682 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

Tomorrow, Hamilton can equal schumachers record for most podium finishes in F1 (155) and if he gets to lap 32 he will surpass schumachers record for the most amount of laps raced....

What other records will be taken this year?

[Rakaman]

Well, he will equal the number of championships. Then break it next year. It doesn't look like anyone will challenge Mercedes any time soon.

[Astandahl]

Tomorrow, Hamilton can equal schumachers record for most podium finishes in F1 (155) and if he gets to lap 32 he will surpass schumachers record for the most amount of laps raced....

What other records will be taken this year?

I think pretty much everyone outside of the fastest laps in the race.

 

Only such an insane domination like Mercedes achieved in the last 7 years could have allowed someone to break these records. And of course and extremely talented driver.

[FirstnameLastname]

I think pretty much everyone outside of the fastest laps in the race.

Only such an insane domination like Mercedes achieved in the last 7 years could have allowed someone to break these records. And of course and extremely talented driver.

Indeed, although a lot of them were set in dominant Ferrari’s. I would say that having Rosberg and Bottas at least able to mount some sort of battle makes Hamiltons no less impressive than Schumacher

I thought Schumacher would hold his records for a long long time - for at least as long as fangio. For some time though I thought it would be Vettel who nicked them!

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 08 August 2020 - 20:14.

[Jovanotti]

It says a lot about Schumacher's records that it took such a long dominant period to come close.

[ARTGP]

I think pretty much everyone outside of the fastest laps in the race.

 

Only such an insane domination like Mercedes achieved in the last 7 years could have allowed someone to break these records. And of course and extremely talented driver.

 

I think the fastest laps record makes no sense to compare in this day and age anyway.  With guys taking free pitstops to bolt on a set of softs for 1 point (something unheard of in Schumacher's era).  There is argument to be had that Hamilton should already have the fastest laps record if not for certain rules changes and tire changes. I wonder how many fastest laps he'd have in the last 2 years that were snagged away by somebody getting the free pitstop done.

Edited by ARTGP, 08 August 2020 - 20:26.

[sennamaster]

Verstappen and Leclerc are still both quite young, who knows if they will have a sustained dominant period with their respective teams and may well break the records that Lewis sets.

[ARTGP]

Verstappen and Leclerc are still both quite young, who knows if they will have a sustained dominant period with their respective teams and may well break the records that Lewis sets.

 

I sure hope not....I don't mind if they alternate the title each year, but no domination please.

[KWSN - DSM]

Verstappen and Leclerc are still both quite young, who knows if they will have a sustained dominant period with their respective teams and may well break the records that Lewis sets.

 

Possible but I doubt it.

[TheFish]

Obviously wins will go this year.

It’s amazing that only 14 years after it was set, the wins record will go. It seemed impossible that anyone would get close. Obviously Lewis has needed the right circumstances, just like Schumacher did, but it’s incredible it’s gonna go so quickly.

[Yamamoto]

It's 19 years since Schumacher took the record. Prost had it for fourteen, Stewart had it for fourteen, I believe it was Clark before him for only a few years. I wouldn't put money down on anyone doing it, but guys like Verstappen and Leclerc can potentially have very long careers with 20+ races in a season. The number of drivers in the most Grands Prix started list that have raced within the last few years is telling. Schumacher's record looked unbeatable, I'm not sure I feel the same with Lewis. Of course, we can only speculate as to what his final tally will actually be.

[Dutchrudder]

if he gets to lap 32 he will surpass schumachers record for the most amount of laps raced....

Is this correct? Hamilton will have raced the most amount of laps of anybody ever? Surely Kimi has more than him?

[KevR]

There once was a driver destined to break all those Schumacher records and he should be here right now doing that and he knows it. A few wrong decisions and team choices and he's now far off those records and will never have a chance to even get close.

[PayasYouRace]

According to Forix, Schumacher raced 16,825 laps. Hamilton is currently on 14,480. He won't be surpassing that one for a long time.

 

Raikkonen is on 16,794, so he'll steal that record tomorrow if he makes it to lap 31.

 

 

Also, Hamilton is 440 laps shy of the lap led record, so he'll still need a while before breaking that one.

[Astandahl]

It's 19 years since Schumacher took the record. Prost had it for fourteen, Stewart had it for fourteen, I believe it was Clark before him for only a few years. I wouldn't put money down on anyone doing it, but guys like Verstappen and Leclerc can potentially have very long careers with 20+ races in a season. The number of drivers in the most Grands Prix started list that have raced within the last few years is telling. Schumacher's record looked unbeatable, I'm not sure I feel the same with Lewis. Of course, we can only speculate as to what his final tally will actually be.

It's all about being good and having dominant cars.

 

If someone else will enjoy a domination like Mercedes in the hybrid era then only the sky is the limit

Edited by Astandahl, 08 August 2020 - 20:42.

[Dutchrudder]

There once was a driver destined to break all those Schumacher records and he should be here right now doing that and he knows it. A few wrong decisions and team choices and he's now far off those records and will never have a chance to even get close.

This is ridiculous. Those records are a product of extreme talent, hard work, and a hefty amount of right place/right time luck.

To say anybody should have broken them if it wasn’t for this or that is crazy.

[Yamamoto]

There once was a driver destined to break all those Schumacher records and he should be here right now doing that and he knows it. A few wrong decisions and team choices and he's now far off those records and will never have a chance to even get close.

 

I see your point, but he had a good career regardless. I doubt Jenson has any major regrets.

[Massa_f1]

Tomorrow, Hamilton can equal schumachers record for most podium finishes in F1 (155) and if he gets to lap 32 he will surpass schumachers record for the most amount of laps raced....

What other records will be taken this year?

 

Be it this year or next I have already accepted a long time ago that my favourite driver of all time is going to have the majority of his records broken. His fastest laps record may stand everything else is going to go to Lewis.

 

Will guys like Max or Charles be able to beat Lewis's records

I doubt it because once F1 gets itself out of this Mercedes domination I doubt the sports regs will get itself into a position were domination for this length of time can repeated.

[Branislav]

Schumachers records? I thought this is a team sport.

[FirstnameLastname]

According to Forix, Schumacher raced 16,825 laps. Hamilton is currently on 14,480. He won't be surpassing that one for a long time.

Raikkonen is on 16,794, so he'll steal that record tomorrow if he makes it to lap 31.


Also, Hamilton is 440 laps shy of the lap led record, so he'll still need a while before breaking that one.

Indeed - my eyes have failed me. It’s Raikkonen, not Hamilton WBI can take the laps raced record.

[FirstnameLastname]

I see your point, but he had a good career regardless. I doubt Jenson has any major regrets.

He was talking about Montoya, obvz

[Marklar]

I actually made a bet with a friend of mine many many years ago when Vettel was winning left and right that I dont think that anyone ever will get close to breaking Schumacher's winning record. He stopped following F1 not too long after this, so I hope he doesnt remember

[KevR]

This is ridiculous. Those records are a product of extreme talent, hard work, and a hefty amount of right place/right time luck.

To say anybody should have broken them if it wasn’t for this or that is crazy.

You basically agreed with what I said in the first part of the post and disagreed in the second 😄 trying to disagree just for the sake of it?

[KevR]

I see your point, but he had a good career regardless. I doubt Jenson has any major regrets.

I'm not sure Jenson is coming back in 2021 but the guy I had in mind sure is.

Edited by KevR, 08 August 2020 - 21:23.

[SenorSjon]

I think the fastest laps record makes no sense to compare in this day and age anyway.  With guys taking free pitstops to bolt on a set of softs for 1 point (something unheard of in Schumacher's era).  There is argument to be had that Hamilton should already have the fastest laps record if not for certain rules changes and tire changes. I wonder how many fastest laps he'd have in the last 2 years that were snagged away by somebody getting the free pitstop done.

 

 

Just like the pole record with the qualifying systems Schumacher had. When the Ferrari was fastest, he still had one lap and/or race fuel qualifying for most of that era. I'm still a bit sad his records will be broken. It almost seems the FIA wants it this way since they do nothing to hamper Mercedes like they did Ferrari in 00-04 (while only 02 and 04 were runaway titles... imagine that).

[absinthedude]

All records eventually get broken. When Mansell won 9 races and took 11 poles in 1992 some journalists were speculating those records might stand forever. 

[FLB]

All records eventually get broken. When Mansell won 9 races and took 11 poles in 1992 some journalists were speculating those records might stand forever. 

As they did for Prost's 51 wins.

Edited by FLB, 08 August 2020 - 21:30.

[Massa_f1]

Just like the pole record with the qualifying systems Schumacher had. When the Ferrari was fastest, he still had one lap and/or race fuel qualifying for most of that era. I'm still a bit sad his records will be broken. It almost seems the FIA wants it this way since they do nothing to hamper Mercedes like they did Ferrari in 00-04 (while only 02 and 04 were runaway titles... imagine that).

 

Agree. Had the FIA not messed around with qualifying purely to try and stop Ferrari  and Schumacher he  would of had a fair few more poles am sure.

Not mention he had to spend the whole of the 1990s qualifying against Adrian Newey machines which for a lot of the time could be more than one second faster than anyone else.

[Brawn BGP 001]

I think pretty much everyone outside of the fastest laps in the race.

 

Only such an insane domination like Mercedes achieved in the last 7 years could have allowed someone to break these records. And of course and extremely talented driver.

And a few extra races per season (heck even this season might be 16-18 races).

 

I'm pretty sure these new records by Ham will never be broken bar possibly podiums by Verstappen. He will end up with about 125+ poles and wins.

Edited by Brawn BGP 001, 08 August 2020 - 21:36.

[ArrowsLivery]

Keep in mind that Michael and Ferrari were, not dominant, but championship contending almost every year from 97 to 06. So it’s not that surprising that it took 7 years of Merc domination to get close to his records.

[Dutchrudder]

You basically agreed with what I said in the first part of the post and disagreed in the second 😄 trying to disagree just for the sake of it?

No, I think you saying anybody deserves those records who hasn’t actually achieved them is ridiculous.

The guy that mentioned Button, well JB crossed my mind also, a few different things going on at Honda and he could have dominated for most of the last decade.

Schumacher and Hamilton have both been the type to galvanise the team around them. I assume you are referring to Alonso. During the Suzuka race of Alonso’s first championship season he famously claimed the team weren’t working for him.

[Augurk]

More races each season and the longest and most consistent team dominance streak in the history of F1 is what it took for anyone to get close to Schumacher's records.

I still think his are more impressive, especially as he willingly, after 2 world titles, joined a team that was far from ready to challenge for titles and - together with the other members of the dream team - built it back up to take the fight to the better cars on the grid from the next year on. This cost him the possibility of more titles and wins, as he could've been driving more competitive cars than that. Then there is the fact he never was in a team that ran away without any real competition for 7+ years long.  

 

Also I think Hamiltons success partly builds on the groundwork done by part of the dream team (Schumacher/Brawn) at the beginning years of this current Mercedes outfit. 

 

Hamilton is an amazing driver but the circumstances around his insane amount of succes these past few years make it very hard to judge them or place them within the context of what other greats of the sport have done. 

[Branislav]

It's irrelevant. Best car wins.

[kernel]

More races each season and the longest and most consistent team dominance streak in the history of F1 is what it took for anyone to get close to Schumacher's records.
I still think his are more impressive, especially as he willingly, after 2 world titles, joined a team that was far from ready to challenge for titles and - together with the other members of the dream team - built it back up to take the fight to the better cars on the grid from the next year on. This cost him the possibility of more titles and wins, as he could've been driving more competitive cars than that. Then there is the fact he never was in a team that ran away without any real competition for 7+ years long.

Also I think Hamiltons success partly builds on the groundwork done by part of the dream team (Schumacher/Brawn) at the beginning years of this current Mercedes outfit.

Hamilton is an amazing driver but the circumstances around his insane amount of succes these past few years make it very hard to judge them or place them within the context of what other greats of the sport have done.

Schumacher didn’t build anything by himself. Tired of this myth being brought up all the time. He benefited from the largest budgets, a solid crew of engineers (save for Newey), the sharpest strategists and minds to navigate the political minefield that is FOM/FIA in Todt and Brawn, a subservient second driver, and a dedicated tyre manufacturer ensuring his and the team’s needs were met. Oh, and a FIA that more often that not favoured Ferrari so much that it became a meme in the early-00s.

[Squeed]

Schumachers records? I thought this is a team sport.

 

Keep in mind that Michael and Ferrari were, not dominant, but championship contending almost every year from 97 to 06. So it’s not that surprising that it took 7 years of Merc domination to get close to his records.

And they had bespoke tires that other contending teams did not. 

[KevR]

Also remember the cars nowadays are much easier to drive than in the past. That makes those records a little less impressive IMHO.

[FirstnameLastname]

And they had bespoke tires that other contending teams did not.

And a team mate that was there with the aim of helping and not hindering/challenging him

[Branislav]

Also remember the cars nowadays are much easier to drive than in the past. That makes those records a little less impressive IMHO.

And with DRS. It's not real win.

[kernel]

Also remember the cars nowadays are much easier to drive than in the past. That makes those records a little less impressive IMHO.

Schumacher had traction control for most of his Ferrari titles IIRC.

That’s not HAM’s fault that F1 went the way it did. Otherwise might as well give up, and discount any title before 1970.

[Branislav]

And a team mate that was there with the aim of helping and not hindering/challenging him

That's always been.

[Ellios]

Race wins is the big one.

 

Hamilton bluffs and says he doesn't know or acts surprised when discussing records but he keenly knows them and I'm convinced it's this that drives him to set the bar much higher.

 

Remove Hamilton from Merc dominance and I do not believe another driver would have racked up the stats Hamilton has. A great driver finds a great team.  

[Branislav]

Race wins is the big one.

 

Hamilton bluffs and says he doesn't know or acts surprised when discussing records but he keenly knows them and I'm convinced it's this that drives him to set the bar much higher.

 

Remove Hamilton from Merc dominance and I do not believe another driver would have racked up the stats Hamilton has. A great driver finds a great team.  

What you mean? Every top driver would clinched the titles from 2014 in silver car.

[P123]

People thought that, then watched 2017 and 2018.

[ClubmanGT]

Well, he will equal the number of championships. Then break it next year. It doesn't look like anyone will challenge Mercedes any time soon.

 

Perhaps the Schumacher era is notable due to the many changes to the points, tyres, cars and other regs to try and give other teams a look in.

 

I can't see anywhere near as much hand-wringing over Mercedes' prolonged dominance in the British F1 press for some weird reason. 

[CharlesWinstone]

Of course. As long as there are no rule changes Mercedes will tumble Schumachers records.

[dissident]

If the trend of longer seasons continues even Hamilton's records won't be safe. 

[SenorSjon]

Schumacher didn’t build anything by himself. Tired of this myth being brought up all the time. He benefited from the largest budgets, a solid crew of engineers (save for Newey), the sharpest strategists and minds to navigate the political minefield that is FOM/FIA in Todt and Brawn, a subservient second driver, and a dedicated tyre manufacturer ensuring his and the team’s needs were met. Oh, and a FIA that more often that not favoured Ferrari so much that it became a meme in the early-00s.

Are you talking about Hamilton again?

[JimmyClark]

I think Schumacher's best seasons were 1997-2000, despite controversy (Jerez in particular) and bad luck (Silverstone '99), given that he was in a car that started many of those seasons 0.5-1s slower than his rivals yet still took the titles to the final races. Granted, he had decent reliability and the points system at the time helped, but man I remember some of his performances in a quite awful car at times were stonking. I just haven't seen anything like it since. In a way it is sad to see Hamilton reaching these records fairly unimpeded; I just wish we saw him more having to drag an inferior car up to the top like Schumacher did on such a consistent basis, mainly because he hasn't been in that position (2009 was the worst he's had). Indeed, on many occasions at Mercedes when a weekend isn't going his way he does tend to drive within himself and his teammate picks up the pieces (although that has become less evident recently). 

 

But I don't want to disrespect his achievements; by the same token, Hamilton hasn't been given the opportunity to show this side of himself for many years - we all know he has that within him. You don't see drives like Silverstone 2008 come from a mere mortal. But now the circuits are more forgiving, the cars more planted and reliable, the strategy more consistent due to the computing power available to the teams, and he drives for a team so desperate for constant 1-2s in a long-life era he has to drive within himself to save the car and tyres - it just looks a lot easier, which I can imagine annoys him deep down. Also, crucially, I think back in Schumacher's pre-dominance era you could transcend the cars with driving skill a lot more, especially on those horrible skittish grooved tyres. Qualifying laps are the only time Hamilton can show his true talent in this modern era of F1 in such a dominant car. 

 

TL;DR - Both are amazing drivers who deserve their records; but I just felt Schumacher had so much more impact when he achieved them than Hamilton does right now. Which is a shame. I think Brundle alluded to a similar sentiment earlier. 

[Paco]

Possible but I doubt it.

 

Agreed..

 

Future formula appears to be going spec spec spec so doubt TEAM dominance for a decade will be hard to imagine... the idea for 2022 is less chassis more driver in theory so less a chance for this type of thing to happen again. 

 

Until Formula1 decides to fix the PU debacle that is the current gen model.. its just not going to be the playing field they want for 2022.. no reason to think they wont still make the best chassis and engine..maybe Honda will catch up by then and Ferrari a close 3rd to Honda..

 

Charles seems in a better position over Max to make a go of it if Ferrari can get the PU up to snuff.. I just can't see RB staying in for much longer if stay the course and not getting within a striking distance..   So Max will need to find someone who can take on Ferrari and that's going to be a tall ask when Mercedes F1 bows out as a constructor... they'll probably suffer a performance loss pretty quickly... 

[discover23]

Just like the pole record with the qualifying systems Schumacher had. When the Ferrari was fastest, he still had one lap and/or race fuel qualifying for most of that era. I'm still a bit sad his records will be broken. It almost seems the FIA wants it this way since they do nothing to hamper Mercedes like they did Ferrari in 00-04 (while only 02 and 04 were runaway titles... imagine that).

In 03 the FIA did everything to give Ferrari the title.. remember tiregate against the Michellin teams..and the penalty they gave Montoya at Indy..?

Edited by discover23, 09 August 2020 - 02:14.