293 replies to this topic

[Tombstone]

The commentators were saying 40 laps. Well, in between the bits where Croft was being a complete prat.

[Atreiu]

Just for context, what explanations were given after Lewis’s tyre problems and Istanbul 07 and Hungaroring 08?

Every company who sticks around long enough will have bad days here and there.

[MikeTekRacing]

Kvyat's falilure is pretty strange, sudden and dangerous.

I am amazed hhe thought it was his error. The car snapped so suddenly at a point where I am not sure what he could have done to make it so snappy.

 

Maybe this shows how close to the limit they are that he thought he was a bit over limit. Still strange...

[Tombstone]

Just for context, what explanations were given after Lewis’s tyre problems and Istanbul 07 and Hungaroring 08?

 

 

I seem to recall at the time many folk just said Hamilton had poor tyre management.

[milestone 11]

Doesn't matter if it's 40, 50, or 1000 laps, they should fade dramatically in performance, not disintegrate.

[HP]

Yes, and in any case high wear is no excuse. This should manifest itself in a lack of grip. Instead there seemed to be no warning for these failures.

Maybe we need a tyre war. Pirelli would be unlikely to win it with this kind of performance.

Vibrations are not warnings? Verstappen had them too. RBR changed his tyres. Granted he had a large gap behind him, but his pursuit of the Mercedes didn't allow them to have Bottas coming in. So Mercedes tried to protect their 1-2 by going marginal on the tyres. With the Pirelli that has never worked, so why should it have last Sunday? And well, vibrations also means less grip is available. 

[CSF]

Pirelli said that this tyre should last up to 50 laps, yet they failed in less than 40, so something is wrong. Devris was not a cause. Don't they have enough testing to evaluate the tyres properly? Do the FIA have the expertise to ratify these tyres properly? Maybe an independant consultant should examine the design, construction and production systems.

 

 

You have to remember that doesn't account for the way each car uses the tyres, which Pirelli can't test for, each team is responsible for its own limits, based on how their car uses the tyres. As it always has been. 

[ANF]

Mmhh, Valtteri sounded a little pissed off. Wonder what was bleeped, fu** him?

Not as pissed off as Kimi!

[Kalmake]

Weren't there some Pirellis last year that cracked in free practice because they were too cold? Maybe temp cycles with "too slow" SC took their toll too.

[PayasYouRace]

If they can't do their job properly they should walk away from it.

Define “properly”. It sounds like you want them to do their job perfectly, which is a different thing.

[Clatter]

If they can't do their job properly they should walk away from it.

 

Maybe the teams shouldn't have rejected the 2020 tyres in preference to the 2019 ones.

[P123]

Just for context, what explanations were given after Lewis’s tyre problems and Istanbul 07 and Hungaroring 08?

Every company who sticks around long enough will have bad days here and there.

 

Istanbul was trye load; Hungary I think was debris/ kerb.

[milestone 11]

Not as pissed off as Kimi!

Nor Stroll's race engineer.

[milestone 11]

Not as pissed off as Kimi!

 

 

Nor Stroll's race engineer.

Thinking about that, the engineer must be in a difficult position. Not easy for him.

[Chillimeister]

If they can't do their job properly they should walk away from it.

 

As I have posted before, you need to understand that Pirelli are simply doing what the FIA has asked them to do, which is to provide tyres that degrade so that tyre stops are necessary and incidentally which also have a definite lap time delta between the various compounds. Any tyre manufacturer would experience the same issues given that particular design brief. And then the teams tend to run the tyres at cambers which are right at the limits of what Pirelli will agree to, so its actually surprising that there aren't more tyre issues.

 

Edit: And then as Clatter post above, Pirelli wanted a stronger construction for 2020 to cope with the increased speed and downforce the 2020 cars produce, but the teams decided to vote to keep the 2019 tyres. They got what they wished for.

Edited by Chillimeister, 04 August 2020 - 18:10.

[Clrnc]

Doesn't matter if it's 40, 50, or 1000 laps, they should fade dramatically in performance, not disintegrate.

It didn't really disintegrate, as it blow up in a corner to cause the car to spin or something like Kyvat. 

 

It just deflated and then as they continue to run at speed it slowly disintegrated. 

[Timstr11]

Don't forget that the teams rejected the tyres meant for this year, hence still using the tyres from last year.

 

Was it a construction change or just new compounds?

Found a related article:

https://www.bbc.com/...rmula1/50726067

No idea if it would help. In any case, no one liked the tyres.

[keeppari]

If they can't do their job properly they should walk away from it.

Does this apply to tyre manufacturers only? We have engine manufacturers and teams that have been dog**** compared to Merc for half a decade and counting.

[MasterOfCoin]

Pirelli Press Release regarding the tyre failures.

I mean what else are they going to say......They're not gonna say we made rubbish tires......

Edited by MasterOfCoin, 05 August 2020 - 11:59.

[Ben1980]

3 tryes went, out of something like 70? So, 4%. 2 of those on the same team, the team who have seen a greater performance increase compared to the others, who are obviously putting more strain on the tyres which were not necessarily designed for them. Both Bottas and Sainz said they had vibrations yet, the teams took the risk, and it failed. Push the limits you sometimes reach the end of those limits.

[pitlanepalpatine]

3 tryes went, out of something like 70? So, 4%. 2 of those on the same team, the team who have seen a greater performance increase compared to the others, who are obviously putting more strain on the tyres which were not necessarily designed for them. Both Bottas and Sainz said they had vibrations yet, the teams took the risk, and it failed. Push the limits you sometimes reach the end of those limits.

 

But we can't have Hamiltons record campaign undermined...this needs to be fixed immediately!!!

[noikeee]

Can't think of another instance where the driver admits liability for a shunt and the video shows it was a failure.

Maybe there's something to read here about how low Kvyat's confidence is?

[ANF]

Maybe there's something to read here about how low Kvyat's confidence is?

In Austria he apologised to the team when Vettel pushed him off the track in the braking area... https://forums.autos...alty/?p=9120740

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Nobody complains about Goodyear in Adelaide 1986

Yet everyone praises Adelaide 1986 as one of the best F1 races evee

Stop complaining and enjoy these imperfect moments of F1

They wont last forever

[Sterzo]

The information released is frustratingly vague:"the resulting high wear meaning that it was less protected from the extreme forces in play" is just another way of saying: the tyres failed after being used for a long time. We know that. It doesn't tell us whether the tread wore so thin it cracked, or if the carcass failed at the shoulder. If the latter, then it's not actually due to wear but to fatigue.

 

In any case, for the next race they should mandate a maximum distance for each tyre to be on the safe side.

[Sam1]

Doesn't matter if it's 40, 50, or 1000 laps, they should fade dramatically in performance, not disintegrate.

its what the sport agreed to blame the fia for wanting to spice up F1

 

 

Maybe the teams shouldn't have rejected the 2020 tyres in preference to the 2019 ones.

 the sport agreed and people think its pirelli fault  

Edited by Sam1, 05 August 2020 - 09:49.

[Retrofly]

Im not sure why people keep saying the tyres "exploded", all 3 on the front left were deflates, all of the drivers felt it go and none of them spun or crashed as a result.

 

Kvyat's seems very odd, it looks like the tire just fell off the rim, he never mentioned it deflating so it was either a catastrophic failure of the tire or the wheel hub. This kind of failure is a lot more scary than the others and should probably be investigated and looked into more.

 

I still find it strange when Perelli get moaned at for the state of the tires, people harking back to "goodyear" and "bridgestone". Do people honestly think with 20 years of time and technology progression Perelli couldn't make tires to surpass those? Please think about it for a second. Of course they could.

Whatever difficulties Pierelli have, its down to the narrow requirements imposed on them by the FIA. This is not a manufacturer issue but a requirements issue. 

 

The tires are too hard anyway, 1 stop races have and always will be boring, 2 stops seems to be on the money, 3 stops and it starts getting a bit silly. Looking forward to  a 2 stop race this weekend.

Edited by Retrofly, 05 August 2020 - 09:52.

[Sennasational]

I'm struggling to see any justification of tyres 'deflating, exploding or disintegrating' whatever word you choose to call it, the tyre failed. No one asked Pirelli to make tyres that fail, they asked them to make tyres that degrade. Now, under extreme degradation the tyre will always fail eventually, but there is an issue when that failure happens within the recommended tyre life. Furthermore, the tyre didn't really degrade... Lewis said he could keep up his pace right until the moment the tyre suffered a total structural failure. That's sort of the opposite of what Pirelli were asked to make.

 

The tyres need to be a balance of speed and wear, the harder a driver pushes the more quickly the tyre should wear - ultimately I would rather see speed rewarded over conservation, but the weight of that balance is a separate issue. Fundamentally, the tyres at Silverstone aren't performing as they were designed. I don't mind an extreme performance drop off if you push the tyres too hard for too long, but that is not the same as a catastrophic structural failure of the tyre. If nothing else, it's dangerous.

[Garndell]

So it was tyre wear according to Pirelli, so no need for kerb modifications...

https://www.autospor...xit-of-becketts

[ATM]

Maybe it’s time to overview the 2020 tires (if they’re strurdier) and convince the teams to switch over. We’ve got Mugello with high tire stress (at least according to the map circuit and predictions) and the run-off areas are really old school.

[monolulu]

So it was tyre wear according to Pirelli, so no need for kerb modifications...

https://www.autospor...xit-of-becketts

In the Merc race debrief James Vowles said that Lewis & Max lost a set of medium tyres because of cuts & Bottas one back tyre. Lewis obviously spun but the other 2?

[DaddyCool]

Really like this modern F1 approach - just go as fast as you can and pray like hell that your shitty Pirellis won't disintegrate, or the kerbs won't break apart your suspension #safetyfirst

[MikeTekRacing]

So it was tyre wear according to Pirelli, so no need for kerb modifications...

https://www.autospor...xit-of-becketts

I don;t like this solution. 

is it dangerous to drive on gravel - fantastic. Then stay the f*** away from it. Installing a kerb there will mean cars will now just go through there 100% of the time and you changed the track layout

[KnucklesAgain]

Not posted yet?
 
Kvyat's F1 British GP crash caused by overheating wheel rim
"A mechanical issue led to the inside of the wheel rim overheating, burning the bead of the tyre," said Pirelli in a short statement issued on social media.
"So the bead was no longer able to seal the tyre onto the rim. This caused the deflation, with the tyre itself playing no part in the cause."
 
https://www.autospor...ating-wheel-rim

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 06 August 2020 - 18:18.

[ExFlagMan]

I wonder why this thread has suddenly gone silent?

[MrAerodynamicist]

As I have posted before, you need to understand that Pirelli are simply doing what the FIA has asked them to do, which is to provide tyres that degrade so that tyre stops are necessary and incidentally which also have a definite lap time delta between the various compounds. Any tyre manufacturer would experience the same issues given that particular design brief. And then the teams tend to run the tyres at cambers which are right at the limits of what Pirelli will agree to, so its actually surprising that there aren't more tyre issues.

 

Edit: And then as Clatter post above, Pirelli wanted a stronger construction for 2020 to cope with the increased speed and downforce the 2020 cars produce, but the teams decided to vote to keep the 2019 tyres. They got what they wished for.

 

Pirelli's problems have never been the level of degradation. People loved the qualifying tyres of old even if they only lasted a lap because you could abuse the hell out of them for that lap to get extra performance. With Pirelli, it's always been there excessive sensitivity to temperature that has been the problem.  The drivers have to mollycoddle the tyres all the time so you can't push hard and make extra stops work. The poor thermal response of their tyres is probably a consequence of Pirelli's manufacturing process compared to previous suppliers.

 

This remains the best article I've read on Pirelli's F1 tyres and ought to be mandatory reading for everyone. 

https://www.motorspo.../burning-rubber

Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 07 August 2020 - 08:17.

[Kev00]

Good decision from Pirelli to bring the softer compounds. Doesn’t make things so easy for the team and the general pace was closer together. More strategy, more stops, more fun. Hopefully we see more of this.

[PayasYouRace]

They didn’t bring the hard tyre from last time, no one had any blowouts. And we got a great race on top of that.

[GoldenColt]

Lewis seems to think it wasn't the softer tyres which caused Merc's problems, but the higher pressures.

[Kalmake]

Remember when Pirelli's couldn't handle the vertical loads Red Bull and only them put on the tyres in Malaysia many years ago.

 

Mercedes might be putting the most load on these. Then contact patch gets reduced for race two and temps go out the window.

[Dalton007]

Good decision from Pirelli to bring the softer compounds. Doesn’t make things so easy for the team and the general pace was closer together. More strategy, more stops, more fun. Hopefully we see more of this.

 

Yep. Softer tyres so more teams get a chance of being competitive.

[MarshalMike]

Or the fact that Michelin couldn't guarantee their tyres to last a Porsche Carrera Cup

 

Several years on and they still can't make tyres to last around Thruxton.

[ExFlagMan]

Several years on and they still can't make tyres to last around Thruxton.

 

Can any tyre supplier actually do that - after all the teams tend to push the setup as far as they dare (or even further in some cases), even if the tyre supplier mandates setup limits.

[MarshalMike]

It does seem to be a Porsche conundrum - the Ginetta GT4s were also using Michelin rubber and had no problems.