

#17 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:36

Iron girders on Sato's suspension would have saved a lot of trouble over the years.

#18 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,132 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:37

A stop for fuel but not tyres! How quaint!

#19 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:46

I do miss the days when slower cars used to be able to defend against faster ones.

Advertisement

#20 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:49

Jeeesus, that really was brave!

#21 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:49

What a driver Alonso is.



#22 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:50

Alonso said afterwards that in moments like that he always remembered that Schumacher has two kids.

#23 TN81

TN81
  • Member

  • 48 posts
  • Joined: May 20

Posted 10 June 2020 - 18:56

The most overrated race in the history of F1. It would have been long forgotten without Fisi's penultimate lap error really.



#24 Bleu

Bleu
  • Member

  • 6,214 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:02

The recent fuel predictions have been about 3-4 laps wrong of where actual later stops happened.



#25 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:10

How did Fisichella manage to lose this?

#26 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:12

FIRE



#27 TN81

TN81
  • Member

  • 48 posts
  • Joined: May 20

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:15

How did Fisichella manage to lose this?

 

The funny thing about Japan is that Fisichella was on par with Alonso speed-wise, which was a rarity in 2005/2006. He drove much better there than in Australia, where he won. The McLaren was just this fast, and Fisi made an error in the penultimate lap which helped Raikkonen, but he could have made the overtake even without that.



#28 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:35

James Allen :love:

#29 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:38

Martin knew exactly what Kimi was going to do before he did it.

#30 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:39

Hooray!



#31 Ali623

Ali623
  • Member

  • 3,530 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:40

I still don't understand why he defended into the final chicane...


Edited by Ali623, 10 June 2020 - 19:42.


#32 Clrnc

Clrnc
  • Member

  • 6,716 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:41

Terrible driving from Fisi. He threw away that win by being so defensive for nothing at the apex. 



#33 Bleu

Bleu
  • Member

  • 6,214 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:44

This pictured moment in parc ferme was great.

 

16547574079f4f0db5c74e811b73a45f.jpg



#34 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:48

I still don't understand why he defended into the final chicane...


"But it worked the lap before!"

#35 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:51

I liked the McLaren uniforms which remind me of the tracksuits sported by the Russians on skis at the start of The Spy Who Loved Me.



#36 Bleu

Bleu
  • Member

  • 6,214 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 June 2020 - 19:52

This is how Kimi's position changed from lap to lap

 

Start 17th
Lap 1 12th - Overtook Karthikeyan, Albers and Doornbos. Gained also with Sato and Barrichello going off track at turn 1
Lap 8 11th - Overtook Massa
Lap 9 10th - Overtook Pizzonia
Lap 10 9th - Overtook Villeneuve
Lap 14 7th - Overtook Klien. R Schumacher dropped behind due to pit stop
Lap 21 6th - Fisichella dropped behind due to pit stop
Lap 23 4th - Button and Alonso dropped behind due to pit stop
Lap 24 2nd - Coulthard and Webber dropped behind due to pit stop
Lap 27 6th - Overtaken by Fisichella, R Schumacher, Button and Webber during the pit stop
Lap 29 5th - R Schumacher dropped behind due to pit stop
Lap 30 4th - Overtook M Schumacher
Lap 39 3rd - Fisichella dropped behind due to pit stop
Lap 41 1st - Button and Webber dropped behind due to pit stop
Lap 46 2nd - Overtaken by Fisichella during pit stop
Lap 53 1st - Overtook Fisichella


#37 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,509 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 11 June 2020 - 08:20

Lol, Alonso gets praised as clever driving for overtaking immediately after giving the place back but still retaining enough of an advantage to then do the overtake for real.

How clever and universally accepted as valid such a move is bound to be for all future races.


Is this the one where Fernando did eventually get told to give the place back? I seem to remember getting suckered into making an identical comment last time F1 repeated this race... :stoned:

#38 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 7,467 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 11 June 2020 - 10:41

Just sat and watched this, remembered it being fantastic bit nice to see it again. It was an incredible drive from Raikkonen, but helped by the fact that the McLaren was an absolute rocket and I don’t actually think Fisichella drove too bad a race, it was just that defending into the chicane that unwittingly set up Kimi to make the pass although I suspect he’d have got him somewhere round the last lap anyway.

Also found myself not finding James Allen half as annoying as I remembered, was he really that bad? Well, except the bit where he was raving about how great Ralf Schumacher was doing and how he’d be hard to beat, before Martin pointed out that he was coming in to refuel as he was speaking and had clearly been driving on fumes.

#39 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,509 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 11 June 2020 - 10:42

James Allen knew what he was talking about and could be very insightful and witty, but he also frequently judged the tone wrong. I wonder if it was simply that he was inexperienced in the lead commentator role -- at least, compared to the polish and poise we were used to. God knows how many races Murray Walker called before he ended up being the voice of F1 on the BBC.



Advertisement

#40 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,535 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 11 June 2020 - 11:28

Is this the one where Fernando did eventually get told to give the place back? I seem to remember getting suckered into making an identical comment last time F1 repeated this race... :stoned:

 

Yes, sort of. They tell him to give it back again and according to James Allen (?) then say how the whole thing was a balls up because they then changed their minds, only by the time they had relayed this to Renault, Alonso had obeyed the original instruction.

 

I was darkly amused watching Martin B try and keep up with the twists and turns from initially praising the overtake/giveback/overtake as brilliantly clever, to Really Not On And Quite Rightly Corrected when it was clear Alonso had been told to give the place back again through to eventual embarrassed silence on the FIA's behalf.

 

e. Alonso's face - which so often eloquently expressed his feelings - was a real picture of disdain on the podium. 

 

e9jEWS8.jpg

 

I maintain it would be difficult for someone who never watched the race to be able to tell which of the two drivers in blue had seen their certain race win vanish into the long grass mere minutes before.



#41 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 23,879 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 11 June 2020 - 11:46

Yes, sort of. They tell him to give it back again and according to James Allen (?) then say how the whole thing was a balls up because they then changed their minds, only by the time they had relayed this to Renault, Alonso had obeyed the original instruction.

 

I was darkly amused watching Martin B try and keep up with the twists and turns from initially praising the overtake/giveback/overtake as brilliantly clever, to Really Not On And Quite Rightly Corrected when it was clear Alonso had been told to give the place back again through to eventual embarrassed silence on the FIA's behalf.

 

e. Alonso's face - which so often eloquently expressed his feelings - was a real picture of disdain on the podium. 

 

e9jEWS8.jpg

 

I maintain it would be difficult for someone who never watched the race to be able to tell which of the two drivers in blue had seen their certain race win vanish into the long grass mere minutes before.

They somehow missed that Alonso had given the place back.  From memory they apologised for it, but it stuffed his race.

 

JV should have been penalised for running Montoya off track into a fairly nasty accident; especially galling as JV had cut the chicane entirely just beforehand.  Would have been nice seeing him try and fight his way through the field.



#42 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,268 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 11 June 2020 - 14:10

"But it worked the lap before!"

Thing is, the lap before it allowed Kimi to have a run at him into turn 1. You'd think he'd have learned.

Also, why was Fisi so slow in the last five or six laps? He completely threw it away.

#43 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 45,984 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 11 June 2020 - 14:26

Fisi's pace didn't drop off much at all during the last few laps.

 

Fisi-Kimi.png

 

(From the race history chart on Forix. Fisi is the blue line, Kimi the grey.)

 

Giancarlo's pace shows a natural progression rather than suddenly dropping off. Kimi was just very fast in that last stint.



#44 SB

SB
  • Member

  • 2,430 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 12 June 2020 - 15:18

It's amazing to realize that, in the old days there were so many more extra grandstands around the track. And more importantly all stands , even as remote as those around the Spoon corner, were filled full of spectators !