1843 replies to this topic

[charly0418]

Pérez should get a N/A , didn’t qualify and didn’t race lol

[Oho]

On a race like this, I wonder what more Kimi could done on the race to get a proper rating? He drove that really slow Alfa and won both Ferraris fair and square.

 

I guess he should not have made a mistake in all but single shot qualifying..... In its present format qualifying and qualifying gaps are really noisy way to evaluate drivers.

[TheAviator]

These are some emabrassing scores from AMUS. Really are...

[Ultraviolet]

Previous races (and decade) have shown that the Mercedes is the faster car
Max just did a great job setting it up or the Mercedes boys got it wrong. So, extra point for Max or a downgrade for Lewis and Valterri? What's your choice?

My choice is that, as we have been told, Mercedes had to turn down the engine this weekend, so the car was down on power and Bottas and Lewis did what they could with it on a track where overtaking is impossible.

[Requiem84]

My choice is that, as we have been told, Mercedes had to turn down the engine this weekend, so the car was down on power and Bottas and Lewis did what they could with it on a track where overtaking is impossible.

Lewis messed up S3 in Q - slower than his previous best, losing out pole there.

Secondly, Lewis not being able to keep up with Bottas.. -1. Or are we giving compensation points for corona?

[shure]

My choice is that, as we have been told, Mercedes had to turn down the engine this weekend, so the car was down on power and Bottas and Lewis did what they could with it on a track where overtaking is impossible.

Not a significant drop, according to Mercedes themselves:

 

"[It was] not an amount that's going to determine the race result," Shovlin said.

"You're talking significantly less than a tenth of a second, so not the difference between first and second."

 

https://www.motorspo...mpaign=widget-6

[Ivanhoe]

No wonder Lewis and Bottas didn’t even notice it. Looks like they couldn’t make the car work, rather than a lack of PU performance. I think I read somewhere Wolf saying they had a lot of oversteer all weekend.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 14 December 2020 - 18:42.

[Marklar]

My choice is that, as we have been told, Mercedes had to turn down the engine this weekend, so the car was down on power and Bottas and Lewis did what they could with it on a track where overtaking is impossible.

There is also taking recent events: Bottas has been crap since Sochi. Do we think that he really suddenly did better now? That he all of a sudden drove his best race of the season (first time quicker than Lewis)? Or would a fully Covid recovered Lewis done what he always did and gapped him properly and thus fought Max for the win?

Of course the other side of the medal is Albon: it was his closest qualifying and one of his closest races relative to Max. There is also the McLarens being close in qualifying to the top. This all doesnt really indicate that Max had his best weekend either.

It depends on what suits your narrative the best. I do think though that Merc wasnt as far off on race day as it looked like. Max often can maintain gaps to Bottas even in normal races, and a large part of the final gap was traffic management. Combine that with Lewis quite obviously not at his best and you get the picture. Quali might be more representative.

Edited by Marklar, 14 December 2020 - 18:16.

[Afaf]

Hamilton qualifies and finishes 3rd, behind his teammate and in the best car = 9/10. Lol

[as65p]

Hamilton qualifies and finishes 3rd, behind his teammate and in the best car = 9/10. Lol

Well, he gets the COVID bonus, from some angle I can even understand that. Then again, I could also understand dropping him two points for the silliness to come back half-ill to a race that meant nothing, and in which he also achieved next to nothing.

Edited by as65p, 14 December 2020 - 22:31.

[ARTGP]

AMuS

Max Verstappen: 10/10
Valtteri Bottas: 9/10
Lewis Hamilton: 9/10
Alexander Albon: 9/10
Lando Norris: 9/10
Carlos Sainz: 8/10
Daniel Ricciardo: 8/10
Pierre Gasly: 8/10
Esteban Ocon: 7/10
Lance Stroll: 5/10
Daniil Kvyat: 6/10
Kimi Räikkönen: 8/10
Charles Leclerc: 6/10
Sebastian Vettel: 6/10
George Russell: 7/10
Antonio Giovinazzi: 6/10
Nicholas Latifi: 5/10
Kevin Magnussen: 5/10
Pietro Fittipaldi: 6/10
Sergio Perez: 6/10

 

 

 

This is practically a carbon copy of the finishing order....try harder Amus....Not even Lewis would give himself a 9/10 this past weekend. And Albon...a 9? Let's not lose hold of reality...

Edited by ARTGP, 15 December 2020 - 04:31.

[Ultraviolet]

Well, he gets the COVID bonus, from some angle I can even understand that. Then again, I could also understand dropping him two points for the silliness to come back half-ill to a race that meant nothing, and in which he also achieved next to nothing.

Basically, Lewis drove as a competent leading midfielder, not making any mistakes, maybe not getting quite the maximum out of the car, or maybe the car wasn't quite there this weekend. If it wasn't Lewis, a 7-8 would not be controversial for that drive. More that that is a bit silly. Less than that is marking him on the basis that we assume he will do superhuman things every race, and penalising him for not doing so.

[shure]

Basically, Lewis drove as a competent leading midfielder, not making any mistakes, maybe not getting quite the maximum out of the car, or maybe the car wasn't quite there this weekend. If it wasn't Lewis, a 7-8 would not be controversial for that drive. More that that is a bit silly. Less than that is marking him on the basis that we assume he will do superhuman things every race, and penalising him for not doing so.

There was nothing Lewis did that was better than Leclerc, yet there's a three point difference between them.  Three points!  Norris was arguably the best qualifier on Saturday and didn't put a wheel wrong on Sunday.  Yet again gets the same as Lewis who was out-qualified and finished behind his team mate.  And did Bottas really deserve a 9?  For what, exactly?

 

Agree with you that a 7 would be a reasonable score for Lewis, with perhaps an 8 for Bottas for beating his team mate.  Neither deserved a 9 and Sainz should not have scored less than either.  The Ferrari pair were also scored quite harshly, I feel, unless something happened in the closing stages that I missed?

[Speedometer]

The-Race's  top 10

 

https://the-race.com...rivers-of-2020/

 

 

And Chandhok's top 10

 

https://www.skysport...the-2020-season

[Requiem84]

There was nothing Lewis did that was better than Leclerc, yet there's a three point difference between them. Three points! Norris was arguably the best qualifier on Saturday and didn't put a wheel wrong on Sunday. Yet again gets the same as Lewis who was out-qualified and finished behind his team mate. And did Bottas really deserve a 9? For what, exactly?

Agree with you that a 7 would be a reasonable score for Lewis, with perhaps an 8 for Bottas for beating his team mate. Neither deserved a 9 and Sainz should not have scored less than either. The Ferrari pair were also scored quite harshly, I feel, unless something happened in the closing stages that I missed?

Felt like they only went backwards in the race...

[FTB]

The Ferrari is a very inconsistent car, especially with the tyres. Not many would have done better this weekend.

[TheAviator]

The Ferrari is a very inconsistent car, especially with the tyres. Not many would have done better this weekend.

Leclercs big issue was starting on mediums used in quali vs everyone around him on new hards. He had pace advantage for 5-6 laps after which it went down and all he could hope for is quick pit. You needed to have more then 0.5-0.8s advantage here to have any hope of overtaking, and when the guys in fromt are in DRS train that can easily be double.

Seb was 10s behind after pitstop and ended race 9s behind, so with 10 laps younger mediums he made no inroad to Kimi and Leclerc behind him.

[shure]

But is all or even any of the above a reflection of the drivers? Seems to me to be more the car so marking them so low is a little unfair I feel

[FTB]

But is all or even any of the above a reflection of the drivers? Seems to me to be more the car so marking them so low is a little unfair I feel

I agree with you. I rated Leclerc 8 and Vettel 7.

[ARTGP]

But is all or even any of the above a reflection of the drivers? Seems to me to be more the car so marking them so low is a little unfair I feel

 

It's been this way all season. Artificial inflation and deflation of the score based on the actual finishing position.

 

You are right to call it out.

 

But then again, on the balance, if you look at the season long rankings, you'd be hard pressed to complain that drivers were significantly out of position. The likes of Hamilton, Verstappen, Leclerc, Ricciardo, Perez towards the upper end. The likes of Bott, Ocon somewhat middling, and the likes of Albon/Vettel very much not having their best season at the bottom.

Edited by ARTGP, 16 December 2020 - 03:20.

[Marklar]

Here have Sport Bild's ratings of all drivers (and extras) for the whole year (1 = best rating, 6 = worst). Quality of ratings and way of illustration do give off a Gazzetta vibe, and that's always great for this thread

[timmy bolt]

Horner got a 5 🤣

[TheAviator]

Max scoring 2 while Norris, Sainz, Gasly, Ric, Perez and Russell all score 2 as well.

Leclerc scoring 3 with Vettel scoring 4, by having smallest % of team points over grid. Nice!

[as65p]

Max scoring 2 while Norris, Sainz, Gasly, Ric, Perez and Russell all score 2 as well.

Leclerc scoring 3 with Vettel scoring 4, by having smallest % of team points over grid. Nice!

That's the real outlier. Probably because.... german. Otherwise it's no better or worse than other rating lists.

[Ivanhoe]

Bild   That’s Hamilton a 10, Verstappen an 8.3 and Leclerc a 5 

Edited by Ivanhoe, 16 December 2020 - 20:21.

[Dicun]

Max scoring 2 while Norris, Sainz, Gasly, Ric, Perez and Russell all score 2 as well.

Leclerc scoring 3 with Vettel scoring 4, by having smallest % of team points over grid. Nice!

 

Leclerc is a curious one. When he is on it, he is formidable and amazing. Still, he is too erratic for my liking. He always has this quality around him that while he could do something silly out of the blue at any point. His first lap crashes this year, that madness about driving without the seat belts on etc really damaged his campaign for me so a 3 sounds about right.

 

I agree that Norris, Ricciardo and Gasly don't deserve a 2 either. For me: Verstappen 1, Hamilton 1, Pérez 2, Sainz 2, Russell 2.5 (as his mistake in the Emilia Romagna was a really silly and clumsy one). 

 

For me, the most impressive driver of the year was Checo, without a doubt. Here's hope he can secure that Red Bull seat.

[Ivanhoe]

Leclerc is a curious one. When he is on it, he is formidable and amazing. Still, he is too erratic for my liking. He always has this quality around him that while he could do something silly out of the blue at any point. His first lap crashes this year, that madness about driving without the seat belts on etc really damaged his campaign for me so a 3 sounds about right

Sounds like Verstappen 2-4 years ago and he was always highly rated over a season, right behind Lewis. Some ratings are a bit too harsh on Charles, mega talent. Strange thing, Max got a lot of flack for his antics and mistakes but good ratings overall, Leclerc is far less critisized, but gets poorer ratings. I think and hope those two are the next elite drivers, like their characters on and off track, more than Russell who I find a bit boring.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 16 December 2020 - 22:54.

[Marklar]

Bild That’s Hamilton a 10, Verstappen an 8.3 and Leclerc a 5

to be fair it's more like

1 -> 9.5-10
2 -> 8-9
3 -< 6.5-7.5
4 -> 5-6
5 -> 3-4.5
6 -> 1-2.5

(may vary slightly)

[Ivanhoe]

Yeah you’re right, especially on Leclerc’s rating. Still an odd rating, they used the wrong scale, too rough leaving not enough room for nuance that way. The 2-group is way too big, the 1-group too small. Still not too impressed by Bild so I’ll maintain my 

Edited by Ivanhoe, 16 December 2020 - 23:15.

[Dicun]

Sounds like Verstappen 2-4 years ago and he was always highly rated over a season, right behind Lewis. Some ratings are a bit too harsh on Charles, mega talent. Strange thing, Max got a lot of flack for his antics and mistakes but good ratings overall, Leclerc is far less critisized, but gets poorer ratings. I think and hope those two are the next elite drivers, like their characters on and off track, more than Russell who I find a bit boring.

 

I see where you are coming from, but I beg to differ. Back then, with Verstappen, one would always have this feeling of "oh man, this is going to end in tears, I'm telling you ...". His errors were always disasters in the making, and one always had this feeling of witnessing a build-up to the mistake - you could see it coming from miles away because he was pushing the envelope with every single apex he took. With Charles, it's different. He is killing it one weekend, does a fantastic thing in the race, absolutely flawless - only to unexpectedly and inexplicably bottle it out of the blue with a rookie mistake during the first lap the next weekend. 

 

And I think the Verstappen-kind of erratic driving can be ironed out with time as proven by Max himself, but this "highest highs then lowest lows" type of thing shown by Charles is inherent, and I suspect it's there to stay. Charles has blistering pace over one lap, but as a package, I don't think he is on Max's level. Max has been probably the best all-around driver for a while now, and I also feel that he will always be the bully in a wheel to wheel battle against Charles. 

 

That's just my take on it, of course. As far as personalities go, I like Charles better as he has a much more gentle vibe around him. Maybe that will be his downfall in the long run against the ruthlessness of Max, who knows. But I firmly believe that as far as drivers as complete packages are concerned, Max will always have the upper hand against Charles.

Edited by Dicun, 17 December 2020 - 01:31.

[ARTGP]

Horner got a 5 for following his marching orders....interesting...

[PlayboyRacer]

I see where you are coming from, but I beg to differ. Back then, with Verstappen, one would always have this feeling of "oh man, this is going to end in tears, I'm telling you ...". His errors were always disasters in the making, and one always had this feeling of witnessing a build-up to the mistake - you could see it coming from miles away because he was pushing the envelope with every single apex he took. With Charles, it's different. He is killing it one weekend, does a fantastic thing in the race, absolutely flawless - only to unexpectedly and inexplicably bottle it out of the blue with a rookie mistake during the first lap the next weekend.

And I think the Verstappen-kind of erratic driving can be ironed out with time as proven by Max himself, but this "highest highs then lowest lows" type of thing shown by Charles is inherent, and I suspect it's there to stay. Charles has blistering pace over one lap, but as a package, I don't think he is on Max's level. Max has been probably the best all-around driver for a while now, and I also feel that he will always be the bully in a wheel to wheel battle against Charles.

That's just my take on it, of course. As far as personalities go, I like Charles better as he has a much more gentle vibe around him. Maybe that will be his downfall in the long run against the ruthlessness of Max, who knows. But I firmly believe that as far as drivers as complete packages are concerned, Max will always have the upper hand against Charles.

I have to say this is all a rather odd take. But hey you're entitled to it.

[Kao18]

ESPN ranking for 2020: https://www.espn.com...g-f1-class-2020

 

Top of the Class

Hamilton A+

 

High Performers

Verstappen A

Perez A

Gasly A

Russell A-

Ricciardo B+

Leclerc B+

 

Average performers

Sainz B

Stroll B-

Norris B-

Raikkonen C-

Giovinazzi C-

 

Need serious improvement 

Ocon D+

Kvyat D

Vettel D

Grosjean D

Magnussen D

Bottas D-

 

Failures 

Albon F

Latifi F

 

Probably pretty close to my own ranking actually.

[GoldenColt]

ESPN ranking for 2020: https://www.espn.com...g-f1-class-2020

 

Top of the Class

Hamilton A+

 

High Performers

Verstappen A

Perez A

Gasly A

Russell A-

Ricciardo B+

Leclerc B+

 

Average performers

Sainz B

Stroll B-

Norris B-

Raikkonen C-

Giovinazzi C-

 

Need serious improvement 

Ocon D+

Kvyat D

Vettel D

Grosjean D

Magnussen D

Bottas D-

 

Failures 

Albon F

Latifi F

 

Probably pretty close to my own ranking actually.

Vettel belongs to the "Failures"-category. Him having a better grade than Bottas is astonishing.

[PlayboyRacer]

Vettel belongs to the "Failures"-category. Him having a better grade than Bottas is astonishing.

Indeed. And Perez, Gasly and Russell basically on par with Verstappen. LOL

What a diabolical list.

[Augurk]

So getting a freak circumstance victory, getting the best car for one race and doing well or driving a good second half of the year gets you on the same level as someone driving at an extraordinarily high level for the entire year and challenging faster cars in practically every race. 

 

There is so much wrong with that list you can't even begin to explain it.

[Kao18]

So getting a freak circumstance victory, getting the best car for one race and doing well or driving a good second half of the year gets you on the same level as someone driving at an extraordinarily high level for the entire year and challenging faster cars in practically every race. 

 

There is so much wrong with that list you can't even begin to explain it.

 

Verstappen deserves an A+ and should be in top of the class like Lewis. Grades aside there is not that much wrong with the categorization and order imo.

[ARTGP]

ESPN ranking for 2020: https://www.espn.com...g-f1-class-2020

 

Top of the Class

Hamilton A+

 

High Performers

Verstappen A

Perez A

Gasly A

Russell A-

Ricciardo B+

Leclerc B+

 

Average performers

Sainz B

Stroll B-

Norris B-

Raikkonen C-

Giovinazzi C-

 

Need serious improvement 

Ocon D+

Kvyat D

Vettel D

Grosjean D

Magnussen D

Bottas D-

 

Failures 

Albon F

Latifi F

 

Probably pretty close to my own ranking actually.

 

Ocon rating is a bit harsh lol. In the same class as Vettel? Really now? Easily belongs 1 class above.  I'd even say Bottas got a harsh rating too. D- is a bit silly. Should just go in the average performers. He had some good days, some bad ones, but on the balance, average.

Edited by ARTGP, 17 December 2020 - 14:34.

[Outsider]

ESPN ranking for 2020: https://www.espn.com...g-f1-class-2020

 

Top of the Class

Hamilton A+

 

High Performers

Verstappen A

Perez A

Gasly A

Russell A-

Ricciardo B+

Leclerc B+

 

Average performers

Sainz B

Stroll B-

Norris B-

Raikkonen C-

Giovinazzi C-

 

Need serious improvement 

Ocon D+

Kvyat D

Vettel D

Grosjean D

Magnussen D

Bottas D-

 

Failures 

Albon F

Latifi F

 

Probably pretty close to my own ranking actually.

Stroll and Norris having the same grade... 

[RPM40]

Verstappen should be in the same grade as Hamilton and Leclerc. Those three IMO were the standout. Ricciardo might sneak into that class too

[Bleu]

Finnish C More season ratings (these were shown before the Abu Dhabi race so that doesn't affect these)

 

Hamilton 10-

Bottas 7+

Verstappen 9-

Albon 5+

Sainz 8+

Norris 8-

Perez 9+

Stroll 7½

Ricciardo 8½

Ocon 7+

Leclerc 8-

Vettel 6-

Gasly 8½

Kvyat 7-

Räikkönen 7

Giovinazzi 7-

Grosjean 6-

Magnussen 6-

Russell 9-

Latifi 5+

Edited by Bleu, 20 December 2020 - 07:59.

[Ivanhoe]

Not bad, they just mixed up the ratings for Perez, Verstappen, Russell, Leclerc and Ricciardo somehow. That can’t be right and should read as Verstappen 9+, Ricciardo/Leclerc 9-, Perez 8.5 and Russell 8-. Those ratings were probably given right after Bahrein by the looks of it.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 20 December 2020 - 08:32.

[Speedometer]

GP247 awards

 

https://www.grandpri...er-of-the-year/

 

Looks like a clean sweep for Hamilton across all the major outlets. Am intrigued to see what F1 Metrics will come up with. I predict another 2017, with another outlier choice. 

[Marklar]

I dont expect Sky to get this together for Abu Dhabi and I'm on a business trip from monday on, so, eh, for the records sake the 2020 ratings of the 4 below mentioned outlets



Considering that Sky is always late and outright skipped twice in the last two years races I might drop them off next year, unless somebody minds.