389 replies to this topic

[Calum]

The Canada 2010 Grand Prix had an unusual amount of tyre deg and unusual behaviour with the rubber. 

It was the race deemed exciting enough to cause those in charge to use as a blueprint for the next era of tyres, with Pirelli winning the tender.

 

Monza 2020 throws up one of the most unpredictable race wins in the last decade. It essentially had a 'reverse grid' with the red flag.

 

Based on their previous for a knee-jerk reaction (that tyre 2010 example) reckon they'll justify a "reverse grid race" qualifying format based on today's race and the excitement and anticipation it created?

 

I personally don't think it's the right way to go, but I could believe it if they said that's their plan.

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

[noikeee]

Please don't.

Genius Crofty was already lobbying for this as the race was going on. Please lock him in a room until he forgets about it.

[danmills]

Get the season over by 4/5 mark then use the remaining races for experiments as the titles done. 

[HeadFirst]

When you create unpredictable, it quickly becomes predictable.

[SonGoku]

Funny, because in that case Gasly's win would never been rated and praised as it is now.

Edited by SonGoku, 06 September 2020 - 16:56.

[ARTGP]

Get the season over by 4/5 mark then use the remaining races for experiments as the titles done. 

 

This, I don't know why Formula 1 doesn't have non-championship exhibition races. 

[HeadFirst]

Please don't.

Genius Crofty was already lobbying for this as the race was going on. Please lock him in a room until he forgets about it.

 

To avoid having to listen to Crofty, I'd consider moving back to the USA.

[CountDooku]

It looks like Crofty's unending genius is spreading to the wider fanbase.     

[Dalton007]

I think F1 will adapt to two races per weekend. The sprint race on Saturday, Grand Prix on Sunday. It needs to change to give more drivers a chance to compete. I understand the reticence, but nothing stays the same forever. It will entice more F1 entries, perhaps, because more teams can score big points. It's worth researching to see the opportunities that could come from this.

[SophieB]

When you create unpredictable, it quickly becomes predictable.

 

Yes. It’s like the difference between rain during a race and deploying sprinklers. 

[Red5ive]

Wont happen.

 

As today showed - It would gift wins to a driver like Gasly or Stroll whilst penalising the faster drivers who on many tracks would not be able to get past 6th or 7th.

 

The very fact Croft has become obsessed with it should tell you all you need to know......

Edited by Red5ive, 06 September 2020 - 17:01.

[northanmonkee2]

it  might work on tracks like monza  but with the likely hood of trulli train races developing because of the engine mode TD ,

at most tracks it will be 

nothing short of a farce  ,

i imagine it will be like monaco when ricciardo won without a functioning ers system 

[dissident]

No.

[Anja]

Let's hope not, but it would be very on brand for F1 to introduce another artificial gimmick instead of fixing its fundamental problems. And I wouldn't even be surprised - they were already pretty fixated on this idea before and this race just might give them the final push in forcing it.

Edited by Anja, 06 September 2020 - 17:10.

[Anderis]

Nothing about reverse grid race quali but today's race reminded me the 2007-2008 era. When the pit lane is closed, a SC can spice up a race so much more as a well/badly timed pit stop can well move you 15 places up/down, not just 1-2 as with open pit lane.

 

It's kind of unfair in a way it influences race results but ultimately it leads to many more memorable races per year. In 2007-2008, races like today had a 10-20% chances of happening because SC was elevating and screwing various drivers that frequently giving us something to get excited about much more often even in seasons with a clear and uninspiring pecking order.

 

I kind of think I would like to see that again. While this has many flaws, it could be a nice cure to the current predictability of outcomes in races.

[maximilian]

To avoid having to listen to Crofty, I'd consider moving back to the USA.

 

ESPN just shows the SKY broadcast, so you'd be out of luck 

[ANF]

Funny, because in that case Gasly's win would never been rated and praised as it is now.

Very true.

[pikamoku]

F- NO (to initial question)

Edited by pikamoku, 06 September 2020 - 17:09.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

No.

[SenorSjon]

Even Indycar doesn't do that.

[Myrvold]

It will entice more F1 entries, perhaps, because more teams can score big points. It's worth researching to see the opportunities that could come from this.

 

Nope. There's other, more, let's call it money and FIA/FOM/Liberty issues than scoring big points that keeps us from having more entries.

[Leibowitz]

It would be very fake and unfair which is exactly why FIA will proceed with it.

[Goron3]

Funny, because in that case Gasly's win would never been rated and praised as it is now.

You make it sound like he overtook half the grid.

[mclarensmps]

No. The reason things were chaotic today was because it was unpredicted. The moment teams start planning for it, it is no longer unpredictable. 

[ArchieTech]

It's all too easy for them to see something like this and try to create the circumstances everywhere all the time.

 

I'd propose a compromise: have a mixture of formats i.e. Q1/2/3, single lap, one hour, and reverse championship qualifying races throughout the year - and don't tell the teams which one it will be until shortly before the session.

[Shambolic]

Please don't.

Genius Crofty was already lobbying for this as the race was going on. Please lock him in a room until he forgets about it.

Five words too many at the end there.

[Risil]

Please let's not. But I wouldn't mind a race outside the championship where some wacky formats are tried out, TOCA Shootout style.

[ExEd]

When you create unpredictable, it quickly becomes predictable.

 

QFT 

 

The knee jerk reactions are ridiculous.0 thinking what so ever. 

Teams and drivers will adapt asap. Then its going to be more of the same.

Why would anyone would adapt their strategy or eat up tires , engine or even risk a mistake to defend against a Mercedes coming through like a rocket ? its going to pass 

next DRS anyway. 

[masa90]

I sure hope not. That would be horrible and push the sport even further into the downward slope it is on.

[TomNokoe]

No, we just need different cars fighting at the front.

Outside of Hamilton, P2-P3 were very very tight today. Nothing to do with reverse grids.

[Afterburner]

I’m not sure it would help things very much. Outside of Raikkonen sinking like a stone and Hamilton passing everyone left right and center even while on the limiter, the action at the front was stagnant until the last laps.

The problems are that the strategy is one dimensional and the only way we get wheel-to-wheel action is when one car comes zooming up out of nowhere because of DRS. Midfield teams or front runners, there is too much emphasis on not taking risks and too little ability for the cars to get close to one another.

The result was awesome, but I want a race!

[HeadFirst]

ESPN just shows the SKY broadcast, so you'd be out of luck 

 

Really??? I forgot about the move to ESPN, that was about the time I moved to Canada. Well .... if not having an American driver in F1 hasn't killed the sport in the USA, having to listen to Crofty surely will. 

[Timantti]

Reverse grid is stupid. Stop trying to make it happen, it's not going to happen.

[Atreiu]

I have a feeling this reverse grid Q is inevitable.

[r4mses]

Regarding the topic's question: hell no.

[pacificquay]

They kept banging on about this reverse grid nonsense somewhat missing the point that Sainz started third on the grid and was running second prior to any of the unusualness 

[absinthedude]

No

[absinthedude]

They kept banging on about this reverse grid nonsense somewhat missing the point that Sainz started third on the grid and was running second prior to any of the unusualness 

 

You and I both noticed that. All that really happened was LewHam got a penalty (justified), Bottas started poorly and wasn't able to make progress up the field...and Max also started poorly and had PU issues. A smidgen of attrition and a couple of mistakes. Sainz was fast all weekend, as was Gasly...and Stroll is usually thereabouts in 2020. 

 

A reverse grid race to decide "qualifying" would not have given us this grand prix. 

[FLB]

I have a feeling this reverse grid Q is inevitable.

 

Some kind of overly-complicated BoP before reverse-grid.

[Heyli]

I think today just proved why reverse grid is not a good idea. It's too big of an advantage.

 

It's great when it happens like this, dont get me wrong. But it should be caused by race events.

[apoka]

Get the season over by 4/5 mark then use the remaining races for experiments as the titles done. 

 

+1 for trying out some ideas in non-championship or otherwise experimental races.

[moreland]

No. Just no. Sure, boring races are bad, but nothing like as bad as races where there is indifference towards the outcome. I think that will be the consequence of reverse grids, drivers winning the race and the reaction being 'yeah, but that wasn't a proper win, was it?'. To be honest, that's how I feel about today's race and I find all the positive vibes about today's race and outcome rather jarring. And I don't think we need to 'just give reverse grids a try, see what it's like', you don't need to see any reverse grid races unfold to understand that a win is contrived rather than legitimate.

[Ivanhoe]

Bottas would really struggle with a reverse grid.

[Calum]

They kept banging on about this reverse grid nonsense somewhat missing the point that Sainz started third on the grid and was running second prior to any of the unusualness 

 

Think that's a fair observation. Croft really was pushing the reverse grid though.

 

 

I don't know if it comes across as a really popular idea when you go off of these kind of forums and into the minds of those who make up the majority of F1 viewers.

[Hellenic tifosi]

Maybe F1 could experiment with different formats at different venues. For example, keep the standard format for 65-70% of the races and carefully choose some circuits in which a "qualifying race" in reverse championship order would make sense.

[F1 Mike]

Please no

[JimmyClark]

Wont happen.

As today showed - It would gift wins to a driver like Gasly or Stroll whilst penalising the faster drivers who on many tracks would not be able to get past 6th or 7th.

The very fact Croft has become obsessed with it should tell you all you need to know......

Winning a reverse race with 53+20 laps is very different from 23 laps today. Over both sessions the cream will always rise to the top. The winner of the reverse race qualifying would not be a grand prix winner, but a pole sitter.

Had the race result today been the grid, Hamilton would likely have won still (especially as the car would have been set up for racing and not running at the front conservatively).

So I'm not wholly against it.

Maybe they could do 10 reverse grid qualifying sessions a season, with the tracks selected being the ones with the most average overtakes for the last 3 years. So that will mean no Monaco or Singapore farces (and obviously the first race would be normal too, but that's no problem if its Melbourne).

[beachdrifter]

Monza 2020 throws up one of the most unpredictable race wins in the last decade. It essentially had a 'reverse grid' with the red flag.

 

I thought it was just random and meaningless. And everything but exciting. Couldn't wait for it to be over. First race this season I didn't enjoy.

 

If the 10th fastest guy wins the race, it just renders the sport meaningless. 

[THEWALL]

Mercedes already said no. They need agreement by all the teams. Not sure if that changes next year.

If F1 can’t or won’t produce better racing naturally, and until they do, these artificial measures are all that’s left for desperate fans.

[William Hunt]

When you create unpredictable, it quickly becomes predictable.

 

What's predictable is people who are too conservative to embrace or try a change.
You're just saying what they call in Dutch a 'dooddoener' which means using a cliché argument that in se says nothing but with the goal to kill any debate. It's a cheap way to stop a discussion.

 

The cliché you used is also untrue since many unpredictable measures can be taken that stay unpredictable.

My best argument is: hasn't F1 been predictable the past 10-20 years? if the answer is yes then change is clearly needed.

 

 

 

Edited by William Hunt, 07 September 2020 - 16:40.