309 replies to this topic

[alframsey]

The only opposition in '14 was Rosberg, who is a great driver, but it's a step below Hamilton. It would be the same if MV would win a championship vs DR.

'17 Vettel completely threw it away with stuff like Baku and Singapore. The Ferrari may have been the faster car at quite a few points, but the whole operation (team + driver) just self imploded. In 18 Vettel continued with making mistakes (Azerbaijan, France, Monza, Hockenheim...).

So Lewis was facing a tough and fast car, but he wasn't really challenged consistently because the other guys dropped the ball massively. Not Lewis' mistake, but let him please finally have a fight until the last few races against a driver who can match him in speed and racecraft.

Rosberg was more than capable of mounting a title challenge where the only other competitor was his teammate, the worst result he was going to get was 2nd. Hamilton was in a two person fight where he had to finish first or lose the title. Pressure, add to that Rosberg was more than handy.

As for the fact Vettel blew it, it proves my point. A more than capable (in fact at the time considered one of the best in the business) blew it when he had two shots at the title against Lewis while Lewis was near perfect. That shows his talent for me, not the opposite.

[Requiem84]

It also severely dragged down Vettel’s reputation, which was further confirmed in 2019, but which was already suspected by many fans and rivals in 10-13.

I dont say it undermines Lewis talent, which is obvious to anyone, but it does show that in his Mercedes years he rarely faced competition of the elite level.

[Marklar]

I mean if we discount every title where the competition "blew it" or where the competition was not highly rated I'm not sure if we'll get many together if looking at the past 70 years. This seems to be a bit silly as an argument.

 

I remember attempts to discredit Hamilton's success back in 2015 that he only ever won titles against drivers like Massa and Rosberg, not against people like Alonso or Vettel. Now he won it against Vettel in comparable machinery, and now the goalpost has moved (further up?) to Verstappen.  (assuming they ever face each other under such circumstances)

Edited by Marklar, 15 July 2020 - 20:01.

[ExEd]

So in other words , if they manage to win over, they are elite. 

If not ,ether by failing to compete against him or by their own mistakes, they are non-elite.

 

Vettel ,Rosberg both champions but non elite, Max non elite as well...

Or all 3 of them elite but not in the right machinery. Depending the argument 

 

 

So to count ones achievements:

One has to have word champions as adversaries, but if they fail and blew in title campaign pressure  then it doesn't count. 

He has to win over flawless seasons. 

Also in the perfectly matched cars.If the runner up car has wins and poles but no more than the Merc, then its inferior. it has to be split. 

Edited by ExEd, 15 July 2020 - 20:13.

[ExEd]

I mean if we discount every title where the competition "blew it" or where the competition was not highly rated I'm not sure if we'll get many together if looking at the past 70 years. This seems to be a bit silly as an argument.

 

I remember attempts to discredit Hamilton's success back in 2015 that he only ever won titles against drivers like Massa and Rosberg, not against people like Alonso or Vettel. Now he won it against Vettel in comparable machinery, and now the goalpost has moved (further up?) to Verstappen.  (assuming they ever face each other under such circumstances)

 

The goalpost moving is funny actually, trail it  since 2007 and you will have a laugh.

But what i find hilarious really is the   "i dont want to discard Hamilton BUT ( nonsense following attempting to discard  )"     

 

Must be have been a nightmare for some to watch F1 the last few years. 

[Requiem84]

I have a word for this Hamilton-sensitivsim.

Where is the bloody discounting?

I just want to see him challenged until the ragged edge, preferably up to the last race as in 07 and 08.

[ExEd]

I have a word for this Hamilton-sensitivsim.

Where is the bloody discounting?

I just want to see him challenged until the ragged edge, preferably up to the last race as in 07 and 08.

 

He got challenged by Vettel in 17 and 18, but apparently Vettel is not good enough ,nor was Alonso and Kimi or Massa or Rosberg.

We kinda need to bring but MS,Mika,Prost and Senna lined up. 

Oh and all to be in exactly the same pace cars ,because its very common in F1...

Edited by ExEd, 15 July 2020 - 20:39.

[Requiem84]

I dont think anyone needs explanation that Vettel isn’t really close to Lewis level.

[ExEd]

I dont think anyone needs explanation that Vettel isn’t really close to Lewis level.

 

Thats because Lewis is really good ,same way none was close to MS in his prime, or many many champions in their prime. 

Marklar had a point above about clearly moving goalposts

Following that logic we need to discredit the vast majority of F1 champions. 

[PayasYouRace]

Well the OP has had his rant, we discussed it, and now this has become 101 reasons why Lewis Hamilton is the best ever/not as good as all that.

 

 

 

Other comparison threads which pit driver against driver for no apparent reason are unwelcome.

 

Time to close.