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New Corner at Monza


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#1 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 12:19

Yes, you heard it here first. I kid you not, Alex Brundle just described this new corner. Apparently it's called the Parabolica HAIRPIN.

That will certainly slow the lap speeds around there..

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#2 john winfield

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 12:24

If only they'd told Derek Warwick in 1990. He might have been more careful.



#3 FLB

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 12:29

If only they'd told Derek Warwick in 1990. He might have been more careful.

Lotus had cameras that weekend. I'm sure the onboard exists somewhere (probably in Berni's vault)...



#4 2F-001

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 12:56

But what is the minimum radius for a 180 degree corner for it to be deemed a hairpin?



#5 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 12:59

Whatever it is, it's considerably less than the Parabolica, surely.

#6 2F-001

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 13:28

Oh, I agree; I'm just being awkward - as I'm sure you know!

(Otherwise Mallory Park could have a hairpin at each end.)

 

And I suppose I should have said "maximum"...


Edited by 2F-001, 04 September 2020 - 14:14.


#7 moffspeed

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 14:33

Yes, in similar vein a recent magazine article stating that the Aston Martin Virage was named after a famous corner at Le Mans.

 

Virage Virage I guess...



#8 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 14:52

I recall reading somewhere - a long time ago - that Adenauer Forst at the Nürburgring was named after the politician Konrad Adenauer ...



#9 Allan Lupton

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 15:07

This has the makings of some good fun at the expence of the pig-ignorant, who are always with us.

Can't help asking who or what is Alex Brundle?



#10 Barry Boor

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 15:11

The clue is in the surnáme. Alex is the son of Martin Brundle. He is described (by his Dad) as a professional racing driver who doubles as the second commentator at many of the F.2 and F.3 races on Sky.

#11 68targa

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 15:16

I suppose some American one mile oval tracks now have two hairpins?


Edited by 68targa, 05 September 2020 - 09:19.


#12 MCS

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 15:53

Oh, I agree; I'm just being awkward - as I'm sure you know!

(Otherwise Mallory Park could have a hairpin at each end.)

Gerrards.  Wonderful corner (not hairpin, as I know you know)!



#13 10kDA

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 16:34

I suppose this makes some American one mile oval tracks now have two hairpins?

Of course...

Lakegeneva.jpg

 

Lake Geneva (WI) Raceway, the inner oval was 1/4 mile paved with ZERO banking so the dragstrip could run through the middle of the oval, utilizing the same spectator seating facilities to view events on either track. The drag strip was eliminated after 1977 and the bigger, banked 1/3 mile oval was built in 1989. But even though the 1/4 mile oval was not exactly two hairpins connected by straights, without banking it must have felt like it.


Edited by 10kDA, 04 September 2020 - 16:38.


#14 moffspeed

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 17:45

Conversation with a current F1 driver :

 

> What speed were you carrying through Parabolica ?

 

F1D : Para who - are you being rude ?

 

> The final bend before the main straight - where Derek Warwick had his big one in the Lotus.

 

F1D : Oh you mean T11, the one between T10 and T1. Derek Warwick ? Is he related to Derek Warwick the FIA steward ? I thought Lotus made road cars, did they race in F1?

 

> Yes they won a lot of races and drivers/constructors championships including Graham Hill in 1968.

 

F1D : Graham Hill ? Was he related to...

 

> Yes, Yes.

 

F1D : Anyway back to the question, about 220 clicks - much the same as that funny downhill/uphill twiddly bit at the beginning of the lap at Spa - what's it called - ah yes,  T2...


Edited by moffspeed, 04 September 2020 - 17:47.


#15 airbox

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 18:10

Does this mean Eau Rouge will now be described as a chicane?



#16 moffspeed

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 18:42

Does this mean Eau Rouge will now be described as a chicane?

Quite possibly so, my above post was tongue-in-cheek with apologies to Seb Vettel who apparently has a great grasp on racing history and seems to be a grounded and well-balanced sort of guy. His 2020 season reminds me of Graham Hill in 1970 after his Watkins Glen accident in '69, not easy or comfortable to watch...

 

If you need a team member for your F1 quiz team I believe Karun Chandhok is your man..


Edited by moffspeed, 05 September 2020 - 01:34.


#17 opplock

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 18:53

Does this mean Eau Rouge will now be described as a chicane?

 

Eau Rouge was transformed into a chicane for the 1994 Belgian GP. I raced there in June 1994 and we left the circuit thinking we'd be the last people ever to enjoy the pre-emasculated short circuit. Fortunately the chicane was too ridiculous even for F1 and was never used again.  



#18 Stephen W

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 07:41

Yes, you heard it here first. I kid you not, Alex Brundle just described this new corner. Apparently it's called the Parabolica HAIRPIN.

That will certainly slow the lap speeds around there..

 

Obviously the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.



#19 Gabrci

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 09:20

This has the makings of some good fun at the expence of the pig-ignorant, who are always with us.

Can't help asking who or what is Alex Brundle?

 

He or it is someone or something who or that is paid to drive racing cars and also paid to give its or his opinion on it while you are posting on an internet forum. 



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#20 BRG

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 10:55

His 2020 season reminds me of Graham Hill in 1970 after his Watkins Glen accident in '69, not easy or comfortable to watch.


Really? You are comparing an entitled, over-paid and entirely hale and hearty Ferrari driver who is making a porridge out of his season largely out of pique at not being re-signed by the Scuderia, to a chap coming back from dreadful injuries and still scarcely able to walk, and who had lost his plum Lotus driver and had to make do with a privateer seat with Rob Walker and yet still drove his heart out to finish in the points at places like Monaco?

#21 10kDA

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 11:24

Really? You are comparing an entitled, over-paid and entirely hale and hearty Ferrari driver who is making a porridge out of his season largely out of pique at not being re-signed by the Scuderia, to a chap coming back from dreadful injuries and still scarcely able to walk, and who had lost his plum Lotus driver and had to make do with a privateer seat with Rob Walker and yet still drove his heart out to finish in the points at places like Monaco?

I think the comparison of results is valid. Suddenly the results for each driver are greatly diminished from what we have been accustomed to seeing, and it can be uncomfortable depending on how much we have invested in wanting to see either one do well. But you're right - the "Why?" and how it came about could not be more different for these two drivers.



#22 Barry Boor

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 14:48

Are my ears deceiving me? I could've sworn I just heard the aforementioned Brundle jnr announce that all the corners at Monza are named after past champions.

No, surely I didn't.......

#23 10kDA

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 16:45

Are my ears deceiving me? I could've sworn I just heard the aforementioned Brundle jnr announce that all the corners at Monza are named after past champions.

No, surely I didn't.......

Pretty sure co-drivers Gianpiero Parabolica and Jean-Pierre Hairpin were once co-champions of... something.



#24 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 17:14

It is like a piranha attack, the slightest scent of blood............still it is what makes this place one of internet's true delights, the band of free spirits and terrifying accumulation of knowledge.

 

Who cannot fail to enjoy a thread such as this that I stumbled across the other day while avoiding the urgent job in hand?

 

https://forums.autos...-magazines-etc/

 

Alex is a decent endurance driver and a good guy, I handled the team PR when his father and he drove at Le Mans. He is proper chip off the old block, perhaps cut him some slack as trying to whip up enthusiasm for F1 must be a strain, even Ian Fleming would struggle.



#25 10kDA

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 17:51


Alex is a decent endurance driver and a good guy, I handled the team PR when his father and he drove at Le Mans. He is proper chip off the old block, perhaps cut him some slack as trying to whip up enthusiasm for F1 must be a strain, even Ian Fleming would struggle.

True enough :rotfl:



#26 Alan Cox

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 09:17

Slightly off-topic here, but I was listening to a bit of Friday's practice on Radio 5 Live, and as there was bugger all to say about what was happening on track at the time, the commentators started discussing the names of corners, in particular corners named after a canal, as I think one of them had managed to translate Variante della Roggia as Canal Bend. It got them talking about other corners with canal in the title and one of them came up with Aintree. The other people in the commentary box seemed taken aback to learn that there was actually a race circuit alongside the Grand National course, and even more so that there had been British GPs held there. Not sure who they all were but Jolyon Palmer was one of them.

#27 doc knutsen

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 09:28

I recall reading somewhere - a long time ago - that Adenauer Forst at the Nürburgring was named after the politician Konrad Adenauer ...

Adenau is the name of one of the villages in the area.  An Adenauer could be somebody whose family originated from there. Whether Konrad's family does , I have no idea, there might be more Adenaus in Germany. Shades of JFK's "Ich bin (ein) Berliner" which was memorably translated by Eddie Izzard to " I am a doughnut" .  ;)


Edited by doc knutsen, 06 September 2020 - 09:28.


#28 wolf sun

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 16:04

Are my ears deceiving me? I could've sworn I just heard the aforementioned Brundle jnr announce that all the corners at Monza are named after past champions.

No, surely I didn't.......

 

Oh yes. Curva Grande, named after Il Grande John.  :wave:



#29 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 16:49

Oh yes. Curva Grande, named after Il Grande John. :wave:


Lesmo named after Les Leston and Mo Nunn

#30 wolf sun

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 19:24

Lesmo named after Les Leston and Mo Nunn

 

:rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:



#31 absinthedude

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 19:29

I thought the two lesmos were in a same-radius relationship



#32 LucaP

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 20:13

Roggia translated as canal is correct

#33 E1pix

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 21:42

I thought the two lesmos were in a same-radius relationship

You mean oval tracks are progressive?

#34 Thundersports

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 23:25

I had a chat with Alex at the Brands Masters event where he was driving a T70. He's a very enthusiastic and pleasant chap who drove the T70 very well over the weekend. He's a pretty good commentator and can't please everyone in the commentary box.



#35 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 21:33

Hmmm - where exactly is a canal adjacent to the Monza Autodrome?      :confused:

 

DCN



#36 cpbell

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 21:53

Hmmm - where exactly is a canal adjacent to the Monza Autodrome?      :confused:

 

DCN

Checking Google Maps, there's a river around 100 metres from the Lesmo corners, but that's it.



#37 arttidesco

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 09:04



This has the makings of some good fun at the expence of the pig-ignorant, who are always with us.

Can't help asking who or what is Alex Brundle?

 

05-IMG-0890sc.jpg

 

A handy sports car driver who made it to LMP2 in 2012 when he shared the #42 Nissan Zyteck above with his Dad, Martin, and Spaniard Lucas Ordinez. Q 1st in class finished 5th in class in the 2012 Silverstone Six hours.

 

10-DSCN7275sc.jpg

 

The following season he was driving #24 Morgan Nissan above with Olivar Pla and David Heinemeir and finished 2nd in the LMP2 class in the Silverston Six Hours.

 

IMG-8284sc.jpg

 

Quite a regular on the historic circuit these days, above winning the recent Masters Sportscar race at Brands sharing the #23 Lola T70 3B with Gary Pearson.


Edited by arttidesco, 12 September 2020 - 18:27.


#38 BRG

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 09:25

Checking Google Maps, there's a river around 100 metres from the Lesmo corners, but that's it.

That's the famous River Lambro, after which Lambretta motor scooters, Lambrusco cheap fizz and of course Lambroghini supercars were all named

 

But no sign of a roggia.



#39 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 10:44

And the Red Water is connected to a hairpin...

 

The Customs Hairpin as there once was a customs collecting place there. I have maps:

 

0605-90-aerialphoto1929.jpg



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#40 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 14:14

That's the famous River Lambro, after which Lambretta motor scooters, Lambrusco cheap fizz and of course Lambroghini supercars were all named

 

But no sign of a roggia.

la-reggia-racconta-la-roggia-pelucca-nel

 

La Reggia Racconta: la roggia Pelucca nel parco di Monza



#41 cpbell

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 14:56

That's the famous River Lambro, after which Lambretta motor scooters, Lambrusco cheap fizz and of course Lambroghini supercars were all named

 

But no sign of a roggia.

Interesting - I never knew that!



#42 cpbell

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 14:57

Unfortunately, the auto-translation doesn't sense much make to me.



#43 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 15:14

I got the impression that it wasn't a canal in the transportation sense, more like an aqueduct from springs which have now more or less dried up as the water table has dropped.



#44 Risil

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 15:57

I recall reading somewhere - a long time ago - that Adenauer Forst at the Nürburgring was named after the politician Konrad Adenauer ...

 

I expect the confusion came about because as Mayor of Cologne in the 1920s Adenauer helped provide state investment for the original construction of the Ring. (Or so says Nurburgring.org.uk!)

 

And you know what we English are like when we latch onto a foreign word that we recognize...



#45 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 20:02

I expect the confusion came about because as Mayor of Cologne in the 1920s Adenauer helped provide state investment for the original construction of the Ring. (Or so says Nurburgring.org.uk!)

 

And you know what we English are like when we latch onto a foreign word that we recognize...

Can't put my hand on it at the moment (memo to self - tidy up!) but I think it could have been in Cyril Posthumus's German GP book.



#46 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 20:35

If it’s there, I can’t find it. Posthumus wrote that Konrad Adenauer, in his role as Oberbürgermeister of Cologne, gave strong support to the Nürburgring project and put pressure on the German government to support it financially. That appears to be his only mention in the book.

#47 wolf sun

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 09:24

AFAIK, there is no connection between Adenau and Konrad Adenauer. Adenauer Forst having been named after the politician is about as correct as assuming Silverstone’s Becketts was named after Samuel Beckett.  :)



#48 Risil

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 10:05

When as we all know racing at Silverstone started decades before Quantum Leap hit the airwaves.



#49 john winfield

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 11:25

AFAIK, there is no connection between Adenau and Konrad Adenauer. Adenauer Forst having been named after the politician is about as correct as assuming Silverstone’s Becketts was named after Samuel Beckett.  :)

 

Agreed, there's probably no Silverstone connection, but I'm told that Nobel prize-winning writer Samuel Beckett's two motor racing biographies Murphy and Watt are worth a read.  Apparently they are well-researched, if slightly surreal, tributes to early American racer Jimmy Murphy and more recent Danish star Jason Watt. 


Edited by john winfield, 12 September 2020 - 11:41.


#50 cpbell

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 12:02

I got the impression that it wasn't a canal in the transportation sense, more like an aqueduct from springs which have now more or less dried up as the water table has dropped.

Indeed, but I can't find any of the landmarks mentioned in the translation of that article in order to determine whether the canal runs anywhere near the Roggia chicane.