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Lola T460 photo identification


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#1 MCS

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 20:35

Ignore the erroneous T360 title.  Can anybody identify the driver, the others around the back of the car and the date / circuit?

 

On the basis that the picture is for sale on eBay, I can only post a link: 

 

https://www.ebay.co....AoAAOSwFlheqzGk

 

Thanks,

Mark



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#2 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 05:26

I don't know if this helps, but here is a gallery of Kevin Skinner's photos of the May 30, 1976 Formula Atlantic race at Westwood.  Car #26 was Hector Rebaque in a Lola T460, apparently HU1.  Maybe the same car ?  Apparently, his first race in the car was at Edmonton May 16, 1976.

 

https://theadworks.z....com/p583943418

 

Vince H.


Edited by raceannouncer2003, 14 June 2020 - 05:28.


#3 Tim Murray

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:31

Is it not perhaps a T450 (the F2 version) rather than the Atlantic T460? The T460 had a slab-sided monocoque:

DF68-AA79-A6-E9-44-F7-AECA-EC6-BC21-C3-E

while the T450 was bulkier, presumably to accommodate larger fuel tanks:

8988-F516-462-E-4-BE2-83-AF-549364663284

#4 john winfield

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 12:32

The eBay posting mentions Magny Cours. If that's correct, this would be the earlier circuit prior to its revamp as a home for the French GP. And, as far as I know, DPPI is a french photographic agency, so this does look like a french test/shake down.  Perhaps the best bet would be to send Charles Chadwick (aka motoring man boutique) a message. He might know more.

 

(In the distance there is an old tower. This looks to me like one of the prettier french water towers. Magny Cours has a 'Chateau d'Eau' corner, but the photos I've seen from Grand Prix days show something far more utilitarian. But still grander than the sombre metal structure we had at Silverstone, just outside Abbey.  :) )


Edited by john winfield, 14 June 2020 - 12:32.


#5 68targa

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 13:22

There is a really good Lola Heritage website which may offer some contacts for you to try - but I am sure you already know about it :)

http://www.lolaherit...2018/index.html

#6 2F-001

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 14:54

(In the distance there is an old tower. This looks to me like one of the prettier french water towers. Magny Cours has a 'Chateau d'Eau' corner, but the photos I've seen from Grand Prix days show something far more utilitarian. But still grander than the sombre metal structure we had at Silverstone, just outside Abbey.  :) )

 

Do you mean the tower with the conical top (top right, on horizon)?

There is still a structure of that shape a way from the southern end of the circuit. But I didn't think that was the water tower? The thing I *thought* was the tower when I've been there was a lower, dumpier looking circular thing with a flat (open?) top and a ring of narrow brick arches around its base; but that was just my assumption, and I don't recall it being visible from the track.

 

Whatever, your eagle-eyed spot lends credence to it being at Magny Cours.

 

EDIT:

I guess my 'assumption' was wrong - there is a taller pointy-top structure, as per the picture, still extant on Google Earth view, which looks plausibly like a water amenity, due East of the grandstand overlooking the eponymous corner (oh, and it is sited on a 'Rue de Chateau d'Eau' too...). Having said that, the smaller, and quite possibly older, structure I had in mind is very much closer to the circuit - just outside the site boundary near Chateau d'Eau corner - so who knows which it was named after?


Edited by 2F-001, 14 June 2020 - 16:01.


#7 MCS

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 15:27

Thanks everybody,  I've solved it.  Picture taken at Magny Cours in 1976 and it's Yves Courage, who was about to use the Lola T450 BMW for hillclimbing!

 

Here's another link:  https://i76.servimg....93/lola_t26.jpg



#8 Mallory Dan

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 16:06

HU4?



#9 E1pix

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 16:54

Is it not perhaps a T450 (the F2 version) rather than the Atlantic T460? The T460 had a slab-sided monocoque:DF68-AA79-A6-E9-44-F7-AECA-EC6-BC21-C3-E
while the T450 was bulkier, presumably to accommodate larger fuel tanks:8988-F516-462-E-4-BE2-83-AF-549364663284

Thanks Tim, precisely what I was thinking.

Were F2 race distances longer than Atlantic races in the day? I haven’t access to my archives now, but my memory is that Atlantic races in the States were around 100 km.

#10 MCS

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 18:45

HU4?

Good question.  HU4 was the Warsteiner car for Roland Binder. The Ardmore car was definitely HU3 and the ATS car was HU2, which means this was actually HU1.

 

EDIT:  HU3 / HU1 info probably wrong - see further down thread!


Edited by MCS, 15 June 2020 - 15:47.


#11 GazChed

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 19:02

Formula Two races were much longer than Formula Atlantic. In the seventies and eighties Thruxton's Formula Two races were run over 55 laps, a distance of just over 208 kilometres. Formula Atlantic races in the same period were between 15 and 22 laps a maximum of just over 50 kilometres.

From memory whenever someone was considering converting an Atlantic car to Formula Two a larger fuel tank was one of the essential modifications.

#12 E1pix

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 19:04

Thanks Bud, that explains it!

#13 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 14:45

French articles show this car as HU3, and one recent article even showed its chassis plate.  It is still running in French hillclimbs.

 

Lola records show the T450s were as follows:

 

HU1: Ardmore Racing

HU2: ATS

HU3: Heini Mader [so Yves Courage]

HU4: Bill Bradley [so Roland Binder]



#14 MCS

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 15:08

Intriguing.  Thanks Allen.  If there is a picture of a chassis plate, then I am wrong on HU1 and HU3.

 

So where is the Ardmore car now then, do we know?

 

EDIT:  Adrian Russell had the ex-Ardmore car and it shows as HU1 (and I had forgotten that), so HU3 is the Courage car (all of this based on Lola building just four and not five T450s and not forgetting Mallock's big crash in HU1 of course)...


Edited by MCS, 15 June 2020 - 15:43.


#15 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 16:24

Mark, after Adrian Russell, HU1 went sprinting and hillclimbing with David Render, then to Jonathan Skinner and Antony Lane for sprints in 1983, then Mike Lane for the same in 1986, and then to Rod Fisher in 1988.   The last I have on it was 1989, when Fisher was still using it.  Then I lose track of it, but by 2005 it was reported to be with Dave Dedrickson in the northwest US.

 

EDIT: Dave Dedrickson still has it, having bought it from Rod Fisher in 2001.


Edited by Allen Brown, 25 June 2020 - 10:24.


#16 MCS

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 15:20

Good to see that Allen has added details to ORC: https://www.oldracin....com/lola/t450/

 

And I am beginning to understand at least my confusion regarding HU3! 

 

The Lola Heritage site suggests that the third chassis was the Ardmore car:

'The third car went to the Ardmore Racing team who were running Ray Mallock'

 

as does the F2 Register:

European Championship for F2 Drivers, Round 2 Thruxton Circuit, Andover, Great Britain

DNS 36 Ian Ashley, GBR Ardmore Racing Lola T450 - Ford BDX/Swindon HU-3   1'13.91"


Edited by MCS, 29 June 2020 - 15:23.