13 replies to this topic

[danclark]

Can anyone direct me to the F2 fastest lap rules please? 

 

I thought it was a case of 'same as F1' whereby you had to meet two conditions to actually get the Championship points:

1. drive the fastest lap of the race.

2. finish in the top 10

 

However, in the Monza sprint race Shumacher seemingly got the extra 2 points despite Piquet and Tsunoda having set faster laps (according to F2 website results page).  Therefore he didn't satisfy criteria 1.  If you look at the points awarded he get 12 points, the same as Lundgaard which I assume was 10+2 for fastest lap?

 

Based on the TV graphics shown the cool down lap, Tsunoda had the outright fasted lap, although he is not listed in the above link as a classified finisher so we can't see his time.  However Piquet did finish 18th and you can see, set a faster lap than Mick.  Whichever of them had the true fastest lap, because neither finished inside the top 10 I would've expected the fastest lap points not to be awarded.

 

All I can find regarding the fastest lap F2 rules on the F2 website is here which states

 

"The top eight finishers score points (15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1), and the driver who sets the fastest lap scores two points.

Any driver who is not classified in the top ten positions at the end of the race, or didn’t start the race from his normal grid position will not be eligible for points awarded for fastest lap."

 

Based on the above, I'm quite confused as to why Schumacher got the 2 points? 

 

Given that no one else seems to be talking about this issue I'm sure I'm mistaken.  It's just odd that I don't remember the commentators ever explaining that FL points work differently in F2 (quite the opposite, they said Tsunoda wouldn't get them as outside the top 10), nor can I recall seeing a driver without the actual fastest lap (according to the published results) get the point(s) anyway.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, I'm well aware I must be wrong, but I'd appreciate a link to the relevant rule as this does impact the Championship so I want to understand it.  Also I assume there is a precedent for this situation?

Edited by danclark, 08 September 2020 - 11:49.

[Marklar]

the driver with the quickest lap in the top 10

in that sense the difference to F1 is that no one outside of the top 10 can snatch it away from everyone (i.e. no one gets the points), somebody will always get the points

Edited by Marklar, 08 September 2020 - 11:52.

[danclark]

Thanks for quick reply.  After the weekend I thought that must be the case but if so it's really badly communicated to the audience via the graphics and commentators.  A separate gripe of mine is that they never show the full championship standings after the race any more so you always have to do the maths yourself.

 

I assume the actual F2 rules are available in full somewhere, any idea where as the brief summary I linked from the F2 website reads pretty equivocally?

[Gareth]

The wording from the web site in the OP is the same wording as in the rules (see article 6.3 here)

 

I think the wording is wrong, though. It says "not eligible for fastest lap points", which ought to produce the same system as F1. It ought to say "not eligible to compete for fastest lap points" if they wanted it to work how they are working it.

 

The F1 rules are much more explicit, though, and do say "No point will be awarded if the fastest valid lap time is achieved by a driver who was classified outside the top ten positions".

[ANF]

So with 22 drivers in the field you can get the points for Fastest Lap even if the 12 drivers in P11–P22 have gone quicker? I can see the point of having these rules, but maybe they should think about calling it something else than Fastest Lap. (Or even better: scrap it.)

Edited by ANF, 08 September 2020 - 12:20.

[balage06]

the driver with the quickest lap in the top 10

in that sense the difference to F1 is that no one outside of the top 10 can snatch it away from everyone (i.e. no one gets the points), somebody will always get the points

 

Was that always the case though? If I remember correctly, it worked the same way as in F1 back in the GP2 days. If someone got the fastest lap outside the top 10, nobody got the extra points.

[danclark]

The wording from the web site in the OP is the same wording as in the rules (see article 6.3 here)

 

I think the wording is wrong, though. It says "not eligible for fastest lap points", which ought to produce the same system as F1. It ought to say "not eligible to compete for fastest lap points" if they wanted it to work how they are working it.

 

The F1 rules are much more explicit, though, and do say "No point will be awarded if the fastest valid lap time is achieved by a driver who was classified outside the top ten positions".

 

Thanks for taking the time to find and share that link.

Totally agree with your point about the wording, it's ridiculous that the rule is written so ambiguously and I can't believe that's the best they could come up with.  The fastest lap graphic needs to indicate the holder of the points as well as the outright fastest lap for F2 races as this could decide the Championship and lead to a lot of confusion.

 

I actually don't mind the rule working this way instead of the F1 version provided that more clarity is achieved, but it could lead to some crazy scenarios which is presumably why F1 kept it simpler. 

 

e.g. imagine a hypothetical scenario where it's the final round and Schumacher drives brilliantly to win the race to clinch the championship by a solitary point from Schwartzman who finishes 2nd.  ​Schumacher celebrates the title on the podium, beside a disconsolate Shwartzman who sensationally ran wide to allow Schumacher to slip through on the last lap.  Away from the cameras, Ticktum finishes 10th but to the interest of no one, has the fastest lap along with the extra 2pts.  One hour later a technical infringement is discovered in scrutineering on Ticktum's car.  As Ticktum is no longer in the top 10 he is not eligable for the fastest lap points so they get awarded to fastest top ten finisher which was... Robert Shwartzman! 

So after the Champagne has been drunk and the teams have packed up, a penalty for a minor points finisher that didn't even change the finishing positions of the Championship protagonists suddenly alters the destiny of the title - cue embarrassing scenes and finger pointing.  Rules are rules, this would be absolutely fair and above board, but to the casual fan could be misconstrued as an arbitrary and confusing injustice.

Appreciate this scenario is unlikely, but stranger things have happened in racing and it seems as though this rule hasn't been properly thought through.  If they are happy to accept such potential scenarios, then F2 at least need to work with the media to educate the fans as to how the rule works before it really matters otherwise they'll lack credibility.

Edited by danclark, 08 September 2020 - 13:46.

[f1paul]

Whilst we're here with F2 and points, I really dislike FOUR points for pole! 

 

One at most it should be and one for fastest lap.

[Marklar]

Was that always the case though? If I remember correctly, it worked the same way as in F1 back in the GP2 days. If someone got the fastest lap outside the top 10, nobody got the extra points.

Yes. I can remember it all the way back to the early GP2 years. There were multiple occasions where a driver that retired or finished outside the top 10 set the fastest lap and somebody else got the points for it.

Back then you also didnt got points for the Fastest Lap if you started from the pitlane IIRC, I'm not sure why and whether that is still the case though (I think it's not because it was quite unpopular from what I can recall)

Edited by Marklar, 08 September 2020 - 13:51.

[Gareth]

danclark - agree completely on the graphic. They need one for current holder of fastest lap, and one for current holder of fastest lap points.

 

Liked the convoluted scenario as well - agree, would be a bit of a disaster if something like that played out!

[Gareth]

Yes. I can remember it all the way back to the early GP2 years. There were multiple occasions where a driver that retired or finished outside the top 10 set the fastest lap and somebody else got the points for it.

Back then you also didnt got points for the Fastest Lap if you started from the pitlane IIRC, I'm not sure why and whether that is still the case though.

When I download the link to the regs, the tab on my browser still says GP2 2005, amusingly.

 

I suspect the rule hasn't changed, just the application of it for some reason (as I said before, I think the rule as written actually says it should work as per the F1 system).

[danclark]

Yes. I can remember it all the way back to the early GP2 years. There were multiple occasions where a driver that retired or finished outside the top 10 set the fastest lap and somebody else got the points for it.

Back then you also didnt got points for the Fastest Lap if you started from the pitlane IIRC, I'm not sure why and whether that is still the case though.

 

It still states the driver has to start from 'his normal grid position' to be eligible.  Which again seems badly worded as what is the definition of 'normal', never mind the fact that poor Tatiana Calderon was technically never eligible for a fastest lap last season due to consistently starting the race with the wrong gender!

Edited by danclark, 08 September 2020 - 14:02.

[Gareth]

Is the ban on pitlane starts to be eligible something to do with parc ferme? ie those starting from the grid have no benefit of setup changes, but those starting from the pitlane can make them - thus unfair competition for fastest lap?

[danclark]

Is the ban on pitlane starts to be eligible something to do with parc ferme? ie those starting from the grid have no benefit of setup changes, but those starting from the pitlane can make them - thus unfair competition for fastest lap?

 

That would make sense, but then why don't they specifically mention pit lane starts rather than the vague 'normal grid position'.  Given drivers still get championship points for finishing inside the top 10 after a pitlane start, why are they not also allowed to also get the fastest lap points?

 

If an F2 driver does a Kimi and accidentally starts from the wrong grid spot do they also lose their eligibility for the fastest lap because it wasn't their 'normal' one? 

 

What if a race is red flagged halfway through and for one start a driver started in the pitlane but for the other they took their normal grid position?  Would it then depend on which half of the race they set their fastest lap in or does a pit lane start rule them out of contention regardless?  

 

The more I think about this, the messier it gets.