829 replies to this topic

[Calorus]

Williams have been bought, how will this affect their compitiveness their history and the management?

Sorry, title should read **Dorilton** Capital.

https://www.doriltoncapital.com/ - no particular F1 or motorsport pedigree or interest.

Edited by Calorus, 21 August 2020 - 08:21.

[wj_gibson]

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but capital investment companies have a poor record, historically speaking, in owning F1 teams.

 

The two most recent examples I can think of are GenII and Thesan Capital.

[Diablobb81]

I've read the title as Dorito Capital. yeah..

 

Sad that they couldn't survive independently  until the new regulations come into force.

[Jazza]

Probably only buying it to sell it to a pizza shop...

[Beri]

While on one hand it is good that the teams future is secured, and it's name will be retained, it is sad to see on the other hand that this was a step deemed necessary.

[Beri]

The Williams press release:
https://www.williams...orilton-capital

[Dolph]

Wow

[Jops14]

Hopefully it’s for the best, I imagine with the Concorde agreement and budget cap coming in teams are a lot more attractive now, there’s no reason they can’t end up like NFL franchises and turn over a profit, hope the name stays on but in the balance I think it’s a positive step

[TheFish]

Wow, didn't expect this to actually happen.

 

Will Claire be stepping down?

[Rediscoveryx]

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but capital investment companies have a poor record, historically speaking, in owning F1 teams.

 

The two most recent examples I can think of are GenII and Thesan Capital.

 

That Sauber thing worked pretty well though.

[Beri]

That Sauber thing worked pretty well though.

Yet they are in a position at the moment where Alfa Romeo could pull the plug and stop the title sponsorship. If that is the case, then Sauber will have a bad time also.

Edited by Beri, 21 August 2020 - 08:36.

[JimmyClark]

That Sauber thing worked pretty well though.

Not the short lived Qadbak fiasco?

[noikeee]

Inevitable. Hope whatever path they're onto won't lead to them losing the Williams name, but this had to happen sooner or later.

[johnwilliamdavies]

 

 

pleased to
announce the completion of the sale of Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited
('WGPE'), the operating subsidiary of the Group, to BCE Limited, a fund
managed by Dorilton Capital Management LLC (the 'Transaction').

 

According to the announcement on Bloomberg the takeover is by BCE. Nothing to do with the real BCE, surely?

[ralphrj]

As the top company at Williams is publicly traded on a stock exchange they have to publish more details to the markets:

 

"Williams Grand Prix Holdings PLC (WGPH, Ticker: WGF1) is today pleased to announce the completion of the sale of Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited ("WGPE"), the operating subsidiary of the Group, to BCE Limited, a fund managed by Dorilton Capital Management LLC for €152 million (the "Transaction"). WGPE consists of the Formula 1 business, the minority stake in Williams Advanced Engineering, and all other trading assets and liabilities including all third party indebtedness of the Group."

[Clatter]

According to the announcement on Bloomberg the takeover is by BCE. Nothing to do with the real BCE, surely?

 

Excuse my ignorance, but who are the real BCE?

[johnwilliamdavies]

Excuse my ignorance, but who are the real BCE?

Bernard Charles Ecclestone...

[Clatter]

Bernard Charles Ecclestone...

 

Never made that connection.

[jonpollak]

Unbelievable..
Jp

[Dolph]

Yet they are in a position at the moment where Alfa Romeo could pull the plug and stop the title sponsorship. If that is the case, then Sauber will have a bad time also.

Any privately run team is in trouble if a major sponsor suddenly pulls the plug. Sauber are no different.

[TheWilliamzer]

Feels like a punch to the gut 

[djparky]

Farewell Williams....give it a couple of years and the name will go

[Ben1445]

Unbelievable..
Jp

On the contrary I find it very believable 

[Widefoot2]

Feels like a punch to the gut 

Of course it is - you've now got to change your name to "TheBCEzer".  Anyone would find that traumatic...

[Broekschaap]

On the short term great news because the current situation didn't look very viable. But i really feel sad for them. Always liked their spirit very much.

[TheWilliamzer]

Of course it is - you've now got to change your name to "TheBCEzer".  Anyone would find that traumatic...

 

TheDoriltonzer

[wj_gibson]

Farewell Williams....give it a couple of years and the name will go

It feels inevitable that the new owner will seek to sell naming rights, or seek someone to buy into it with the promise of naming rights built-in to sweeten the deal.

 

I can’t think of any team in recent history that retained its historic name for very long after being sold.

[PlayboyRacer]

On the contrary I find it very believable

Yeah it's been on the cards for a while. I'm surprised it actually took this long tbh.

[hogstar]

A very sad, but completely inevitable conclusion. 

 

End of an era and that had already ended, but nobody told Williams. 

 

I admire their stubbornness to hang around as an independent, but had previous mistakes caught up with them in the end. 

 

 

[johnwilliamdavies]

It feels inevitable that the new owner will seek to sell naming rights, or seek someone to buy into it with the promise of naming rights built-in to sweeten the deal.

 

I can’t think of any team in recent history that retained its historic name for very long after being sold.

i would have thought the name is one of the most important things, like all the teams that try to pretend to be "Lotus".

 

Easiest way to make money would be to drop the manufacturing of gearbox etc. Do a deal to buy in a load of Renault gear say, get rid of the staff who design and make the components, Profit!!!

[TheWilliamzer]

And the Finances of that Doritos company doesn't look that rich TBF. I hope for a Fenway-Liverpool kind of scenario instead of just buying to sell later!

[Fastcake]

This sounds awful actually.

I’ve accepted a sale of the team for a while, and that wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. Frank is getting older, and there was no guarantee his children would be able to keep the team going in the future. Certainly it’s been a tough few years just keeping enough money coming to keep going - it certainly hasn’t looked like they have a real hope of competing at the front again for a long time. New ownership would most likely want full control, as all recent partnerships and the stock listing haven’t met with success.

A private capital firm though? Very few have a good reputation, and none really care about anything other than short term profits. They will walk away the first sign of failure, leaving the team in an even worse hole.

Suddenly being sold to a billionaire to give his son somewhere to sit doesn’t sound so bad.

[Clatter]

i would have thought the name is one of the most important things, like all the teams that try to pretend to be "Lotus".

 

Easiest way to make money would be to drop the manufacturing of gearbox etc. Do a deal to buy in a load of Renault gear say, get rid of the staff who design and make the components, Profit!!!

 

Why Renault gear rather than Merc?

[johnwilliamdavies]

Why Renault gear rather than Merc?

Williams-Renault has more of a ring to it, would probably be cheaper (which'll appeal to the new owners) and Racing Point have already got all the Mercedes bits. 

[WilliamsF1Fan]

Honestly I see this as nothing but a sad day really.  Yes, hopefully the future of the team is sorted (emphasis on hopefully) but it is the end of the team as we knew it.  

[TheWilliamzer]

About the naming rights, Investors, owners and and buyers know that acquiring Williams means a big heritage of numbers! If the new owners manage to make a race winning team, it's better for it to be win number 115 instead of 1st...

 

And as for the "buying parts from other manufacturers" part, it means firing lots of people, some of them were with the team for a long time and were faithful to it.

[femi]

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but capital investment companies have a poor record, historically speaking, in owning F1 teams.

 

The two most recent examples I can think of are GenII and Thesan Capital.

Venture capital companies are usually for a quick buck then move on. Clear now why Claire pushed for the Concorde agreement, that must been a requirement before purchase. It's now obvious why she came out boldly against Merc.

[Clatter]

Williams-Renault has more of a ring to it, would probably be cheaper (which'll appeal to the new owners) and Racing Point have already got all the Mercedes bits. 

 

The new owner may have aspirations to see the team move up the grid. That will be a more likely with Merc equipment, and might not be more expensive.

[lustigson]

Farewell Williams....give it a couple of years and the name will go

 

It feels inevitable that the new owner will seek to sell naming rights, or seek someone to buy into it with the promise of naming rights built-in to sweeten the deal.

 

I can’t think of any team in recent history that retained its historic name for very long after being sold.

 

I would think not, because this: 

 

i would have thought the name is one of the most important things, like all the teams that try to pretend to be "Lotus".

[noikeee]

I'd personally prefer them to link up with Renault than Mercedes, sure that won't help them be competitive but Renault need a B team. Might get a much nicer deal with Viry I'd think, given that need, Stuttgart got their hands in way too many things already.

[Ben1445]

I'm sure they'll try and keep the name as long as it presents them with the greatest value opportunity. If an opportunity comes along with a more attractive long-term financial proposition which meant dropping the Williams name they'd surely have to seriously consider it. Up until now any such discussions have basically been a non-starter. 

 

This is the nature of modern F1 though. The course has been set, programmed and doubled down on. And so this is what happens... 

[Ben1445]

I'd personally prefer them to link up with Renault than Mercedes, sure that won't help them be competitive but Renault need a B team. Might get a much nicer deal with Viry I'd think, given that need, Stuttgart got their hands in way too many things already.

Follow the Sauber path... 

 

Williams Racing - Mercedes -> Alpine Williams Racing - Renault -> Alpine Racing - Renault 

 

Best bit is I have literally no idea how serious I'm being here. 

[68targa]

Capital Investment companies are in it to make money, not lose it, so they must think there are opportunities to make a bob (or $) or two. If it saves Williams and gives it some further investment then it has to be good for all  ..... I hope !

[Spillage]

In one sense it's a real shame but in the lomg-term if it ensures the survival of the team then long-term that can only be a good thing. Let's hope they can survive long after this and enjoy success in the way Mclaren have since Bruce died.

[Anja]

Follow the Sauber path... 

 

Williams Racing - Mercedes -> Alpine Williams Racing - Renault -> Alpine Racing - Renault 

 

Best bit is I have literally no idea how serious I'm being here. 

 

As far as I know Alpine will likely end with the current model because of the crisis so I think we have to find something else 

Edited by Anja, 21 August 2020 - 10:15.

[noikeee]

Follow the Sauber path...

Williams Racing - Mercedes -> Alpine Williams Racing - Renault -> Alpine Racing - Renault

Best bit is I have literally no idea how serious I'm being here.

I think the incentive to keep the name (as the *main* name) is great, it's a name with such history of winning, you might win some value on the short term if you rebrand it for marketing, but you're losing long term value for the team with such a change by damaging the "Williams" brand IMO.

[PayasYouRace]

I suppose the warning signs were out there. Bit of a shame that the team won’t be Williams at heart any more. More of a shame that F1 is unviable for private teams any more, when they should be the backbone of the sport.

I guess it’s probably the best way to do it. The team won’t suddenly disappear, or if it does a few years down the line it won’t be the Williams I grew up with.

[dav115]

Anyone know whether F1 drivers' contracts typically have change of control clauses in? Wondering whether this deal could see Russell freed up

[Ben1445]

As far as I know Alpine will likely end with the current model because of the crisis so I think we have to find something else 

Oh yeah, forgot about that... 

[wj_gibson]

About the naming rights, Investors, owners and and buyers know that acquiring Williams means a big heritage of numbers! If the new owners manage to make a race winning team, it's better for it to be win number 115 instead of 1st...

 

And as for the "buying parts from other manufacturers" part, it means firing lots of people, some of them were with the team for a long time and were faithful to it.

Is it?

 

Midland renamed Jordan the moment they bought it.

 

BAT didn’t exactly seek to bring the historic name of Tyrrell back to the front.

 

If there is more brand value for the buyer in naming the team after their own pet project than in retaining the historic one then that is exactly what they will do.