31 replies to this topic

[JordanIreland]

I was just looking at the final race of the 1995 season in adelaide and saw how badly Mark Blundell held up Frentzen for almost 2 laps and nearly caused 2/3 crashes with Frentzen as Blundell was getting lapped. If that happened today he would be banned or have his licence removed. How could such poor driving be allowed. It’s no surprise that was his final race in F1.

https://www.statsf1....k-blundell.aspx

While he did have 3 F1 podiums, it did require a LOT of cars to retire in front of him.

Outside of F1 he did win the 24Hrs Race in Le Mans and also got a second. But I’m not sure what value that really has?

We might complain a lot today about poor drivers or paid drivers, but watching Blundell drive so badly in adelaide 1995 was shocking and shows now much more professional today’s drivers are in comparison.

Just curious if anyone was a fan of Blundell?

[E1pix]

I was, he had many fine runs in Indycar after some years of secondary equipment in F1.

One bad race does not a career make, and I for one am tiring of reading uneducated comments that indicate all but the greatest drivers are outright failures for it.

[Jahn1234567890]

While he did have 3 F1 podiums, it did require a LOT of cars to retire in front of him.

Outside of F1 he did win the 24Hrs Race in Le Mans and also got a second. But I’m not sure what value that really has?

We might complain a lot today about poor drivers or paid drivers, but watching Blundell drive so badly in adelaide 1995 was shocking and shows now much more professional today’s drivers are in comparison.

Just curious if anyone was a fan of Blundell?

 

Not necessarily a fan. I was not even born when Blundell drove in Formula 1 so how could I be! But Mark Blundell was definitely a fine racing driver.

 

Blundell finished third on merit at the 1993 German Grand Prix. Besides Damon Hill none of the cars that failed to finish the race qualified ahead of Blundell. Senna did spin on lap one. But to finish third in a Ligier was a fine performance nonetheless.

 

And it definitely requires skill to win Le Mans and multiple Indycar races. Sure Blundell was not the best driver of his generation, but he was no slouch whatsoever.

[Blue6ix]

I was too rooting for Mark.

 

He really had secondary equipment issues and also when his career seemed to go for a better it never really did.

 

It just basically finished there when it did.

 

Or if there was a change to have a better things if not even some very delightful opportunities to be even a top driver, then there was the issue of really bad timing.

 

Actually he had that twice or thrice depending on years and teams.

 

First in Williams and then twice in McLaren.

 

Though without Nigel Mansell's abrupt end for his career and McLaren stint, Blundell's own F1 career might have been finished earlier most likely when still being just a test driver in 1995.

 

Mark was also McLaren test driver in 1992.

 

Sometimes I did hope back then in 1996 that Blundell would have retained as a second driver for McLaren, but contracts were contracts and they were uphold.

 

Maybe rightfully or maybe not.

 

Because in the 1995 contract situation for McLaren was basically a stop-gap year situation like in the 1987 with Stefan Johansson as a second driver.

 

And because Ron Dennis really had to wait for David Coulthard's contract to expire without some very expensive, early and in advance releasing contract fight with Frank Williams.

Edited by Blue6ix, 01 September 2020 - 00:05.

[SKL]

I was a fan back in his indycar days...   met him at RA  and he was nice to my young sons who were getting many autographs at the time!

[10kDA]

One bad race does not a career make, and I for one am tiring of reading uneducated comments that indicate all but the greatest drivers are outright failures for it.

Yes, I was a fan of Blundell when he ran Indy cars.

When I was racing, I would sometimes play a little game by asking myself if I traded bikes with a rider who had been consistently finishing higher than me, would I then be able to beat him (or her - Toni Sharpless and Kathleen Coburn come to mind)? Being as brutally honest as I could, given what I knew and saw how they rode, I like to think I was able to answer the question with a fair degree of accuracy. Some I probably could beat. Others would still beat me if they rode my bike and I rode theirs, even though I knew their bikes were quicker than mine. This was all for my own use and I never told anyone except my endurance race co-rider about my "ranking system". Beyond that I couldn't see how my opinion of anyone else's skill level, "good" or "poor", was valid.

I ran plenty of races stuck behind someone, not able to get around. Sometimes I got past on the last lap, sometimes on the last corner. Sometimes somebody was stuck behind me for the whole race, and sometimes they made it around before the checkers. Well, that's racing. My race became a focus on just that one other rider and that's how it goes sometimes. If somebody has the time to get all emotional about being held up, they've got enough energy to figure out a way to get around, thereby solving their problem. The idea that these days someone could be banned or lose their license for RACING is typical of the rulebook racing and meddling officialdom that I have come to abhor in practically every current big-time racing series.

My guess is that back in '95, Blundell and Frentzen were just racing. Racing often looks just like that.

[wolf sun]

I enjoyed watching Blundell in Indy Cars. At the time I found the racing in that series to be much better than in F1, at least on road courses, and Mark seemed to fit in perfectly.

 

Also, I generally think that very few „poor drivers“ make it to Grand Prix level racing.

[john aston]

Poor driver? By whose standards? Mark wasn't a Clark or Senna but he was more than good enough to belong on a GP grid. As for finiishng

second at Le Mans being airily dismissed as maybe not having any value  ....

 

I am not a 'fan' - as I grew out of fandom when I was about ten - but I saw Mark race many times and I can't say he lacked speed or commitment.  One of the most agressive and effective recovery drives I have ever seen was when Mark was punted off at the start of a FF1600 race and his battle to the front was a masterclass in controlled aggression . Seen his pole at Le Mans? If any of this is  'poor driving' I'll have some of that ... 

 

Driver holds up someone wanting to lap him ? In the days before racing drivers got fined fore behaving like racing dirvers that wasn't uncommon . We didn't use   to ban people  for something so trivial .

Edited by john aston, 01 September 2020 - 06:48.

[Rediscoveryx]

He took pole at Le Mans with a gap of something like five seconds to second place. Even though that sort of thing only can be done when you have a significant car advantage, it's still quite impressive. 

 

He was not a poor driver.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I lost count of the FF1600 races that I saw him win and like me, he was born in Barnet which made him okay.

[2F-001]

In the race originally cited by the OP as "evidence", we had the World Champion and another much-vaunted and widely admired driver colliding and taking each other out of the race; the race leader carelessly crashing in the pit lane (and possibly throwing away a win) and another driver completely messing up his pit entry and rejoining the track in a panic. 

 

Yet Blundell is castigated for a brief touch of what might have been overly forceful driving, a lapse of concentration, a missed blue flag, a misunderstanding (or whatever other explanation), but not causing an accident, with calls for his licence to have been revoked and condemnation of his reputation.

 

Can we stop this nonsense please?

Edited by 2F-001, 01 September 2020 - 07:49.

[Nemo1965]

If you think Blundell's quality should be discussed, or any driver from the 90's, you'd better look at the 70's and 80's. Thanks to Youtube I can now see races about which as a youth, I had only read (I am a F1-fan since I was five but television-broadcasts of F1 were few and far between in the Netherlands, back then). And my word... The average level of driving in F1 behind the top-drivers (Lauda, Prost, Hunt, Scheckter) was just very inconsistent and sometimes outright awful and dumb.

 

I recently stated elsewhere that Sergio Perez could have wiped the floor with many drivers that in the past kept being given chances in good or reasonable machinery: Derek Daly, Andrea de Cesaris, Bruno Giacomelli, Jean-Pierre Jarier, just to name a few.

 

Regarding drivers doing well in Le Mans and Indy and not in F1... F1 is NOT the ultimate test of driver's talent. There are drivers in rallying or Nascar who have the same innate talent of Lewis Hamilton but just have specialised in a different direction. 

Edited by Nemo1965, 01 September 2020 - 07:46.

[john aston]

Outright awful and dumb ? I must have missed that bit when I was watching Grands Prix in the 70s and 80s... Can we just stop this 'chronological snobbery' - the misguided belief that in the past everybody was somehow not as gifted as today . It  doesn't enhance this forum, We must be wary of rosy tinted specs too , but I really can do without asinine  comments about driver ability informed by nothing except grainy Youtube footage and the desire to sneer at anybody who wasn't a champion     

[Allan Lupton]

I think this thread must have been moved here from Racing Comments. Can I suggest it be moved back there . . .

[ensign14]

If you think Blundell's quality should be discussed, or any driver from the 90's, you'd better look at the 70's and 80's. Thanks to Youtube I can now see races about which as a youth, I had only read (I am a F1-fan since I was five but television-broadcasts of F1 were few and far between in the Netherlands, back then). And my word... The average level of driving in F1 behind the top-drivers (Lauda, Prost, Hunt, Scheckter) was just very inconsistent and sometimes outright awful and dumb.

 

The cars had more power than grip then.  They have more grip than power now.
 

[Steve99]

What a bizarre subject choice! Blundell was a fine driver. Not on the top echelon, but more than good enough to merit his F1 drives.  Nice bloke too.

[2F-001]

Considering that Mark B was test driver for two of the most prestigious F1 teams of the day (racing for one of them too) and racing for another well-funded and equipped team… and then considering the stature of the CART and sportscar teams and manufacturers that employed him… nobody who mattered considered him to be a poor driver.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

I was just looking at the final race of the 1995 season in adelaide and saw how badly Mark Blundell held up Frentzen for almost 2 laps and nearly caused 2/3 crashes with Frentzen as Blundell was getting lapped. If that happened today he would be banned or have his licence removed. How could such poor driving be allowed. It’s no surprise that was his final race in F1.

https://www.statsf1....k-blundell.aspx

While he did have 3 F1 podiums, it did require a LOT of cars to retire in front of him.

Outside of F1 he did win the 24Hrs Race in Le Mans and also got a second. But I’m not sure what value that really has?

We might complain a lot today about poor drivers or paid drivers, but watching Blundell drive so badly in adelaide 1995 was shocking and shows now much more professional today’s drivers are in comparison.

Just curious if anyone was a fan of Blundell?

He did fine in CART for a few years. Won Portland and Fontana in 1997

[Richard Jenkins]

Blundell especially impressed me in the Brabham in 1991.

[Steve99]

The OP is  Frentzen fan, it seems. Not sure this belongs in here!

[Michael Ferner]

Blundell was poor, indeed. I remember when he drove in F3000, he couldn't afford a new car, so he raced a second-hand Lola in which he finished second at Spa, arguably the ultimate drivers circuit, against a full field of brand new cars. Usually qulaified in the top ten, too. Was a time, when poor drivers could get to Formula One on ability alone, I guess that's no longer possible.

[sabrejet]

Did well setting IIRC the youngest pole lap at Le Mans? 

[MCS]

Blundell was poor, indeed. I remember when he drove in F3000, he couldn't afford a new car, so he raced a second-hand Lola in which he finished second at Spa, arguably the ultimate drivers circuit, against a full field of brand new cars. Usually qulaified in the top ten, too. Was a time, when poor drivers could get to Formula One on ability alone, I guess that's no longer possible.

I was thinking much the same and remembered this from somebody who knows when he sees a good driver: https://www.motorspo...with-raw-talent

[Michael Ferner]

Okay, found the video:

 

https://www.bing.com...B3&&FORM=VDRVSR

 

 

Watch from 5'00" onwards, Frentzen tries twice to outbrake Blundell from far, far back at the Dequetteville Hairpin, before he gets lucky third time around, showing Mark "the finger" (I recalled that bit of trivia, but forgot what it was all about - strange how memory works). Yes, Blundell was a lap down, but at the time with the pit stops that didn't mean much -  a few minutes earlier, he was just two positions back of Frentzen, and both were fighting for a good finish (HHF was lying second at the time, MB finished fourth). In my opinion, Frentzen was too far back to expect Blundell to move over. I can understand his frustration, as meanwhile Herbert behnd him closed a two-second gap, but Blundell had his own race to drive, and certainly no time to lose, either - I think he just missed out on a podium finish in the end. Tough luck for Frentzen, and I'm sure that little episode was forgotten by the end of the day - racing drivers don't have the long memory of fanboys.

 

Anything else?

[Risil]

Scored three CART wins in 1997 to his teammate Gugelmin's one, in every manner of circuit, track, weather and circumstance. However PacWest made some poor technical decisions preparing for their 1998 season (starting the year with a '97 Reynard, iirc) and Mark and Mo's results faded badly. And then they were stuck with the Mercedes-Benz engine which by 1999 was well below the standards of the Ford and Honda powerplants (and by the end of the year possibly Toyota too). If PacWest had been able to build on a 1997 when they had frequently been best of the rest, who knows how it would've all turned out.

 

In 2001 he was replaced by a young and bleached-blond Scott Dixon (it was 2001 after all), who was certainly an upgrade. But then Dixie would be an upgrade on most drivers. How he never made it to F1...

 

I know less about his career elsewhere but he was good value in the Ligier in 1993 and the Tyrrell in 1994. Had a memorable battle with Gerhard Berger at the German Grand Prix, which is surprisingly preserved in multiple Youtube videos:

 

 

Anyway, the Motor Sport magazine podcast with him was fun: https://www.motorspo...lundell-podcast

[jcbc3]

As for the topic: Blundell was a very fine and worthy F1 driver. No doubt about that. 

 

Not a fan of either Blundell or Frentzen, but to my eye the chop Mark gives at 6:26 is pretty indefensible. So fine driver caught in not his finest moment. Happen to them all.

[Nemo1965]

Outright awful and dumb ? I must have missed that bit when I was watching Grands Prix in the 70s and 80s... Can we just stop this 'chronological snobbery' - the misguided belief that in the past everybody was somehow not as gifted as today . It  doesn't enhance this forum, We must be wary of rosy tinted specs too , but I really can do without asinine  comments about driver ability informed by nothing except grainy Youtube footage and the desire to sneer at anybody who wasn't a champion     

 

Grainy? If I would have had a television with THIS quality back then, I would have been stunned!

 

1975 Silverstone International Trophy Live Coverage

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=lGQok2dgPkw

 

1978 Silverstone International Trophy

https://www.youtube....h?v=DxwuTMrvftc

 

 

I will give you an example of 'dumb' of a very gifted, even genius driver. In 1979 Jody Scheckter won the Monaco Grand Prix. His teammate Gilles Villeneuve had shone during the GP but had to give up with transmission problems. Therefore Jody's lead in the championship had grown considerably.  I quote from Gerald Donaldsons book The Life of the Legendary Racing Driver: 'Villeneuve was still stuck at 20 points and was unhappy about it. 'I've had bad luck,' he said, 'I should be ahead by ten points but things have worked out the opposite way. Everything's working against me.' But Jody (Scheckter) feels he was the author of his own fate. 'Gilles was always putting his foot down and running through the gears. He would change gears without taking his foot off the accelerator, which you can do with an old saloon car but you can't do with a Formula One car. He probably thought it was faster but the fraction it helps isn't worth it. And Monaco has a bump coming out of the corner onto the pit straight. Gilles would go over that flat out so the engine was screaming and when he hit the other side the car had wheelspin and jerked transmission hard. I used to change gears in between to save the transmission.'

 

For the rest, I agree with you. We should not be to critical of current drivers and not to look back at the past with too rosy tinted glasses. That is why I tried to add some perspective...Back then, as young kid, I could only bemoan the bad luck of Gilles... 

[Risil]

Okay, found the video:

 

https://www.bing.com...B3&&FORM=VDRVSR

 

 

Watch from 5'00" onwards, Frentzen tries twice to outbrake Blundell from far, far back at the Dequetteville Hairpin, before he gets lucky third time around, showing Mark "the finger" (I recalled that bit of trivia, but forgot what it was all about - strange how memory works). Yes, Blundell was a lap down, but at the time with the pit stops that didn't mean much -  a few minutes earlier, he was just two positions back of Frentzen, and both were fighting for a good finish (HHF was lying second at the time, MB finished fourth). In my opinion, Frentzen was too far back to expect Blundell to move over. I can understand his frustration, as meanwhile Herbert behnd him closed a two-second gap, but Blundell had his own race to drive, and certainly no time to lose, either - I think he just missed out on a podium finish in the end. Tough luck for Frentzen, and I'm sure that little episode was forgotten by the end of the day - racing drivers don't have the long memory of fanboys.

 

Anything else?

Just that like you I remember the "finger" incident distinctly. I was 6 at the time and watching the BBC re-run and was very entertained by the carnival of it all.

[Vicuna]

My initial thought was that JordanIreland was probably throwing out some bait for a laugh but somehow i doubt anyone starting a thread with such a title wouldn't have the wit to be cheekily provocative.

 

My next thought was 'why are threads with such insulting titles even given credibility by us respondents?'

 

There have been some poor drivers in F1 but the list that made F1 podiums is very short. The list that made F1 podiums and were employed by McLaren is shorter still but the list made F1 podiums, won Le Mans and won thrice in Indycar has no names on it.

 

i was at Adelaide in '95 - i don't need youtube to close my eyes and recall the relief on Damon's face, the delight of Panis and the sheer 'how the hell did that happen' shock of third placed Morbidelli. Gee if Blundell was "poor", where would Gianni rate? Sub-poor. i don't think i've ever seen a happier podium. As happy perhaps, not happier. A lot of wise heads have already posted on this thread - Brad West, E1Pix, E14 and Fines included.

 

If reading between the lines is a JordanIreland shortcoming, then Michael was being ironic. As well as being a sound driver, Blundell was a popular team member and obviously good in a variety of cars. So JI, have another go and next time don't be a tosser.

[absinthedude]

Mark is from my neck of the woods so I followed his career keenly. I remember some Autosport journo bemoaning what he saw as the fact that had Mark been named "Marco Blundelli", he'd be a WDC. That was a reference to the millions Marlboro Italia poured into young Italian drivers in the 80s and 90s. Mark was good, better than average, but I don't think he was WDC material. 

[Charlieman]

I remember the jokes when Brundle and Blundell were named as F1 team mates in 1991. Both had strong records in junior categories and I had hopes that both would achieve more. Never winners in F1 but I'm sure that both are proud of their results. Well done!

[Vitesse2]

I don't think this thread is going anywhere helpful. The 'Mark and Martin Show' seems an appropriate place to end it ...