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#1 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 18:04

I am working on the Formula One chassis stats of Osella and I'm having trouble with the chassis number stats of the 1985-1987 seasons in particular. I'm trying to figure out which car was used at every GP weekend but since Osella was well known for reusing parts of old cars on their new ones this is not that easy.

 

Perhaps there is an Osella expert out here that can help me? Or someone who has archived all these stats. Any help is always appreciated.

 

I know there have been threads about Osella before but since the stats on there differ a lot I thought I started a new one.


Edited by Jahn1234567890, 19 June 2020 - 12:22.


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#2 Michael Ferner

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 21:22

Ahh, yes! Osella...

 

Pretty recently (a year or two ago) I set myself the same task, getting a grip on those fiendishly unruly Osella type and chassis numbers in the mid eighties. I don't know any longer how much time I spent on the problem, but I still recall the disgust I gave up in. :mad:

 

Be interested in what you find out!



#3 Blue6ix

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 12:28

I am working on the Formula One chassis stats of Osella and I'm having trouble with the chassis number stats of the 1985-1987 seasons in particular. I'm trying to figure out which car was used at every GP weekend but since Osella was well known for reusing parts of old cars on their new ones this is not that easy.

 

Perhaps there is an Osella expert out here that can help me? Or someone who has archived all these stats. Any help is always appreciated.

 

I know there have been threads about Osella before but since the stats on there differ a lot I thought I started a new one.

 

What particular chassis number you're looking for or require or are in need of?

 

Question is quite fascinating since Osella sure had many of them and at the same time actually didn't since it was quite a meagre team for most of it's existence even amongst the meagre teams of the grid.

 

Years are told of course, but which of them is causing most concern?

 

I'm remembering that some of those year's info for them were submitted to this forum, but they were quite of a many years ago.

 

One of them had it's info for an entire racing season.

 

Osella 02 for 1985 for example, was used by Christian Danner, Allen Berg and Alex Caffi in 1986 and finally it's last swansong was San Marino Grand Prix 1987 which Gabriele Tarquini did drive that thing.

 

Originally driver of it were of course Piercarlo Ghinzani for so-calledly 'prime due gare' back in 1985.



#4 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 13:48

 

What particular chassis number you're looking for or require or are in need of?

 

Question is quite fascinating since Osella sure had many of them and at the same time actually didn't since it was quite a meagre team for most of it's existence even amongst the meagre teams of the grid.

 

Years are told of course, but which of them is causing most concern?

 

I'm remembering that some of those year's info for them were submitted to this forum, but they were quite of a many years ago.

 

One of them had it's info for an entire racing season.

 

Osella 02 for 1985 for example, was used by Christian Danner, Allen Berg and Alex Caffi in 1986 and finally it's last swansong was San Marino Grand Prix 1987 which Gabriele Tarquini did drive that thing.

 

Originally driver of it were of course Piercarlo Ghinzani for so-calledly 'prime due gare' back in 1985.

 

The main thing I'm looking for is all the chassis numbers from the three years I mentioned (1985-1987). I would like to know which chassis was used by which driver at all the races. I have no Osella chassis number stats from 1984 onwards.

 

So I also don't have the chassis number stats from 1984 and 1988-1990 but it is pretty clear which car was used at which race. So for now I full focus on 1985-1987

 

For example for 1985 I currently have these stats.

 

FA1F was raced by Ghinzani at Brazil, Portugal and San Marino. Ghinzani also drove the car in practice at Monaco and Rothengatter drove the car in practice at Monza and Zandvoort

 

For all the other races Ghinzani and Rothengatter drove the new FA1G.

 

So I guess chassis 02 for 1985 would be the FA1F/02?

 

1986 is a pretty big mess as Osella swapped around the FA1F, FA1G and the FA1H

 

I'm pretty sure the FA1H was only raced twice by Ghinzani at the French and British Grand Prix when it was destroyed. It probably was used in practice at different races but do not (as of yet) have this info

 

1987 is a bit more straightforward. Caffi drove all races in the FA1I except for France when he drove the FA1G. I have Tarquini in the FA1F at San Marino. And Forini in the FA1G at Monza and Estoril. I don't know about Jerez because I have no pictures of Osella from that race.

 

This is the info I currently have. I could of course be wrong on some areas.


Edited by Jahn1234567890, 21 June 2020 - 15:57.


#5 uechtel

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 06:54

Achim Schlang in his yearbooks gives the model designations, but I don´t know how reliable this is:

 

1985

FA 1 F Brasil to Monaco

FA 1 G Canada to Australia

 

1986

Ghinzani:

FA 1 G/85 Brasil to Belgium to Detroit, Germany to Australia

FA 1 H/86 Canada, France to Great Britain

Danner:

FA 1 G/85 Brazil to Monaco, Canada

FA 1 H/86 Belgium

Berg:

FA 1 G/85 Detroit

FA 1 F/85 France to Australia

 

For 1987 he givess chassis numbers for the race:

Caffi:

FA 1 G 02 Brazil

FA 1 I 01 San Marino to Detroit, Great Britain to Hungary, Italy to

HA 1 H 01 France, Austria

Tarquini:

FA 1 G 01 San Marino

Forini:

FA 1 H 01 Italy

FA 1 I 02 Portugal to Japan

as the cars weren´t qualified for Spain and Australia, no chassis identities are given, only model types FA 1 I

 

Hope this helps...



#6 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 19:55

Thanks for your reply.

 

I have had some help from forum member Henk Vasmel and the past few days I've been studying Osella pictures from 1985-1987.

 

With all the stats I currently have I have come to these conclusions:

 

1985:

 

Ghinzani:

FA1F/F2 at Brazil, Portugal and San Marino

FA1G/G1 from Monaco onwards 

 

FA1G/G1 in practice at San Marino

FA1F/F2 in practice at Monaco

 

Rothengatter:

FA1G/G1 at all races except for Belgium when he drove the FA1F/F2 (backup car) after damaging the FA1G/G2 in the warm-up

 

FA1F/F2 in practice at the Netherlands, Italy and European GP

 

1986

Ghinzani:

FA1F/F1 from Brazil to Detroit.

FA1H/H1 in France and Great Britain

FA1G/G1 for the rest of the season

 

FA1H/H1 in practice at Detroit

 

Danner:

FA1G/G1 in Brazil, Spain, San Marino, Monaco and Canada

FA1H/H1 at Belgium

 

FA1F/F1 in practice at San Marino

FA1G/G1 in practice at Belgium

 

Berg:

FA1G/G1 at Detroit, France and Great Britain

FA1F/F1 for the rest of the races

 

FA1F/F1 in practice at France and Great Britain

 

Caffi:

FA1F/F1 at Italy

 

1987

Caffi:

FA1I/I1 for all races except for France when he drove the FA1G/G1

FA1G/G1 at third start in Austria

 

FA1G/G1 in practice at Brazil, Belgium, Detroit, Great Britain, Austria and Australia

 

Taqrquini:

FA1F/F1 at San Marino

 

Forini:

FA1G/G1 at Italy

Not sure on cars at Portugal and Spain. Car looks to be an FA1I but as far as I know Osella only built one FA1I.

 

                  

I must say I am not a 100% sure on Caffi's car at France 1987. Caffi drove the backup car at France. I have not been able to find (good) pictures to prove or disprove this.

 

Some of these were quite tricky. for example, all the pictures of Allen Berg at the French GP from 1986 were in an FA1F. But then I found some pictures of the first lap of the race and Berg was definitely in an FA1G. 

The same goes for Berg at the British GP. Most pictures show him in an FA1F. But the wreckage of car no.22 (after the start crash) is definitely the FA1G. 

 

Feedback is always appreciated


Edited by Jahn1234567890, 28 June 2020 - 19:11.


#7 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 04:43

Have you been in touch with Allen Berg?  Hopefully, you could reach him through his racing school.  Here is the website:

 

https://www.allenbergracingschools.com

 

Vince H.



#8 uechtel

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 06:46

Some of these were quite tricky. for example, all the pictures of Allen Berg at the French GP from 1986 were in an FA1F. But then I found some pictures of the first lap of the race and Berg was definitely in an FA1G. 

The same goes for Berg at the British GP. Most pictures show him in an FA1F. But the wreckage of car no.22 (after the start crash) is definitely the FA1G. 

 

 

I have to say I am very impressed. How do you recognize the "F" from the "G"? I have to admit I never even tried, as it is always stated, that the older cars were uprated to more or less current state.



#9 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 09:06

 

Have you been in touch with Allen Berg?  Hopefully, you could reach him through his racing school.  Here is the website:

 

https://www.allenbergracingschools.com

 

Vince H.

 

 

I have not. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll keep that in mind.



#10 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 09:31

 

 

I have to say I am very impressed. How do you recognize the "F" from the "G"? I have to admit I never even tried, as it is always stated, that the older cars were uprated to more or less current state.

 

The main difference between the FA1F and the FA1G are the sidepods. Overall the FA1F is a much bulkier car than the FA1G. The old cars were indeed updated over time. Going through the pictures of the FA1F between 1984-1987 you can see different front and rear wings. But the original design remains clearly visable. Bellow two pictures of both cars in a somewhat similar angle.

 

Ghinzani-Brazil-1986.jpg

 

Ghinzani in The Osella FA1F at Brazil 1986

 

Danner-Brazil-1986.jpg

 

Danner in the FA1G at Brazil 1986



#11 ensign14

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 10:00

That Brazil pic is fascinating, because it looks like Osella ran out of their own numbers, and borrowed a job lot from Ferrari.  :lol:



#12 Michael Ferner

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 10:17

Good job! :up:

 

I think comparing photos is probably the best way to make progress, but (good) Osella pics are scarce like hen's teeth! Another possibility would be to scan magazines for Osella news, but again, there's just not enough to be found, even with effort. I always planned to go through my collection of 1986 MSA, when Danner drove the second Osella, and while I'm sure there's some nuggets of information to be found, I could never muster the energy or time to go for it, mostly for fear of slim findings I guess.

 

Re Caffi at Ricard in '87, there's a big picture of his car stranded with a broken rear suspension in AUTOCOURSE, an incident which took place Friday morning if the accompanying text is to believed, and while the view is only from behind, you can still see the broader rollover bar from the older car, whereas the '87 car had a much slimmer version. That in itself is already surprising, since all sources agree that the FA1I appeared at Ricard with major (for Osella standards) modifications, so why do they start practice with the older car? Maybe the new car was already sidelined with some issues, I don't know (maybe Italian magazines have more info), but that rear suspension was certainly easy to fix, and the car is not damaged at all beyond that and perhaps a few related issues, like driveshaft or upright damage. There's also a photograph of the Sunday start in AUTOCOURSE, but as usual, the cars from the rear of the grid are almost invisible through the dust and exhaust fumes, but you can still make out the Osella, and while it appears to look like the narrow rollover bar, the car very clearly has the somewhat wider and white-topped cockpit surround of the FA1G, and a large yellow band lower around the "turret", which I believe the newer car never had.



#13 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 10:50

That Brazil pic is fascinating, because it looks like Osella ran out of their own numbers, and borrowed a job lot from Ferrari.  :lol:

 

Ah Yes. I only just noticed that!



#14 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 12:12

Good job! :up:

 

I think comparing photos is probably the best way to make progress, but (good) Osella pics are scarce like hen's teeth! Another possibility would be to scan magazines for Osella news, but again, there's just not enough to be found, even with effort. I always planned to go through my collection of 1986 MSA, when Danner drove the second Osella, and while I'm sure there's some nuggets of information to be found, I could never muster the energy or time to go for it, mostly for fear of slim findings I guess.

 

Re Caffi at Ricard in '87, there's a big picture of his car stranded with a broken rear suspension in AUTOCOURSE, an incident which took place Friday morning if the accompanying text is to believed, and while the view is only from behind, you can still see the broader rollover bar from the older car, whereas the '87 car had a much slimmer version. That in itself is already surprising, since all sources agree that the FA1I appeared at Ricard with major (for Osella standards) modifications, so why do they start practice with the older car? Maybe the new car was already sidelined with some issues, I don't know (maybe Italian magazines have more info), but that rear suspension was certainly easy to fix, and the car is not damaged at all beyond that and perhaps a few related issues, like driveshaft or upright damage. There's also a photograph of the Sunday start in AUTOCOURSE, but as usual, the cars from the rear of the grid are almost invisible through the dust and exhaust fumes, but you can still make out the Osella, and while it appears to look like the narrow rollover bar, the car very clearly has the somewhat wider and white-topped cockpit surround of the FA1G, and a large yellow band lower around the "turret", which I believe the newer car never had.

 

Thanks for the info. But it is the new car (FA1I) that has the broader roll bar. The slimmer roll bar is the same one like the picture above of Danner in the FA1G. So I guess the new car broke down? That would make more sense since Osella did indeed appear at Paul Ricard with major modifications. The car at the start appearing with the smaller roll bar would match with the FA1G. The new car did have the same yellow band at some of the early 1987 races. At least at Imola, Monaco and Spa. The new car did not have the yellow band at Detroit so probably also not at France, but that's just a guess.

 

Alex-Caffi-France-1987.jpg

 

Would this be that pic of Caffi on friday? This is definitely the new car (FA1I).



#15 Michael Ferner

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 12:38

Yes, that's the pic.

 

I can see where I went wrong with the rollover bar, I only checked two other pictures and, as it happens, picked two wrong ones in haste! :blush:

 

The one from Imola actually showed Tarquini's car (so, not FA1F??), and the one from Monza Forini!



#16 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 13:26

Yes, that's the pic.

 

I can see where I went wrong with the rollover bar, I only checked two other pictures and, as it happens, picked two wrong ones in haste! :blush:

 

The one from Imola actually showed Tarquini's car (so, not FA1F??), and the one from Monza Forini!

 

I definitely think the car Tarquini drove at Imola was an Osella FA1F/F1. The same car driven by Allen Berg at some races in 1986. The roll bar on the FA1F is different than the one on the FA1G and the FA1I. Below two pictures of the FA1F/F1

 

Tarquini-Imola-1987.jpg

 

Tarquini in the FA1F at Imola 1987

 

Berg-Hockenheim-1986.jpg

 

Berg in the FA1F at Hockenheim 1986


Edited by Jahn1234567890, 27 June 2020 - 13:31.


#17 Rob G

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 19:31

According to Autocourse:

 

1985
FA1F-01: Spare at Rio & Estoril

FA1F-02: Primary at Rio & Estoril. Spare remainder of season (raced at Imola and Spa)

FA1G-01: Primary from Imola onwards

 

1986

FA1F-01: Ghinzani Rio through Detroit; spare at Paul Ricard; Berg at Hockenheim, Budapest, Osterreichring; Caffi at Monza; Berg at Estoril, Mexico City, Adelaide

FA1G-01: Danner Rio through Monaco; spare at Spa; Berg Paul Ricard and Brands Hatch; Ghinzani Hockenheim through end of season

FA1H-01: Danner Spa and Montreal; Berg at Detroit; Ghinzani Paul Ricard and Brands Hatch

 

1987

FA1F-01: Spare at Imola, Monza, Estoril and Jerez

FA1G-01: Spare at Rio; Tarquini at Imola; spare Spa through Osterreichring (raced by Caffi at Paul Ricard); Forini Monza, Estoril and Jerez; spare Mexico City through end of season

FA1I-01: Caffi all season



#18 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 27 June 2020 - 20:57

According to Autocourse:

 

1985
FA1F-01: Spare at Rio & Estoril

FA1F-02: Primary at Rio & Estoril. Spare remainder of season (raced at Imola and Spa)

FA1G-01: Primary from Imola onwards

 

1986

FA1F-01: Ghinzani Rio through Detroit; spare at Paul Ricard; Berg at Hockenheim, Budapest, Osterreichring; Caffi at Monza; Berg at Estoril, Mexico City, Adelaide

FA1G-01: Danner Rio through Monaco; spare at Spa; Berg Paul Ricard and Brands Hatch; Ghinzani Hockenheim through end of season

FA1H-01: Danner Spa and Montreal; Berg at Detroit; Ghinzani Paul Ricard and Brands Hatch

 

1987

FA1F-01: Spare at Imola, Monza, Estoril and Jerez

FA1G-01: Spare at Rio; Tarquini at Imola; spare Spa through Osterreichring (raced by Caffi at Paul Ricard); Forini Monza, Estoril and Jerez; spare Mexico City through end of season

FA1I-01: Caffi all season

 

Thanks for this. I highly regard Autocourse and they are mostly right with these stats as well.

 

1985 is spot on.

1986: Danner and Berg drove the FA1G and not the FA1H at Montreal and Detroit respectively. I have pictures from both cars on race day to back this up. Can post it if anyone wants me to. The rest is correct.

1987 is mostly correct. Tarquini drove the FA1F at Imola as I mentioned in earlier posts. And I'm not sure on Franco Forini at Portugal and Jerez as pictures show him in an FA1I.

 

Would anybody know if Osella build more than one FA1I? Looking at pictures from the 1987 Portugal GP it would have to be the case as Forini and Caffi both drove such a car during the race.



#19 uechtel

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 06:53

The main difference between the FA1F and the FA1G are the sidepods. Overall the FA1F is a much bulkier car than the FA1G. The old cars were indeed updated over time. Going through the pictures of the FA1F between 1984-1987 you can see different front and rear wings. But the original design remains clearly visable. Bellow two pictures of both cars in a somewhat similar angle.

 

Ghinzani-Brazil-1986.jpg

 

Ghinzani in The Osella FA1F at Brazil 1986

 

Danner-Brazil-1986.jpg

 

Danner in the FA1G at Brazil 1986

Thank you very much for the illustrative explanation!



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#20 funformula

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 10:55

Good job! :up:

 

I think comparing photos is probably the best way to make progress, but (good) Osella pics are scarce like hen's teeth! Another possibility would be to scan magazines for Osella news, but again, there's just not enough to be found, even with effort. I always planned to go through my collection of 1986 MSA, when Danner drove the second Osella, and while I'm sure there's some nuggets of information to be found, I could never muster the energy or time to go for it, mostly for fear of slim findings I guess.

.

 

IIRC I read back then (probably in MSA) when Danner came new to Osella in 1986 he had the choice between the FA1F and FA1G, He chose the FA1G because it was the new car and he was therefore hoping to have an immediate advantage over his teammate...just to find out that FA1G was a lot heavier (about 40kg) than FA1F.
 



#21 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 13:47

FA1F-01: T-car in Brazil and Portugal 1985,  In 1986: Ghinzani race car in Brazil up to Detroit, T-Car in France, Berg race car from Germany up to Austria, then for Caffi at Monza and Portugal up to Adelaide for Berg. In 1987 T-car at San Marino, Monza, Estoril and Jerez.

 

FA1F-02: Ghinzani race car in Brazil and Portugal 1985. T-car for rest of the season, but raced by Ghinzani at Imola and Rothengatter at Spa. It was also spare for Ghinzani at Spa at first attempt.

 

FA1G-01: Ghinzani race care Monaco up to Silverstone. It was intended race car for him at Imola but raced FA1F-02 and at Spa cancelled race. Race car for Rothengatter rest of season, except Spa postponed race where he had to use FA1F-02. In 1986 race car for Danner from Brazil up to Monaco, T-car at Spa. For Berg in France and Brands Hatch. Rest of season race car for Ghinzani. In 1987 T-car in Brazil, raced by Tarquini at Imola and T-car at Spa up to Adelaide, but raced at France by Caffi as well as by Forini at Monza, Estoril and Jerez.

 

FA1H-01: Raced by Danner at Spa and Montreal, by Berg at Detroit and by Ghinzani at Paul Ricard and Silverstone where it was written off.

 

FA1I-01: Raced full 1987 season by Caffi, only exception being France.

 

So Osella made us in following years of chassis:

1985: FA1F-01 and 02 and FA1G-01

1986: FA1F-01, FA1G-01 and FA1H-01

1987: FA1F-01, FA1G-01 and FA1I-01



#22 Jahn1234567890

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 19:30

FA1F-01: T-car in Brazil and Portugal 1985,  In 1986: Ghinzani race car in Brazil up to Detroit, T-Car in France, Berg race car from Germany up to Austria, then for Caffi at Monza and Portugal up to Adelaide for Berg. In 1987 T-car at San Marino, Monza, Estoril and Jerez.

 

FA1F-02: Ghinzani race car in Brazil and Portugal 1985. T-car for rest of the season, but raced by Ghinzani at Imola and Rothengatter at Spa. It was also spare for Ghinzani at Spa at first attempt.

 

FA1G-01: Ghinzani race care Monaco up to Silverstone. It was intended race car for him at Imola but raced FA1F-02 and at Spa cancelled race. Race car for Rothengatter rest of season, except Spa postponed race where he had to use FA1F-02. In 1986 race car for Danner from Brazil up to Monaco, T-car at Spa. For Berg in France and Brands Hatch. Rest of season race car for Ghinzani. In 1987 T-car in Brazil, raced by Tarquini at Imola and T-car at Spa up to Adelaide, but raced at France by Caffi as well as by Forini at Monza, Estoril and Jerez.

 

FA1H-01: Raced by Danner at Spa and Montreal, by Berg at Detroit and by Ghinzani at Paul Ricard and Silverstone where it was written off.

 

FA1I-01: Raced full 1987 season by Caffi, only exception being France.

 

So Osella made us in following years of chassis:

1985: FA1F-01 and 02 and FA1G-01

1986: FA1F-01, FA1G-01 and FA1H-01

1987: FA1F-01, FA1G-01 and FA1I-01

 

Thanks for your reply. Most of these stats are correct. However the FA1H was only raced three times. Both Danner and Berg raced FA1G/01 at Montreal and Detroit respectively.

 

Christian-Danner-Montreal-1986.jpg

 

Danner in the FA1G at Montreal (starting from the pits)

 

Allen-Berg-Detroit-1986.png

 

Screenshot of Allen Berg in the FA1G (No. 22) at the warm-up lap of the Detroit GP.