135 replies to this topic

[keeppari]

And that's proof of what?

That either they are completely clueless about what they are supposed to do or the progress of previous years was suddenly wiped out because they can't cheat with the PU anymore. The latter should have a noticeable effect on their customer teams as well. Or you could believe the convoluted BS that Binotto is spewing around. Bring your own Occam's razor.

Why do you think Ferrari would have struck any kind of an agreement with FIA if their PU was in fact legal?

[Clatter]

I'm not saying anything. I can't turn into a fly and go inside the buildings where these teams hold their meetings and discuss. I'm just saying it's strange how all Ferrari powered teams suddenly appear weak, I'm just saying it's strange how Ferrari loses a lot of time on the straights when they basically had the best engine last season and I'm just saying that this AGREEMENT that FIA and Ferrrari reached is strange to say the least. That is all I am saying. Doesn't that seem a bit too much to you in the very least?!?

So that's last season taken care of, but you said they have cheated since the hybrid era began.

[Atreiu]

Jesus, imagine the outrage if other drivers had had a week like this: break covid bubble, be beat by teammate and stuck in Q2, grid penalty, 1st lap collision which takes himself and his teammate out.

[Ramon69]

So that's last season taken care of, but you said they have cheated since the hybrid era began.

You are right, I should have been more specific. Who knows since when though? Ever since 2015, they had quite a jump in performance. But I'm guessing something fishy went on ever since 2018, since they had that jump in engine power.

[William Hunt]

by colliding the Ferrari duo broke social distance rules

[keeppari]

So that's last season taken care of, but you said they have cheated since the hybrid era began.

Are you going to keep lying to yourself even if they're doing 2017 laps on other tracks as well?

[pRy]

Obviously Leclerc never learned anything from his teammate last weekend.  Not a place to make a lunge and expect a good outcome.  His move was never on.

 

I don't think it was that much of a lunge. I know the joke amongst the younger drivers is about "sending it" but to me Charles didn't seem locked up and was entering the corner at a fairly leisurely pace. It just became a bit of a racing incident with too many cars trying to get around the same corner. Contrast the approach to the corner Charles took with the guy behind him for example. They were pretty much identical. Does he wish he had slotted in behind Vettel? Sure. He's accepted blame for the incident so that's fair enough. But I don't see it as a hugely reckless move on the part of Charles. It was just an unfortunate lap 1 racing incident for me. We see them most races.

[THEWALL]

Charles, you mad lad, wtf are you doing

Time for a serious bollocking from the team, first the escapade to Monaco, then the grid penalty, now this needless lunge.

Give him some slack. After all he signed a long term contract with Ferrari. After the first two races, you wouldn’t blame him for becoming an alcoholic.

[Joefane]

Jesus, imagine the outrage if other drivers had had a week like this: break covid bubble, be beat by teammate and stuck in Q2, grid penalty, 1st lap collision which takes himself and his teammate out.

Yes, but you're forgetting that he has a nice smile and plays the Playstation.

[Ultraviolet]

I don't think it was that much of a lunge. I know the joke amongst the younger drivers is about "sending it" but to me Charles didn't seem locked up and was entering the corner at a fairly leisurely pace. It just became a bit of a racing incident with too many cars trying to get around the same corner. Contrast the approach to the corner Charles took with the guy behind him for example. They were pretty much identical. Does he wish he had slotted in behind Vettel? Sure. He's accepted blame for the incident so that's fair enough. But I don't see it as a hugely reckless move on the part of Charles. It was just an unfortunate lap 1 racing incident for me. We see them most races.

Agreed.

 

But there is one point I have not seen commented on in this thread, which is why Vettel was so close to Leclerc when he started several places in front of him. Vettel got a lousy start. That is part of the reason why there were so many cars in the same bit of track. It was still a boneheaded move by Leclerc, but let's not pretend Vettel was innocently minding his own business. He cocked up too.

[Roadhouse]

Agreed.

But there is one point I have not seen commented on in this thread, which is why Vettel was so close to Leclerc when he started several places in front of him. Vettel got a lousy start. That is part of the reason why there were so many cars in the same bit of track. It was still a boneheaded move by Leclerc, but let's not pretend Vettel was innocently minding his own business. He cocked up too.

I agree, Vettel should've known better than to come within striking distance of Leclerc.

[thefinalapex]

Agreed.

 

But there is one point I have not seen commented on in this thread, which is why Vettel was so close to Leclerc when he started several places in front of him. Vettel got a lousy start. That is part of the reason why there were so many cars in the same bit of track. It was still a boneheaded move by Leclerc, but let's not pretend Vettel was innocently minding his own business. He cocked up too.

 

Aha so Vettel gets a lousy start so he has to shoulder part of the blame that somebody rams his car into his side? got ya

[cpbell]

Clearly Leclerc's mistake, and he admitted it.

[Chillimeister]

Clearly Leclerc's mistake, and he admitted it.

 

Yes, but see posts above - he only admitted it to save Vettel's embarrassment after his lousy start 

[RekF1]

Both drivers lost it on the same corner under similar conditions the last two weekends. I actually feel a bit sorry for the drivers for their own different reasons, but I think they might be driving the worst Ferrari I've ever seen all things considered.

[Ultraviolet]

Aha so Vettel gets a lousy start so he has to shoulder part of the blame that somebody rams his car into his side? got ya

Nope.

 

Vettel gets a lousy start, so he has to shoulder the blame for having got a lousy start. As I actually said in my comment, it was still a boneheaded move from Charles. I am not saying that Vettel was at fault for the accident, I am saying that he had a bad start to the race, and is solely responsible for the fact that he had a bad start and was, at the time of the accident, several places lower down the grid than he should have been.

[thefinalapex]

Nope.

Vettel gets a lousy start, so he has to shoulder the blame for having got a lousy start. As I actually said in my comment, it was still a boneheaded move from Charles. I am not saying that Vettel was at fault for the accident, I am saying that he had a bad start to the race, and is solely responsible for the fact that he had a bad start and was, at the time of the accident, several places lower down the grid than he should have been.

Understood.

[Afterburner]

Agreed.
 
But there is one point I have not seen commented on in this thread, which is why Vettel was so close to Leclerc when he started several places in front of him. Vettel got a lousy start. That is part of the reason why there were so many cars in the same bit of track. It was still a boneheaded move by Leclerc, but let's not pretend Vettel was innocently minding his own business. He cocked up too.

Perhaps the reason you haven't seen it mentioned in the thread yet is because the person who was by all accounts entirely responsible for the collision was Charles Leclerc and not Sebastian Vettel.

[Atreiu]

7 days ago he dragged a total shitheap to 2nd in the race, outperforming guys with better cars. A proper champions drive.

Yes he messed up massively today. A lynching is perhaps a touch over the top though...

 

His weekend would only have been worse if he had been stuck in Q3. None of this is a lynching. It was a terrible week from a guy who was just handed the keys to the Ferrari kingdom.

[SonGoku]

Maybe Charles needs to think a little bit more and stay in that bubble, party animal.

Edited by SonGoku, 12 July 2020 - 22:17.

[ATM]

Well, Vettel did get indeed a lousy start and lost one pr two positions.
Is that a mistake against the rule book? No.
Is there a Ferrari quota for minimal gained/lost positions at start which Vettel failed to reach? No.
Is that an excuse to be slapped sideways by a car bouncing off the kerb? No.
So why has it been brought up?

[baddog]

Oops.

[beachdrifter]

The most interesting thing is how Ferrari will spin it. I can’t see them blaming Leclerc

 

Even Leclerc blamed Leclerc, no ifs or buts, 100%.

[Ragingjamaican]

Nope.

 

Vettel gets a lousy start, so he has to shoulder the blame for having got a lousy start. As I actually said in my comment, it was still a boneheaded move from Charles. I am not saying that Vettel was at fault for the accident, I am saying that he had a bad start to the race, and is solely responsible for the fact that he had a bad start and was, at the time of the accident, several places lower down the grid than he should have been.

 

 

Agreed.

 

But there is one point I have not seen commented on in this thread, which is why Vettel was so close to Leclerc when he started several places in front of him. Vettel got a lousy start. That is part of the reason why there were so many cars in the same bit of track. It was still a boneheaded move by Leclerc, but let's not pretend Vettel was innocently minding his own business. He cocked up too.

 

 

Point 1 - Might be because he was on the Medium tyre compound compared to the majority around him on who were on the softs, on top of that was also starting on the dirty side of the track. Leclerc on the other hand started on the softs and also came from quite far back in that incident which also brought them as you say "so close" together.

 

Point 2 - Not sure I understand this, what else was he doing? Must have missed him inviting Leclerc to play demolition derby with him.

[Clatter]

Agreed.

But there is one point I have not seen commented on in this thread, which is why Vettel was so close to Leclerc when he started several places in front of him. Vettel got a lousy start. That is part of the reason why there were so many cars in the same bit of track. It was still a boneheaded move by Leclerc, but let's not pretend Vettel was innocently minding his own business. He cocked up too.

It's hasn't been brought up because it's irrelevant.

[Pete_f1]

It's just a symptom of being back in the pack.

[shure]

It's hasn't been brought up because it's irrelevant.

this.  the discussion is about the collision, not how great Seb was

[CSF]

Max Verstappen was at fault for the 2017 Austrian Grand Prix crash too. 

[SenorSjon]

Jesus, imagine the outrage if other drivers had had a week like this: break covid bubble, be beat by teammate and stuck in Q2, grid penalty, 1st lap collision which takes himself and his teammate out.

 

It could be a genuine topic, Verstappen style. 

 

Both drivers lost it on the same corner under similar conditions the last two weekends. I actually feel a bit sorry for the drivers for their own different reasons, but I think they might be driving the worst Ferrari I've ever seen all things considered.

 

Vettel only helped himself, not splatter his car on his teammate.

 

Max Verstappen was at fault for the 2017 Austrian Grand Prix crash too. 

 

Wasn't that the Kvyat torpedo-crash?

 

---

 

I find it very odd Leclerc didn't get any penalty points for this. If he hits any other car this way, it was a slam dunk penalty. It is like the FIA is saying: "fine, batter your teammate"

[PlayboyRacer]

None of this is a lynching.

It kinda is when he apologised publicly immediately and took full responsibility, yet people question his "leadership" capabilities overnight and say he'd better get his act together or Sainz might "assert himself as number 1" next year...

LOL yeah not dramatic at all.

[garoidb]

It kinda is when he apologised publicly immediately and took full responsibility, yet people question his "leadership" capabilities overnight and say he'd better get his act together or Sainz might "assert himself as number 1" next year...

LOL yeah not dramatic at all.

 

I would say he is under a lot of pressure to beat Vettel comfortably this year. I take it that he is de facto team leader at Ferrari now, and he is the only continuing driver. He has to play that senior role. However, they are not competitive and it will be a difficult job, perhaps even for the foreseeable future. At Ferrari, the clock is always ticking.

[CSF]

Wasn't that the Kvyat torpedo-crash?

 

Yes, Max got a bad start, so going by the logic above he wasn't "blameless". (lollll)

[MikeTekRacing]

Leclerc did a really stupid thing, it doesn't even matter it was his team mate. I can't understand how he actually thought putting his car there will end up. And FFS, why? it was turn 3 of the race, why so impatient? It's not like his car was awesome and he wanted to clear people to fight MGP.

 

he did say it was stupid apologized to the team, the rest of the discussion should be between himself, Seb and Binnoto.

 

He should have some sort of penalty points/grid penalty though.

[smr]

https://www.facebook...98907428218420/

[Dutchrudder]

So that's last season taken care of, but you said they have cheated since the hybrid era began.

It’s 3 years that the trick has been noticeable for isn’t it? And it’s been pegged back at times and then seemed to offer a greater effect at others, but it has been there.

I feel the situation Ferrari is in now, is that they have been down this development path for the last 3 years and have had to reboot to that stage of their development cycle, at a time when Honda and Renault have actually got themselves together and are in touching distance of Merc, Ferrari is now 3 years behind.

[w1Y]

Le Clerc was too eager at monaco that time where he ended up ripping his floor all over the track, he was too eager last week and that was after him deciding to travel back to monaco to party.

But he is still young and is extremely talented and he put his hands up and admitted his error. It must be frustrating for the ferrari drivers.