30 replies to this topic

[FTB]

With the Mercedes being the fastest car by a mile, and with Red Bull being much faster than the rest too, there is a huge fight to be the 3rd fastest team amongst the midfield. We have had Toro Rosso winning in unusual circumstances, Mclaren and Ferrari achieving 2 podiums, Racing Point having 1 podium, and Renault coming very close to podium on some occasions too. Williams, Haas and Alfa Romeo have been backmarkers and the 3 worst cars of the season in no order, whilst Ferrari's performance has been very inconistent and they have had some races as midfielders but also some races as backmarkers.

Question 1) What midfield car has been the fastest so far this season? ( All races )

Question 2) What is the current fastest midfield car ( the last few races )

Edited by FTB, 13 September 2020 - 18:41.

[Kalmake]

Easily RP. They have the worst drivers and would still be third in points without the penalty.

[r4mses]

Why is Ferrari listed while Afla and Williams are not? 

[Mat13]

Racing Point are being let down by their drivers (as a McLaren fan, this is a good thing).

[FTB]

Why is Ferrari listed while Afla and Williams are not? 

Yeah, I probably should not have included them in the second poll at all because they have been awful since Belgium.

For the first poll, I included them because they had decent pace in Austria, Hungary, Britain and even in Spain.

[Sid04]

I think the order is... though keeps changing based on circuit.

RP
McLaren
Renault
Alfa/Ferrari
Williams
Haas

[fisssssi]

You left "Red Bull" out of the list.

[goldenboy]

Was RP, now probably Renault until McLaren get back their mojo with high DF tracks. 

 

RP's upgrade looked pretty amazing though.

[Afaf]

Racing Point has the best car of that lot but they are massively underachieving.

 

Perez started the year out with some bad luck, missing two weeks with COVID didn't help, but overall seems to be missing his mojo. Stroll is just a sub par driver no other way to put it, I don't think he is capable of getting the best out of the car. The team hasn't been on it with strategy calls as well, for instance just in yesterday's race leaving Stroll out for a number of laps allowing RIC to get an easy undercut but there have been other examples.

Edited by Afaf, 14 September 2020 - 01:24.

[goldenboy]

The best of the rest drivers championship is fun though. Do we still have a thread for that? 

 

Norris 65

Stroll 57

Riccy 53

Charles 49

Perez 44

Gas 43

Sainz 41

 

Big hit for Sainz and Ocon yesterday. 

[Jazza]

The midfield is so close that performance is going to be circuit related, nailing the setup, switching the tyres on, plus variations in driver performance from weekend to weekend (not to mention qualifying pace vs race pace!) I doubt it’s possible to come up with a list.

[Alfisti]

The ranault may well be the sleeper of this bunch but really seems to struggle at the beginning of each stint.

[krapmeister]

Renault seem to have turned a corner with the car set-up recently, though they admit they don't fully understand why it is quick at the moment - which means there is a good chance performance will be a bit up and down. Mclaren seem to have a better overall car - or at least understand it better. RP have underperformed, the car is undoubtedly quick - possibly the quickest of the midfield- but I guess getting setup data from Merc wasn't part of the deal...

[krapmeister]

The ranault may well be the sleeper of this bunch but really seems to struggle at the beginning of each stint.

Yes seems harder to get the tyres up to temp quickly but the pay-off for that is they have great tyre wear, especially in the later half of the stint - may well have paid off for RIC yesterday if not for the Stroll red flag.

[PlayboyRacer]

The best of the rest drivers championship is fun though. Do we still have a thread for that?

Norris 65
Stroll 57
Riccy 53
Charles 49
Perez 44
Gas 43
Sainz 41

Big hit for Sainz and Ocon yesterday.

Charles is making them all look a little silly tbh. Ferrari don't even belong in this poll, they're going backwards and have backmarker pace in some races.

As an example - Norris has had a good year. However if he swapped cars with Leclerc, what would the standings look like? Do we think Norris would have 3 top four finishes in the Ferrari? Making Q3 6 times from 9 attempts?

Leclerc and Ricciardo the clear standouts imo. They have 6 (LEC) and 7 (RIC) Q3 appearances respectively. Their teammates 3 (VET) and 4 (OCO). That highlights the difficulties with their own cars, compared to the generally faster and more consistent RP's and McLarens that are almost locks for Q3. Yet they're both only 16 and 12 points off Norris in the WDC.

Overall Racing Point have had the best car, of this bunch. It highlights the weakness in their driver pairing and why they've gone after Vettel.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 14 September 2020 - 04:52.

[Nobody]

You could see RIC or LEC stealing a win in the W10 at some circuits tbh must be said Macca didn't look midfield at Monza though

[Baddoer]

RP no doubt is top car, better than Red  Bull I dare to say. It's just their drivers underperforming.

[BertoC]

RP is easily the third best car and that position should be theirs to loose. With better drivers and a better team they would be close to Red Bull.

[Marklar]

RP. Stroll being Stroll and Perez being scruffy this year is masking their level.

McLaren next then, since the car appears to be more consistent. Renault and Ferrari are blowing too hot and cold, the latter even more, but could be also simply the case of Ricciardo being more consistent himself. AT is overall lagging a bit behind, but the package is more consistent.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Perez has been pretty underwhelming since he came back from corona. Before he was quite strong at Austria 1 and Austria 2.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Mclaren is amazing car.
Unfortunately there is no quality driver there ATM

Lewis would already score few wins in that car.

[Dicun]

Charles is making them all look a little silly tbh. Ferrari don't even belong in this poll, they're going backwards and have backmarker pace in some races.

As an example - Norris has had a good year. However if he swapped cars with Leclerc, what would the standings look like? Do we think Norris would have 3 top four finishes in the Ferrari? Making Q3 6 times from 9 attempts?

Leclerc and Ricciardo the clear standouts imo. They have 6 (LEC) and 7 (RIC) Q3 appearances respectively. Their teammates 3 (VET) and 4 (OCO). That highlights the difficulties with their own cars, compared to the generally faster and more consistent RP's and McLarens that are almost locks for Q3. Yet they're both only 16 and 12 points off Norris in the WDC.

Overall Racing Point have had the best car, of this bunch. It highlights the weakness in their driver pairing and why they've gone after Vettel.

 

In some races, the Ferrari was deceptively good on race pace. Also, Charles was quite fortunate with strategy on a few occasions. He is performing brilliantly, don't get me wrong. What I mean is that I don't think Lando is performing any worse than Charles and yes, I believe that in those races where Charles scored big points, Lando would have been able to perform similarly.

[Dicun]

Mclaren is amazing car.
Unfortunately there is no quality driver there ATM

Lewis would already score few wins in that car.

 

Oh dear.

[smitten]

Unfortunately there is no quality driver there ATM

Lewis would already score few wins in that car.

 

Oh dear, oh dear.

[Astandahl]

This thread already delivered.

[Calorus]

Mclaren is amazing car.
Unfortunately there is no quality driver there ATM

Lewis would already score few wins in that car.

 

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

[PlayboyRacer]

In some races, the Ferrari was deceptively good on race pace. Also, Charles was quite fortunate with strategy on a few occasions. He is performing brilliantly, don't get me wrong. What I mean is that I don't think Lando is performing any worse than Charles and yes, I believe that in those races where Charles scored big points, Lando would have been able to perform similarly.

That's a big call when Charles has one more podium, despite the far worse car. You think them swapping cars that Norris would do the same? Have more top 4 finishes?

Wherever the Ferrari has had good race pace, Vettel has been in play. Such as Hungary and Barcelona. The results Charles got in Austria and Silverstone were as much him as the car, he found a way to make it work and beat quicker cars on merit. In Austria itself he beat Norris straight up.

I'm not sure Norris is operating at the same level. Next year we'll find out more with Daniel at McLaren and Carlos at Ferrari.

[Dicun]

That's a big call when Charles has one more podium, despite the far worse car. You think them swapping cars that Norris would do the same? Have more top 4 finishes?

Wherever the Ferrari has had good race pace, Vettel has been in play. Such as Hungary and Barcelona. The results Charles got in Austria and Silverstone were as much him as the car, he found a way to make it work and beat quicker cars on merit. In Austria itself he beat Norris straight up.

I'm not sure Norris is operating at the same level. Next year we'll find out more with Daniel at McLaren and Carlos at Ferrari.

 

In Austria, Charles was able to get ahead of Lando because one of the Pink Mercs blocked Lando and he had to lift. That was the crucial moment, it had nothing to do Charles having better pace. I don't think Lando would have more top 4 finishes, no, as I think Charles have maximised his opportunities so far this year. But I believe Lando would have been able to perform similarly, meaning maximising the opportunities in similar fashion. I also believe Lando wouldn't have crashed into his teammate like Charles did during the second race.

 

But yes, we will see it unfold next year 

[Marklar]

I kinda feel that the fact that Leclerc scored two podiums is a bit blown out of proportion.

The truth is that the midfield is probably quite closely matched together, depending on track, and this also applies to Ferrari even if many are keen to talk to them down. Due to how things are at the top atm (only three top team cars) it's relatively easy to score podiums this season because it only needs one of them to have a issue, who then picks up the pieces has often more to do with fine margins like strategy rather than with how well the driver or car performed.

Edited by Marklar, 14 September 2020 - 12:32.

[FTB]

After taking into account both qualifying and race pace my list is: ( including top 4 midfield cars from the poll, so disregarding Mercedes, Red Bull, Alfa Romeo, Williams and Haas )

Austria 1:

Racing Point

Mclaren

Ferrari

Renault

 

Austria 2:

Racing Point

Mclaren

Ferrari/Renault ( We did not see the race pace of Ferrari due to the lap 1 crash )

 

Hungary:

Racing Point

Ferrari

Renault/Mclaren

 

Silverstone 1:

Renault

Mclaren/Racing Point ( No Perez, Hulkenberg not being able to race and Stroll having some mechanical issues masked the pace of RP )

Ferrari

 

Silverstone 2:

Racing Point

Ferrari

Renault

Mclaren

 

Spain:

Racing Point

Mclaren/Ferrari ( Without the engine failure Leclerc could have contended for a top 5, Ferrari was very kind on its tyres there )

Toro Rosso

 

Spa:

Renault

Mclaren

Racing Point/Toro Rosso

 

Monza:

Mclaren

Racing Point

Renault

Toro Rosso

 

Mugello:

Racing Point

Renault

Mclaren

Toro Rosso

 

 

So, Racing Point started very strong ( even as fast as/faster than Red Bull in Austria 2 and Hungary in my opinion - also, speaking about Red Bull, their pace at Monza was awful too ), but their advantage has shrinked. Despite that they are probably still the most consistent midfield car. Renault started off slow but caught up in the development battle and Mclaren has always been there since the start. Ferrari started decently but since Spa they have been nowhere and overtaken by Toro Rosso in terms of development and are battling with Alfa Romeo and Williams at the moment. Haas looks like the worst car on the grid at this phase as well. 

 

I did not include Red Bull in this poll because with the exception of Austria 2, Hungary and Italy ( at Monza they were behind Mclaren, Racing Point and similar to Renault ) they have been the second best car easily, and by big margins most of the time and were even the best car at Silverstone 2 and Mugello ( yes, I think Verstappen would have probably won it without the PU problems ) in my opinion.

 

Voted for RP at both polls, but they need to take advantage of their car.

Edited by FTB, 14 September 2020 - 12:40.

[PlayboyRacer]

Perhaps Q3 is a better example then. Certainly Ferrari aren't a lock for Q3 - you have literally 5-6 teams that are, on merit, faster than them. Sometimes more on their really shocking days when Alfa and Haas give them trouble.

Yet Leclerc has made Q3 six times. And that in itself, along with good starts, has helped him take those opportunities and make hay. When the car has truly allowed it on race day.

I'm not sure I can see Norris (or Sainz for that matter) getting that Ferrari into Q3 almost 70% of the time.