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Should they go back on postponing rule changes?


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Poll: Should they go back in postponing rule changes? (107 member(s) have cast votes)

Should they go back in postponing the rule change?

  1. yes (48 votes [44.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.86%

  2. no (59 votes [55.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.14%

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#1 THEWALL

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:20

With development basically frozen for 2021 and Mercedes all but guaranteed both WDC and WCC this and next season, should F1 backpedal on the postponement of the rule change? F1 was already damaged by a team dominating for the longest period of time in the history of the sport. Fans are alienated, top drivers desperate, the dominators not taking any risks...

 

What possible solutions do you see to managing this and next year's seasons to potentially accommodate this change? 

 

 

 



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#2 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:21

None. The corona virus doesn’t allow for heavy investments into new cars at the moment. The back half of the grid would all go bankrupt.

#3 masa90

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:23

Yes. Otherwise there might not be anyone who cares about it.

#4 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:24

The postponement is all about the financial state of F1. So, no, if they went back, then teams would go bust and, perhaps, the whole of F1 would collapse into something unrecognisable.



#5 Topsu

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:25

Just accept that Lewis will be 8-time WDC and then decide if you'll be watching or not. Next season will happen with current rules, there's no way around it.



#6 Pingguest

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:28

As Formula One will introduce a budget cap, I fail to see why we should not free-up the regulations in other areas.

 

With the current regulations and development effectively banned, one could expect Mercedes-Benze to be (unofficially) first, second, third and fourth in 2020 and 2021. How about that for other teams attracting enough financial resources to survive?



#7 Atreiu

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:28

Corona sucks. The world has barely began recovery and even that will be rocky and inconsistent. Take it on the chin.

I suggest unhappy fans just don’t watch F1.

I love Hamilton’s success but I’m not a fan of where F1 is now, for years youtube highlights have helped me keep up without the full commitment of waking up early and losing sleep or other things to watch races.

#8 beachdrifter

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:29

With development basically frozen for 2021 and Mercedes all but guaranteed both WDC and WCC this and next season, should F1 backpedal on the postponement of the rule change? 

 

Err, no. They did that for a million reasons. None of them have changed. It's about the survival of the series.



#9 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:31

As Formula One will introduce a budget cap, I fail to see why we should not free-up the regulations in other areas.

 

With the current regulations and development effectively banned, one could expect Mercedes-Benze to be (unofficially) first, second, third and fourth in 2020 and 2021. How about that for other teams attracting enough financial resources to survive?

 

Do you really think that opening up development again would make any positive difference to the teams that are really in danger?? They are not the ones that would be challenging Mercedes. I would suggest that you know that very well.


Edited by pdac, 18 July 2020 - 14:31.


#10 KavB

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:31

I think it is too late for that now. It will suck knowing who is going to win the championship next year but I think the sport would be in a tricky situation if they do not freeze the cars so it was the right decision, even if it comes at the expense of the fans excitement.

 

I've accepted that Hamilton will be 8 x WDC by the end of next year. Its up to the individual if they want to take a break from the sport for a year if they find it unexciting I suppose.



#11 THEWALL

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:31

Err, no. They did that for a million reasons. None of them have changed. It's about the survival of the series.


So would the change...

#12 Pingguest

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:31

Err, no. They did that for a million reasons. None of them have changed. It's about the survival of the series.

 

Currently, all teams but Mercedes-Benz and Mercedes-Benz, oh sorry, Racing Point are locked into a desperate situation.



#13 Marklar

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:31

Probably only 2-3 teams could field cars for next year if the rule changes were to happen at its original date, I can understand the frustration, but it's a ridiculous proposal if you consider the current situation in the world.



#14 Pingguest

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:32

Do you really think that opening up development again would make any positive difference to the teams that are really in danger?? They are not the ones that would be challenging Mercedes. I would suggest that you know that very well.

 

Wait, the budget cap won't work? Is that what you are saying?



#15 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:34

The financial impact of what covid-19 will do has not even started yet. I predict that some of you people right here, right now, will find that you are going to be much poorer than you think in not too long a time.



#16 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:35

Wait, the budget cap won't work? Is that what you are saying?

 

Yes.



#17 Brawn BGP 001

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:36

It could worse RB wanted them delayed another year. :rotfl: Bet they're glad that did not happen.


Edited by Brawn BGP 001, 18 July 2020 - 14:37.


#18 Pingguest

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:37

Yes.

 

Well, Formula One is done then. 



#19 Kleli

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:37

F1 is in a tricky spot at the moment. Mercedes will kill the sport if nothing changes and the pandemic's effect on economy will kill F1 if they do change it.



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#20 SonGoku

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:38

Lol the COVID financial disaster has yet to register in F1, I don't see how any team outside Ferrari or RBR are going to support this.

#21 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:38

Well, Formula One is done then. 

 

No, because they are also freezing the regulations so that there is the possibility that it will survive into a time when it can make a difference.



#22 Astandahl

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:39

I doubt the new rules will change anything condering they will keep the same PUs. Maybe if really Mercedes was spending more than everyone else.



#23 Pingguest

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:43

No, because they are also freezing the regulations so that there is the possibility that it will survive into a time when it can make a difference.

 

Teams being locked into a desperate situation and a very predictable series - how will teams continue to attract sponsors? 



#24 beachdrifter

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:45

Lol the COVID financial disaster has yet to register in F1, I don't see how any team outside Ferrari or RBR are going to support this.

 

It's a nonsensical idea to begin with, so no one will support it.



#25 GoldenColt

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:48

Pointless thread because there's no way it will happen.

 

However, I would be in favour of it if there was a way. I've seen Lewis in dominant cars between 2014 and 2016, it gives me nothing anymore.


Edited by GoldenColt, 18 July 2020 - 14:54.


#26 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:56

Teams being locked into a desperate situation and a very predictable series - how will teams continue to attract sponsors? 

 

Nothing will change that in the immediate future.



#27 THEWALL

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:57

Probably only 2-3 teams could field cars for next year if the rule changes were to happen at its original date, I can understand the frustration, but it's a ridiculous proposal if you consider the current situation in the world.


Ridiculous would be to not find even a patch solution to improve the terrible product we have now. Surely there can be creative solutions? Make a 20-21 season and start late in 2021? Make 2021 a transition year allowing for some sort of new car development? Anything is potentially better than this?

#28 THEWALL

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:58

Pointless thread because there's no way it will happen.

However, I would be in favour of it if there was a way. I've seen Lewis in dominant cars between 2014 and 2016, it gives me nothing anymore.


Yet it’s not asking if it will happen...

#29 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 14:59

Ridiculous would be to not find even a patch solution to improve the terrible product we have now. Surely there can be creative solutions? Make a 20-21 season and start late in 2021? Make 2021 a transition year allowing for some sort of new car development? Anything is potentially better than this?

 

I would not be at all surprised if, at the end of this year, they have an emergency meeting and all agree to postpone the rule changes for a further year. The proper solution is to reduce the budget to well below $100m and include everything (including all staff and drivers salaries).



#30 Goron3

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:02

Pointless thread because there's no way it will happen.

 

However, I would be in favour of it if there was a way. I've seen Lewis in dominant cars between 2014 and 2016, it gives me nothing anymore.

My girlfriend is a die hard Lewis fan and she said the exact same thing during qualifying. In fact she's lost interest in F1 compared to previous years, which is ironic because she loved it the most in 2012 when Lewis wasn't winning.

 

I know a lot of Hamilton fans won't want to hear this, but I can't help but think that something has to be done to clip Mercedes, just like it was in 2003 and 2005, or even for 2012 to slow down Red Bull.

 

What's really amazing is that the teams agreed to freeze certain PU parts for the sake of development, but the amount of development needed to catch Mercedes now is absolutely huge. In hindsight, they should have neutralised the engines to within 1% in terms of peak power instead of freezing them after a winter of unlimited development. 

 

The fact that the chassis is frozen next year as well...bloody hell.



#31 HP

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:21

Changing rules that are not directly related to development might be changed though.

 

 Will it happen under Jean Todt? Doubt it.

 

I never thought I am going to say that, but right now F1 would need folks like Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone to rock the boat and bring about changes, Entrepreneurship is needed, instead of the current managing of a product with diminishing value. Jean Todt's democratic ways are too slow to bring real change and decisions are spiked with teams self interest. I haven't seen Jean Todt stand up against that.

 

What is done right now about development is understandable in some ways, but it's more about maintaining the status quo, rather than using this opportunity to bring much needed change. It's true COVID destroyed a lot of value worldwide, yet F1 tries a soft landing by managing managing careful and making things cheaper. However F1 is being held back by the manufacturer teams and by engines that need manufacturer support. All what seems to happening is that F1 will lose it's perceived technological cutting edge. What will be the leftovers of that approach? I have a clear picture in my mind, and it seems not very pretty.   


Edited by HP, 18 July 2020 - 15:23.


#32 pdac

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:22

My girlfriend is a die hard Lewis fan and she said the exact same thing during qualifying. In fact she's lost interest in F1 compared to previous years, which is ironic because she loved it the most in 2012 when Lewis wasn't winning.

 

I know a lot of Hamilton fans won't want to hear this, but I can't help but think that something has to be done to clip Mercedes, just like it was in 2003 and 2005, or even for 2012 to slow down Red Bull.

 

What's really amazing is that the teams agreed to freeze certain PU parts for the sake of development, but the amount of development needed to catch Mercedes now is absolutely huge. In hindsight, they should have neutralised the engines to within 1% in terms of peak power instead of freezing them after a winter of unlimited development. 

 

The fact that the chassis is frozen next year as well...bloody hell.

 

But they are unrelated. The freeze is not about locking in Mercedes or Lewis's dominance and I'm sure if there were alternatives then the teams would not have agreed this. Yes, it's frustrating, but what else could they do? If people are really irritated, why not just go away for a year or two and come back when things have changed. Alternatively (better) just ignore the top 6 cars and watch what is happening in the midfield - there's some good action there. It does not have to be all about the winner, you know.



#33 Risil

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:26

Corona sucks. The world has barely began recovery and even that will be rocky and inconsistent. Take it on the chin.

I suggest unhappy fans just don’t watch F1.

I love Hamilton’s success but I’m not a fan of where F1 is now, for years youtube highlights have helped me keep up without the full commitment of waking up early and losing sleep or other things to watch races.

 

I think this is a sane approach. There's other stuff that's worth our attention and enjoyment until F1 sorts itself out.

 

I'm sort of interested in the midfield battle this year but Mercedes look checked out.



#34 P123

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:42

My girlfriend is a die hard Lewis fan and she said the exact same thing during qualifying. In fact she's lost interest in F1 compared to previous years, which is ironic because she loved it the most in 2012 when Lewis wasn't winning.

 

I know a lot of Hamilton fans won't want to hear this, but I can't help but think that something has to be done to clip Mercedes, just like it was in 2003 and 2005, or even for 2012 to slow down Red Bull.

 

What's really amazing is that the teams agreed to freeze certain PU parts for the sake of development, but the amount of development needed to catch Mercedes now is absolutely huge. In hindsight, they should have neutralised the engines to within 1% in terms of peak power instead of freezing them after a winter of unlimited development. 

 

The fact that the chassis is frozen next year as well...bloody hell.

 

Then you might not like me highlighting this but by clipping Mercs wings do you mean something like making the engine less of a defining factor, like happened in that alternate universe for 2016... or the banning of FRIC.... or oil burning clampdowns.... or easing up the token system.... or having a complete overhaul of the car technical regs along with restricting development based on performance...?  Remind us what was done in 2012?

 

I'm not sure why Hamilton fans would have a problem... beating Bottas isn't really thrilling, nor is him being able to drive within himself. But I'd have thought the others doing a better, legal job would be more welcome than fakery to make somebody slower.

 

Unfortunately economic reality has delayed the new regs, but also unfortunately there is no guarantee that these will clip Mercs wings, like folks hoped for with the FRIC ban, or various oil burning clampdowns, or the new chassis focused 2016 regulations.



#35 Nathan

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 15:47

With development basically frozen for 2021 and Mercedes all but guaranteed both WDC and WCC this and next season, should F1 backpedal on the postponement of the rule change? F1 was already damaged by a team dominating for the longest period of time in the history of the sport. Fans are alienated, top drivers desperate, the dominators not taking any risks...

 

What possible solutions do you see to managing this and next year's seasons to potentially accommodate this change? 

 

I'd put a bet if they did go forward with 2021 that the likelihood Mercedes was already near top drawer on that front, combined with the fact they probably have the most resources to now rush the 2021 car through would leave us with an even greater gap going into the next regs.



#36 M66R

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:10

Success ballast for 2021.

#37 THEWALL

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:17

I'd put a bet if they did go forward with 2021 that the likelihood Mercedes was already near top drawer on that front, combined with the fact they probably have the most resources to now rush the 2021 car through would leave us with an even greater gap going into the next regs.


And as many people have said, there’s no change in engines, so the likelihood of things remaining the same is greater than with other rule shake ups. I’m not sure F1 would survive Mercedes still winning after a rule change.

#38 THEWALL

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:24

Success ballast for 2021.


Desperate times call for desperate measures.

#39 M66R

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:26

Desperate times call for desperate measures.


For sure.

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#40 shure

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:27

They put the restrictions in for a reason.  And they need to ensure that they don't put any extra financial burden onto the teams.  But if Mercedes are as dominant as they look so far then it will mean two years of a bit of a charade.  I don't have the immediate answer but these guys are supposed to be all geniuses so they should put some thought into allowing some kind or equalisation



#41 OO7

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:28

The postponement is all about the financial state of F1. So, no, if they went back, then teams would go bust and, perhaps, the whole of F1 would collapse into something unrecognisable.

But pdac, surely that's not as bad as Mercedes winning another couple of championships!



#42 MastaKink

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:32

Nah.



#43 Garndell

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:33

Simple answer, no.  The teams have lost too much time & spent too much money to just switch to the new rules now.



#44 OO7

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:33

My girlfriend is a die hard Lewis fan and she said the exact same thing during qualifying. In fact she's lost interest in F1 compared to previous years, which is ironic because she loved it the most in 2012 when Lewis wasn't winning.

 

I know a lot of Hamilton fans won't want to hear this, but I can't help but think that something has to be done to clip Mercedes, just like it was in 2003 and 2005, or even for 2012 to slow down Red Bull.

 

What's really amazing is that the teams agreed to freeze certain PU parts for the sake of development, but the amount of development needed to catch Mercedes now is absolutely huge. In hindsight, they should have neutralised the engines to within 1% in terms of peak power instead of freezing them after a winter of unlimited development. 

 

The fact that the chassis is frozen next year as well...bloody hell.

The 2022 rules and beyond are supposed help with this.



#45 Requiem84

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:35

But pdac, surely that's not as bad as Mercedes winning another couple of championships!


It depends, first of all:

- Would things ‘collapse’ if they open up 2021 development?
- If so, what would come out of that collapse as a revised series?
- thirdly, what will happen with F1 if Merc wins 2 totally dominant championships? Will Honda stay? Will Renault stay? Will RB stay? What will happen with viewer figures, sponsorship value? Can smaller teams survive if sponsors leave?

You can use sarcasm to ridicule, but it’s a complex situation where Merc dominating for 2 mire seasons could have adverse consequences for the long term sustainability of the sport.

#46 OO7

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:41

It depends, first of all:

- Would things ‘collapse’ if they open up 2021 development?
- If so, what would come out of that collapse as a revised series?
- thirdly, what will happen with F1 if Merc wins 2 totally dominant championships? Will Honda stay? Will Renault stay? Will RB stay? What will happen with viewer figures, sponsorship value? Can smaller teams survive if sponsors leave?

You can use sarcasm to ridicule, but it’s a complex situation where Merc dominating for 2 mire seasons could have adverse consequences for the long term sustainability of the sport.

In another thread, there was a little bit of fuss stirred up by a comment Newey had made about Mercedes having the biggest budget and largest aero department.  What if the F.I.A made a decision reversal on the dev freeze and Mercedes maintains there gap or pulls further ahead?

 

It was considered the lesser of two evils and it's not as if Mercedes dominating is new.  At the end of 2019, there were posts on the forum with comments such as (to paraphrase) '2021 can't come soon enough'.  So let's not pretend that many actually gave other teams a realistic chance under the current regs.


Edited by OO7, 18 July 2020 - 16:59.


#47 Fastcake

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:42

Success ballast for 2021.

 

That's at least a realistic idea. We can't embark on a large and expensive regulation change when half the world is teetering on bankruptcy, and as with the last rule changes, probably won't make much difference to Mercedes anyway. Sticking 60kg on to the winning car won't cost anything and should peg the frontrunners back a bit.

 

But that is a big line to cross. Formula One has stopped short from the more gamey aspects present elsewhere in motorsport, and it's not hard to imagine temporary success ballast opening the door to more permanent ideas.



#48 FNG

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 16:46

What a bloody disaster. Another cake walk by Mercedes and it will be the same next year. Pole by over a second and the next fastest team is your last years car. LOL yah I will be tuning in for the races. Can't wait to watch those predetermined results.

 

F1 is finished

 

well at least i won't be squandering summer weather on watching F1

 

And it's so bloody bad that I can almost guarantee we will hear some fabricated "drama" over the radio by Toto about how their cars are about to fail. Wow


Edited by FNG, 18 July 2020 - 16:51.


#49 Requiem84

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 17:18

In another thread, there was a little bit of fuss stirred up by a comment Newey had made about Mercedes having the biggest budget and largest aero department. What if the F.I.A made a decision reversal on the dev freeze and Mercedes maintains there gap or pulls further ahead?

It was considered the lesser of two evils and it's not as if Mercedes dominating is new. At the end of 2019, there were posts on the forum with comments such as (to paraphrase) '2021 can't come soon enough'. So let's not pretend that many actually gave other teams a realistic chance under the current regs.


The standard pattern was for RB (and Honda) to claw back during the season.

That likelihood is now much more limited obviously.

Not opening up the rules for ‘21 ensures one very likely outcome: Mercedes to keep a sizeable advantage.

Opening up the rules gives at least the possibility of catching up. So there is at least an alternative outcome compared to the de facto status quo of not opening up the rules.

I dont see how you can argue against the above tbh.

#50 milestone 11

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 17:36

Probably only 2-3 teams could field cars for next year if the rule changes were to happen at its original date, I can understand the frustration, but it's a ridiculous proposal if you consider the current situation in the world.

I don't believe that 2022 is going to be realistic either.So many have so little understanding of the dire straights that the planet is facing. A major regulation change for 2022 will, I believe, kill F1 stone dead.