135 replies to this topic

[femi]

 

"Ferrari is an iconic brand and they should be racing at the very front,” he said. “It’s not good for Formula 1, it’s not good for the competition at the front.

“I very much feel with all the Tifosi and employees of Ferrari for this lack of performance. At the end one must question the priorities that have been set in recent times and where the lack of performance comes from. But overall nobody from the fans and the Ferrari deserve such a result.” - Toto Wolff

Decisions made by specific individuals within Ferrari are to blame for the team’s situation, said Wolff.

 

He went on to say:

 

 

“It’s wrong to say ‘Ferrari priorities’, because that drags Ferrari and everybody in Ferrari into this. It’s maybe the decisions that have been made within the team, from certain members of the team.”

 

 

 

"it is not good for Formula 1 that its most famous team is struggling so badly." - Toto Wolff

 

Not at all a Ferrari fan, but couldn't escape a tinge of sadness and embarrassment for F1 watching Ferrari struggle the way they did this weekend. I actually thought they were sandbagging, even if the reason for such escaped me. Alas they weren't! Seeing a 4 times world champion having 2 bites at the Apple each on brand new fastest compound and yet could only quality on the back row after qualifying 2

 

Some may query or doubt his words were not heartfelt - I don't by the way. Regardless one's take on it, Toto is right. What happened at Ferrari couldn't have, without the active collusion of their top team brass. At the very least, it required such collusion to keep it going when rivals began raising suspicions publicly. He had the opportunity to pull the plug then if he wasn't in on it. He didn't, until publicly forced to do so. I am not a fan, I actually don't like Ferrari at all, even then, this painful, unenjoyable and totally not funny.

 

https://www.racefans...-members-wolff/

Edited by femi, 30 August 2020 - 00:11.

[loki]

They got bit when they interpreted a loophole that was closed.  It’s not a coincidence the performance tanked for all Ferrari powered teams after the FIA inspection.  It’s their own fault.

[Ramon69]

Toto saying what many of us think as well...

[Squeed]

It's hard to understand how a leader who put all of their eggs in an illegal engine development basket still has his job.

[Okyo]

Nothing new said, but glad he said it in the open.

[FullOppositeLock]

Damn, those are harsh words spoken about a fellow team principal. Unbelievable that the Ferrari top brass are standing by their man, for now at least.

[BRK]

Toto carries a long ladle,and has found a pot to stir.

That said, Ferrari are in sad shape, and only have themselves to blame for all the negative publicity.

[hodgy21]

They got bit when they interpreted a loophole that was closed. It’s not a coincidence the performance tanked for all Ferrari powered teams after the FIA inspection. It’s their own fault.

Couldn’t agree more. I have absolutely zero sympathy for Ferrari with respect to where they find themselves this season. They got caught cheating (yes I know), and now they are suffering the consequences of their actions due to their design philosophy being modelled around far more power than they should have had.

Toto is absolutely right, this comes down to some very shady top level decisions by a certain few people who made the conscious choice to cheat (yes I know).

I do feel sympathy for anyone in the team who was not party to these decisions and kept on working in the belief they would be fighting at the front again this year, because they are the ones who have been hurt by the selfish acts of others.

[ferrarista]

Unfortunately for Toto, the time of the sackings at Ferrari have gone; first of all, he knows nothing about what happens internally at Ferrari, asking Ferrari to sack Binotto he knows that he does no favor to Ferrari which instead needs stability.

Let’s see what happens to Mercedes, you dragged them in the RP gate Toto, didn’t you?
If Ferrari will go ahead, he will have to explain a lot of things.
We will see then if the board of Mercedes will like them or not.

A moral lesson from Toto, yeah.

[MichaelPM]

Arrivabene already got the sack, the most powerful and therefore culpable person during it's development.

[Massa]

It's not the first time that Wolff confront directly Binotto, I wonder why Ferrari stay silent each time.

[femi]

Perhaps we wouldn't be reading this if Ferrari hadn't launched a missile in the direction of Mercedes by attempts to make them look culpable in the almost dead allegations of illegal copying by RP. Let's see how Ferrari respond to Toto

[femi]

It's not the first time that Wolff confront directly Binotto, I wonder why Ferrari stay silent each time.

Ferrari have nothing to counter with or by remaining silent, they wish the whole thing would just go away. The irony is it's the on track performance of their cars that's supplying the fuel

[ExEd]

Sounds like he is implying they knew the risk or have been warned (?) and decided to go with it , Ferrari that is.
I’m pretty sure Ferrari had chances to change their “PU innovation” long before it reaches FIA.
These guys know stuff and legal teams talk to each other.
Wouldn’t surprise me if there been some phone calls happening on the background long ago.
Ether way it looks like he blames it to someone’s personal choice, I’m not even sure if he is talking about Binotto here.

Edited by ExEd, 30 August 2020 - 07:53.

[Marklar]

Unfortunately for Toto, the time of the sackings at Ferrari have gone; first of all, he knows nothing about what happens internally at Ferrari, asking Ferrari to sack Binotto he knows that he does no favor to Ferrari which instead needs stability.

Let’s see what happens to Mercedes, you dragged them in the RP gate Toto, didn’t you?
If Ferrari will go ahead, he will have to explain a lot of things.
We will see then if the board of Mercedes will like them or not.

A moral lesson from Toto, yeah.

Well, in this case it's "fortunately" 

 

It's hard to understand how a leader who put all of their eggs in an illegal engine development basket still has his job.

to be fair this engine was approved under Arrivabene (or at least I assume that Binotto told his boss what they build there). Of course you can blame him as a TD for doing this in the first place though.

As a TP I mainly blame Binotto for his driver management, any other Ferrari issue is still carried over from Arrivabene IMO.

[oli4]

He went on to say:

 

 

Not at all a Ferrari fan, but couldn't escape a tinge of sadness and embarrassment for F1 watching Ferrari struggle the way they did this weekend. I actually thought they were sandbagging, even if the reason for such escaped me. Alas they weren't! Seeing a 4 times world champion having 2 bites at the Apple each on brand new fastest compound and yet could only quality on the back row after qualifying 2

 

Some may query or doubt his words were not heartfelt - I don't by the way. Regardless one's take on it, Toto is right. What happened at Ferrari couldn't have, without the active collusion of their top team brass. At the very least, it required such collusion to keep it going when rivals began raising suspicions publicly. He had the opportunity to pull the plug then if he wasn't in on it. He didn't, until publicly forced to do so. I am not a fan, I actually don't like Ferrari at all, even then, this painful, unenjoyable and totally not funny.

 

https://www.racefans...-members-wolff/

 

I never thought that of you after all that Ferrari bashing 

[DeKnyff]

It's hard to understand how a leader who put all of their eggs in an illegal engine development basket still has his job.

True, but we don't know who took that decision and/or who approved it. We don't even know if that decision existed as such or if it was a long evolution of small details over the years. 

[NorthEast]

Is he definitely talking about Binotto as the individual, or Arrivabene?

[SophieB]

Is he definitely talking about Binotto as the individual, or Arrivabene?

Yes, don’t be coy at this stage, Toto - name names!

[tomjol]

Can we all just get over Arrivabene?

He was there to implement the will of Marchionne. That’s it. Blaming (or praising) him for much is silly.

[jjcale]

They got bit when they interpreted a loophole that was closed.  It’s not a coincidence the performance tanked for all Ferrari powered teams after the FIA inspection.  It’s their own fault.

 

If you dont try to exploit a loophole, you are not a racing team ....

[McLando]

"Ferrari is an iconic brand and they should be racing at the very front,” he said. “It’s not good for Formula 1, it’s not good for the competition at the front.

"it is not good for Formula 1 that its most famous team is struggling so badly."

 

Garbage. The sport doesn't owe you success based on passed performances or status, if anything he's probably just implying his own team having some god-given right to be at the front every year. Something that shakes up the running order? and dumps a team towards the back, heaven forbid    It would be nice to see Red Bull/Mercedes down there occasionally...and I don't just mean coasting passed when they lap everyone with a car on rails. Wolff would probably throw a hissy-fit and quit.

[shure]

I don';t think he's talking about Arrivabene.  The sentence structure suggests (a) current Ferrari employee(s), not (a) past one(s).  

 

Given some things he's said in the past I think it's probable he's talking about Binotto.  There's definitely no love lost there and it's something that appears to be eating away at Toto.  

 

I find this whole Ferrari thing to be very confusing.  If they were just pushing the rules beyond the limits and exploiting grey areas a bit too liberally, then I don't understand why Toto is so angry.  OTOH, if they were out and out cheating and not just bending but completely breaking the rules then would understand Toto's anger but cannot for the life of me understand why Binotto would still have a job.  If he's the architect of cheating behaviour then why haven't Ferrari sacked him for damaging them so badly?  Look at what it's cost them?

[jjcale]

Peter Windsor on Friday also repeated the rumour in this vid that when Binotto became TP there was a reorganisation that meant some senior technical staff lost their jobs with Ferrari and ended up being hired by Merc - they told Merc what Ferrari were doing and encouraged Merc to do the same - Merc went to the FIA for guidance (to see it they would be allowed - as eg they did with the DAS system before starting proper work on it) - the FIA said no and Merc then informally ratted on Ferrari and the FIA were forced to act ...   

 

Funny thing is - Peter has edited the story out of his vid ... so now I think its true    *

 

 

 

 

 

* but to be clear I cannot say the story is true, nor am I in a position to do so, I am only commenting on the fact that Peter told the story.  

 

 

[jjcale]

I don';t think he's talking about Arrivabene.  The sentence structure suggests (a) current Ferrari employee(s), not (a) past one(s).  

 

 

Toto was/is very good friends with Arrivabene (and probably knows the story of how he was ousted) .... I suspect this is part of why he seems to have no time for Binotto.  

[FullOppositeLock]

Unfortunately for Toto, the time of the sackings at Ferrari have gone; first of all, he knows nothing about what happens internally at Ferrari, asking Ferrari to sack Binotto he knows that he does no favor to Ferrari which instead needs stability.

Let’s see what happens to Mercedes, you dragged them in the RP gate Toto, didn’t you?
If Ferrari will go ahead, he will have to explain a lot of things.
We will see then if the board of Mercedes will like them or not.

A moral lesson from Toto, yeah.

[Sterzo]

Maybe Wolff was wound up by being savaged by Ferrari's "enterprising" engine and then being told:

 

“There have been protests, and there was the first verdict that said that what Racing Point did was illegal. This is the starting point,” said Binotto in front of the camera of Sky Sports Italia. “Stroll and Wolff may be furious, but there’s been a violation of the regulations here.”

 

Wolff does have a point. If Ferrari's loss of pace from 2019 to 2020 is entirely due to engine changes, then it implies their car was a dog in 2019 too, and they were taking points and prizes off Mercedes solely because of dubious means. Wolff is not going to love the person who did that.

 

[pitlanepalpatine]

Well, in this case it's "fortunately" 

 

to be fair this engine was approved under Arrivabene (or at least I assume that Binotto told his boss what they build there). Of course you can blame him as a TD for doing this in the first place though.

As a TP I mainly blame Binotto for his driver management, any other Ferrari issue is still carried over from Arrivabene IMO.

 

Really? Coz to me it looks like the bottleneck to sign off on those decisions would have been...oh wait...the guy now running Ferrari. Does no one remember how Bin-otto's credentials revolved around how well he managed the engine team...so not at all considering?

[SophieB]

It’s time like this that I most miss Luca di Montezemolo. You just know he would have responded to all ths by saying or doing something impressively nuts like sending all of Ferrari giant cardboard spiders to wear on their overalls or posting six live white doves to the head of Daimler.

Ah, but the time of such giants has seemingly passed.

[pitlanepalpatine]

It’s time like this that I most miss Luca di Montezemolo. You just know he would have responded to all ths by saying or doing something impressively nuts like sending all of Ferrari giant cardboard spiders to wear on their overalls or posting six live white doves to the head of Daimler.

Ah, but the time of such giants has seemingly passed.

 

How poignant and approriate would a decapitated horses head in Toto's bedsheets be 

[rf90]

Unfortunately for Toto, the time of the sackings at Ferrari have gone; first of all, he knows nothing about what happens internally at Ferrari, asking Ferrari to sack Binotto he knows that he does no favor to Ferrari which instead needs stability.

Let’s see what happens to Mercedes, you dragged them in the RP gate Toto, didn’t you?
If Ferrari will go ahead, he will have to explain a lot of things.
We will see then if the board of Mercedes will like them or not.

A moral lesson from Toto, yeah.

A political move? Deflecting scrutiny by giving people something else to discuss?

[Spillage]

It does seem to be just the engine - both Haas and Alfas out in Q1 tells you all you need to know. God knows how many times they'll be lapped during the Bahrain outser circuit GP.

[baddog]

After, what, 40 years I'm actually quite ashamed of being a Ferrari fan right now. Humiliated and its all their own doing.

[SophieB]

After, what, 40 years I'm actually quite ashamed of being a Ferrari fan right now. Humiliated and its all their own doing.

I’m sorry to hear that.

 

I am sure it’s of dubious comfort but I am convinced all the teams cheat, er push the envelope to the extent they can get away with it and always have done. Today it is Ferrari who have seemingly been caught with their hands in the till; tomorrow it will be someone else.

[Nathan]

Arrivabene already got the sack, the most powerful and therefore culpable person during it's development.

 

So assuming Arrive knew the risk and gave the thumbs up what is to be said about the head engineer that brought the idea and product forward?  But I really don't think TP's have a lot of time to scrutinize everything in development.  Yes, ultimately on him, but not just him.

[KWSN - DSM]

I find it a comfort  how even front running teams can get it all wrong, leave hope for all the minnows that they can steal; the occasional result both race and season wise - I do NOT think Ferrari was knowingly cheating, I think they developed around what they genuinely saw as a developmental loop hole, which was then found not to be the case. As usual I suggest to read the dictionary for the proper definition of cheating.

[ArrowsLivery]

I think we might soon be saying the same thing about Toto himself. But I digress.

 

On Ferrari, maybe I am wrong, but wasn’t Binotto’s claim to fame their monster PU? If so, his bosses should be quite sour right now. 

[FullOppositeLock]

I find it a comfort how even front running teams can get it all wrong, leave hope for all the minnows that they can steal; the occasional result both race and season wise - I do NOT think Ferrari was knowingly cheating, I think they developed around what they genuinely saw as a developmental loop hole, which was then found not to be the case. As usual I suggest to read the dictionary for the proper definition of cheating.

If they were circumventing the fuel flow meter as has been suggested there is no doubt about that being 100% full-on cheating.

[loki]

Wolfe isn’t making the comments out of concern.  He’s creating fear, uncertainly and doubt by making passive aggressive statements that may impact morale.  If he was really concerned instead of being cryptic he would say in no uncertain terms what he thinks.  Ferrari has always been a name in F1 but they’ve gone long stretches with poor or mediocre results.  Ferrari underperforming isn’t an outlier.    The reason they have 16 championships is they’ve been in F1 the longest.  When they’re hot they’re hot.  Right now they’re not.  While they have run competitively many seasons it wasn’t until the Schumacher era when they started to completely dominate.

[FLB]

Wolfe isn’t making the comments out of concern.  He’s creating fear, uncertainly and doubt by making passive aggressive statements that may impact morale.  If he was really concerned instead of being cryptic he would say in no uncertain terms what he thinks.  Ferrari has always been a name in F1 but they’ve gone long stretches with poor or mediocre results.  Ferrari underperforming isn’t an outlier.    The reason they have 16 championships is they’ve been in F1 the longest.  When they’re hot they’re hot.  Right now they’re not.  While they have run competitively many seasons it wasn’t until the Schumacher era when they started to completely dominate.

To win without peril is to vanquish without glory.

 

There is so little competition that Mercedes dominating isn't news anymore.

[ARTGP]

Wolfe isn’t making the comments out of concern.  He’s creating fear, uncertainly and doubt by making passive aggressive statements that may impact morale.  If he was really concerned instead of being cryptic he would say in no uncertain terms what he thinks.  Ferrari has always been a name in F1 but they’ve gone long stretches with poor or mediocre results.  Ferrari underperforming isn’t an outlier.    The reason they have 16 championships is they’ve been in F1 the longest.  When they’re hot they’re hot.  Right now they’re not.  While they have run competitively many seasons it wasn’t until the Schumacher era when they started to completely dominate.

 

He already did. He already dragged Binotto through the mud in Hungary.

Edited by ARTGP, 30 August 2020 - 15:21.

[KWSN - DSM]

If they were circumventing the fuel flow meter as has been suggested there is no doubt about that being 100% full-on cheating.

 

We do not know what they did, I doubt multi billion companies in a sport where everything is checked all the time, and all your competitors are sitting ready to pounce on anything which is borderline questionable.

 

So not I do not believe they did, until someone factually show me they did.

[MaxisOne]

He went on to say:

 

 

Not at all a Ferrari fan, but couldn't escape a tinge of sadness and embarrassment for F1 watching Ferrari struggle the way they did this weekend. I actually thought they were sandbagging, even if the reason for such escaped me. Alas they weren't! Seeing a 4 times world champion having 2 bites at the Apple each on brand new fastest compound and yet could only quality on the back row after qualifying 2

 

Some may query or doubt his words were not heartfelt - I don't by the way. Regardless one's take on it, Toto is right. What happened at Ferrari couldn't have, without the active collusion of their top team brass. At the very least, it required such collusion to keep it going when rivals began raising suspicions publicly. He had the opportunity to pull the plug then if he wasn't in on it. He didn't, until publicly forced to do so. I am not a fan, I actually don't like Ferrari at all, even then, this painful, unenjoyable and totally not funny.

 

https://www.racefans...-members-wolff/

 

Femi even as an "arms length" Toto admirer i would wish sometimes he would stay in his lane and not comment on the happenings or implosion of other teams. I also know that he has a particular dislike for Binotto so  for me it comes off as kicking a him and maybe a few others on the Red team in the balls. 

 

 

Then again it may be deserved.. it just seems very political and usually comments like this would come out of Red Bull leadership, not Mercedes leadership.

[femi]

Femi even as an "arms length" Toto admirer i would wish sometimes he would stay in his lane and not comment on the happenings or implosion of other teams. I also know that he has a particular dislike for Binotto so  for me it comes off as kicking a him and maybe a few others on the Red team in the balls. 

 

 

Then again it may be deserved.. it just seems very political and usually comments like this would come out of Red Bull leadership, not Mercedes leadership.

I agree that at his level, on deeper reflection, it might come across as poor taste. It's not just unlike Mercedes, but unlike Toto as well. That suggest to me that there is a lot more behind this that riled Toto beyond just personal dislike for Ferrari leadership. Having said that, Toto's statements weren't that far off the mark. Should someone in his position have gone to the press with it, that's something else. Was Toto acting as the public mouthpiece of an offended Mercedes top echelon? It was indeed a bare knuckled, public attack!

[ARTGP]

I agree that at his level, on deeper reflection, it might come across as poor taste. It's not just unlike Mercedes, but unlike Toto as well. That suggest to me that there is a lot more behind this that riled Toto beyond just personal dislike for Ferrari leadership. Having said that, Toto's statements weren't that far off the mark. Should someone in his position have gone to the press with it, that's something else. Was Toto acting as the public mouthpiece of an offended Mercedes top echelon? It was indeed a bare knuckled, public attack!

 

Ferrari blocked him from potentially joining F1 leadership. The wounds are deep.

Edited by ARTGP, 30 August 2020 - 16:03.

[gillesfan76]

My thoughts on Toto’s statement: He’s obviously annoyed that they cheated last year. I can understand the many reasons why. But at the end of the day, Merc won out and Ferrari not only lost, but are humiliated all by themselves.

 

So I don’t agree why Toto feels the need to, multiple times now, rub salt into the wound. It’s spiteful.

 

I’m also aware that I likely don’t have all the fact and there may be more reasons as to why Toto is doing this. Maybe he even feels that Mercedes have just as much old history and even better dominating performance to deserve more favourable financial terms on the Concorde agreement yet it still remains Ferrari that benefits the most. Maybe he is bitter about that. But regardless, it’s unprofessional and I’m surprised Merc top management haven’t told him to pipe down.

[femi]

Ferrari blocked him from potentially joining F1 leadership. The wounds are deep.

I thought existing regulation disqualified him.

[Atreiu]

This is nothing but throwing salt on open wounds.

[beachdrifter]

I find it shocking that there is no accountability whatsoever at Ferrari. They've been in sharp decline ever since Binotto "took over". Yet he is allowed to drag them deeper and deeper into the mud with each passing weekend. It's embarassing. With the positions he holds, he's responsible, and he keeps failing on every conceivable level.

Edited by beachdrifter, 30 August 2020 - 16:31.

[Radion]

It doesn't matter if arrive was initially responsible for that cheat engine, binotto had the whole of 2019 to sort it out. If I remember correctly, it was even only after the first races, where we saw that magical engine. So if anything, binotto fueled the development.