42 replies to this topic

[Fatgadget]

So! ... Carlos Sainz is a little miffed the treatment  meted out to Sergio Perez Vis-à-vis  Sebastian Vettel landing Perez's seat at Racing Point..  The same Carlos  is landing  Sebastian's  previous seat  at Ferrari. I am struggling any driver ever feeling sorry or angry nicking a drive from another driver....

https://www.autospor...ez-f1-situation

[Stephane]

SLow news day ? He already said that a week ago

[Dutchrudder]

Faux empathy? Current research suggests that true empathy doesn’t develop until your mid to late 20’s if at all. With lots of evidence to suggest that a display of faux empathy is actually a learned behaviour not a real emotional response.

[absinthedude]

Why should we doubt him? Perhaps Sainz is able to imagine himself in Perez' position? That's the beginning of empathy.

 

As an empath who's been super-empathetic since my teens I call bullshit on the "current research". But yes, the quality does develop in different people to different degrees....from the narcissists who don't even accept that other people have feelings to us empaths who pretty much *feel* the feelings of others. 

[PlatenGlass]

Haha. Scraping the barrel for thread topics here.

In b4 the lock.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 19 September 2020 - 07:37.

[FirstnameLastname]

Was Russell not talking to the press the other week about how good Albon is and that Williams are failing him?

It’s a very ‘buddy’ grid at the moment.... not as cutthroat as the days of old where it was ‘every man for himself’

[Clatter]

Maybe he is hopeing that by saying some nice words, Perez will allow him an easier overtake, should the situation arise😉.
Would have thought Sainz had been around long enough now to realise that it is a cut throat business.

Edited by Clatter, 19 September 2020 - 08:11.

[PayasYouRace]

Was Russell not talking to the press the other week about how good Albon is and that Williams are failing him?

It’s a very ‘buddy’ grid at the moment.... not as cutthroat as the days of old where it was ‘every man for himself’

 

The days of old:

 

[FirstnameLastname]

Well that’s me told!

Maybe they had a mass brawl afterwards!

[MattK9]

Maybe Sainz rates Perez higher than Vettel. Vettel's performances this year are not good. Maybe Stroll (senior) thinks that Vettel is past it and his son will beat the 4 time WDC.

Maybe Sainz expects loyalty from multi-million pound companies which is slightly naive.

[Clatter]

Maybe Sainz rates Perez higher than Vettel. Vettel's performances this year are not good. Maybe Stroll (senior) thinks that Vettel is past it and his son will beat the 4 time WDC.

Maybe Sainz expects loyalty from multi-million pound companies which is slightly naive.

 

Has Sainz shown any particular loyalty to the teams he has been at?

[PayasYouRace]

Well that’s me told!

Maybe they had a mass brawl afterwards!

In fairness I get where you’re coming from, because the trend started in the 80s for drivers to socialise less and there were some very bitter rivalries started at the time. The camaraderie of the earlier days appeared to have been lost somewhat. But it’s encouraging that in a much more connected world nowadays that the drivers appear to form genuine friendships.

[FirstnameLastname]

In fairness I get where you’re coming from, because the trend started in the 80s for drivers to socialise less and there were some very bitter rivalries started at the time. The camaraderie of the earlier days appeared to have been lost somewhat. But it’s encouraging that in a much more connected world nowadays that the drivers appear to form genuine friendships.

There’s only 20 of them in the world who are having the same/similar experiences, travelling the world together... I find it strange that you wouldn’t want to make a few chums along the way

[Jazza]

In fairness I get where you’re coming from, because the trend started in the 80s for drivers to socialise less and there were some very bitter rivalries started at the time. The camaraderie of the earlier days appeared to have been lost somewhat. But it’s encouraging that in a much more connected world nowadays that the drivers appear to form genuine friendships.

Yes, I’ve been thinking about this in the last couple of years watching the ways today’s drivers not only treat each other, but how they deal with the media.

I think many of the drivers back in the ‘good old days’ were fairly normal people that lived fairly normal lives before getting in a Formula One car. Many of them were rich, but they had gone to school, University, and even held normal jobs. Towards the end of the 20th century the professional career formula one driver arose. These were drivers that from a young age were separated from friends and family and were taught to see everyone as a competitor getting in their way of making it to the top spot. They never had a normal school life or childhood and came across as arrogant and excessively whiny. I think with social media and access to Smart phones with Skype\messenger type programs, many of today’s driver seem to be far more normal and human. They have been able to maintain normal relationships whilst traveling around the world, and see life beyond their own self focused and narrow view.

The rookies of the last several years seem to be just so different to many of the drivers 20 years ago and it’s a refreshing change.

[Rodaknee]

Yes, I’ve been thinking about this in the last couple of years watching the ways today’s drivers not only treat each other, but how they deal with the media.

I think many of the drivers back in the ‘good old days’ were fairly normal people that lived fairly normal lives before getting in a Formula One car. Many of them were rich, but they had gone to school, University, and even held normal jobs. Towards the end of the 20th century the professional career formula one driver arose. These were drivers that from a young age were separated from friends and family and were taught to see everyone as a competitor getting in their way of making it to the top spot. They never had a normal school life or childhood and came across as arrogant and excessively whiny. I think with social media and access to Smart phones with Skype\messenger type programs, many of today’s driver seem to be far more normal and human. They have been able to maintain normal relationships whilst traveling around the world, and see life beyond their own self focused and narrow view.

The rookies of the last several years seem to be just so different to many of the drivers 20 years ago and it’s a refreshing change.

 

Alternatively, since the 2000's Joe Public has had access to social media, which gives them the ability to whine about every aspect of a driver's personal life, mostly out of jealousy.  Drivers now have to be extremely careful about what they say or do for 'fear' of being on the end of some 'anti' campaign by armchair experts, who've sod all better to do than attempt to make themselves 'famous' on Twitter.

 

I can only imagine the explosion on Twitter if Sainz had said he didn't give a ff about Perez losing his seat.

 

[Jazza]

Alternatively, since the 2000's Joe Public has had access to social media, which gives them the ability to whine about every aspect of a driver's personal life, mostly out of jealousy. Drivers now have to be extremely careful about what they say or do for 'fear' of being on the end of some 'anti' campaign by armchair experts, who've sod all better to do than attempt to make themselves 'famous' on Twitter.

I can only imagine the explosion on Twitter if Sainz had said he didn't give a ff about Perez losing his seat.

True. They have been trained well to say and do what people expect of them.

We won’t really know what today’s driver are truly like until a mechanic tells us the behind scenes truth in about 10-15 years.

[BRG]

Sainz and Perez are currently the only Spanish-speaking drivers.  It is basic human nature that they would have some sort of a bond.  None of this is about empathy, whether faux or real.

[PayasYouRace]

Ok guys. Let’s not escalate this misunderstanding.

[kosmos]

Perez losing the seat is BS, not sure why anyone that sympathize with him can be labeled as faux.

[jjcale]

So! ... Carlos Sainz is a little miffed the treatment  meted out to Sergio Perez Vis-à-vis  Sebastian Vettel landing Perez's seat at Racing Point..  The same Carlos  is landing  Sebastian's  previous seat  at Ferrari. I am struggling any driver ever feeling sorry or angry nicking a drive from another driver....

https://www.autospor...ez-f1-situation

 

Bro - I know you understand the difference .... but for the benefit of others:  SV's contract was not renewed .... SP's contract was terminated early. 

 

c'mon that's a big difference. 

[pitlanepalpatine]

I don't think Carlos said he was miffed about Vettel ousting Perez as much as Stroll not even being up for consideration which heavily underlines the fact that sometimes your career isn't even remotely within your control, which is something Carlos can definitely empathise with considering his current F1 career. That's not false empathy.

[Dicun]

In fairness I get where you’re coming from, because the trend started in the 80s for drivers to socialise less and there were some very bitter rivalries started at the time. The camaraderie of the earlier days appeared to have been lost somewhat. But it’s encouraging that in a much more connected world nowadays that the drivers appear to form genuine friendships.

 

 

There’s only 20 of them in the world who are having the same/similar experiences, travelling the world together... I find it strange that you wouldn’t want to make a few chums along the way

 

It's a tricky one. On the one hand, yes, they are a very selected group of people, so they understand each other very well. In a way, they probably understand each other's lives much more than any family members/civilian friends they have. On the other hand, in such a highly competitive environment where fractions of seconds could determine finishing places hence millions of dollars, it is very challenging to form any meaningful bonds. Take Nadal and Federer, for example. They have a great relationship based on mutual respect and sympathy. They appear at each other's charity events; they do exhibition matches, adverts etc. together—something they don't really do with Djokovic or Murray. Still, Rafa said they were not friends because, for him, friendship is a much deeper, much closer relationship. Roger and Rafa get along really well and like each other as much as they can while being at the sharp end of one of the world's most popular sports, but that's about it. A competitive tennis player told me that even this type of bond that Rafa and Roger had was incomprehensible for him since in an individual sport you have to have a "killer instinct" against the other guy while on the court and for most people that's a very challenging thing to do if you happen to like the guy at the other side of the net.

 

I guess it all boils down to personal definitions of friendship. I have a lot of buddies and acquaintances but only a handful of friends but whom I trust my life.

[piszkosfred]

In fairness I get where you’re coming from, because the trend started in the 80s for drivers to socialise less and there were some very bitter rivalries started at the time. The camaraderie of the earlier days appeared to have been lost somewhat. But it’s encouraging that in a much more connected world nowadays that the drivers appear to form genuine friendships.

I don't think rivalries are the big problem. Schumacher and Villeneuve partied together after the Jerez race. Schumi wore a yelow wig, Jacques a "Michael Schumacher 1997 World Champion" tshirt, it was a big fun. When the big factories entered and bought the teams, that's when the fun stopped.

[Fatgadget]

Bro - I know you understand the difference .... but for the benefit of others:  SV's contract was not renewed .... SP's contract was terminated early. 

 

c'mon that's a big difference. 

Bruv! - I give you the same difference the late great Aryton Senna when he offered to drive the then all conquering Williams FW 14 for nish...Did he have any empathy for whom he would have effectively nicked that drive from?
 

[hogstar]

It's just that Carlos rates Perez better than Vettel - who I wouldn't give a contract to drive an ice cream van right now. 

[OvDrone]

Faux empathy among forum members is a more serious problem.

I really value Atreiu's contributions, comments and content but his love for Marc Marquez really rubs me the wrong way.

 

 

[1Devil1]

Bro - I know you understand the difference .... but for the benefit of others:  SV's contract was not renewed .... SP's contract was terminated early. 

 

c'mon that's a big difference. 

 

Perez had an option to terminated his contract. Vettel was told you are our number one option, just to get a call out of nowhere that he is gone for next season. Both brutal decision. I don't see the big difference because Perez knew somebody could use this option as Vettel knew Ferrari could decide otherwise - give him not a new contract. Both believed this would not happen and got screwed by the team.  

[Fatgadget]

Sainz and Perez are currently the only Spanish-speaking drivers.  It is basic human nature that they would have some sort of a bond.  None of this is about empathy, whether faux or real.

It's about nationality is it? How come Jackie Stewart had that..dare I say the word empathy with that eh foreign driver whose name escapes me?

[jjcale]

Bruv! - I give you the same difference the late great Aryton Senna when he offered to drive the then all conquering Williams FW 14 for nish...Did he have any empathy for whom he would have effectively nicked that drive from?
 

 

That's different - Mansell and Prost never had to help save the Williams team from going under ... only to be shown the door by the new owner.

[jjcale]

Perez had an option to terminated his contract. Vettel was told you are our number one option, just to get a call out of nowhere that he is gone for next season. Both brutal decision. I don't see the big difference because Perez knew somebody could use this option as Vettel knew Ferrari could decide otherwise - give him not a new contract. Both believed this would not happen and got screwed by the team.  

 

I cant see how it is possible that SP's advisers are so sharp that they knew the right manoeuvres to put the team into admin and then take it out so as to flush Vijay whilst saving the team ... but they cant figure out that his contract has an option and so he was taken by surprise???  .... nah not buying it.

 

Also, has it not been reported that he was paid serious compensation? .... if so, how does that work with the option?? Was it an option to pay him off?? if so, what is the difference between that and just terminating and paying compensation?? ... it sounds like far from being taken by surprise, SP has been anticipating being booted out for at least 2 years now - and made sure to cover himself. 

 

I think the whole presentation of what happened has been for media and fan consumption - as reportedly him/his backers got a nice chunk of change out of the deal .... but yeah I still feel sorry for him.   

[Clatter]

I cant see how it is possible that SP's advisers are so sharp that they knew the right manoeuvres to put the team into admin and then take it out so as to flush Vijay whilst saving the team ... but they cant figure out that his contract has an option and so he was taken by surprise???  .... nah not buying it.

 

Also, has it not been reported that he was paid serious compensation? .... if so, how does that work with the option?? Was it an option to pay him off?? if so, what is the difference between that and just terminating and paying compensation?? ... it sounds like far from being taken by surprise, SP has been anticipating being booted out for at least 2 years now - and made sure to cover himself. 

 

I think the whole presentation of what happened has been for media and fan consumption - as reportedly him/his backers got a nice chunk of change out of the deal .... but yeah I still feel sorry for him.   

 

I would have thought just terminating the contract would be a breach of contract that could possibly be challenged in the courts, both messy and expensive. If there is a clause allowing termination, that same clause probably lays out the terms and the compensation.

[Fatgadget]

I would have thought just terminating the contract would be a breach of contract that could possibly be challenged in the courts, both messy and expensive. If there is a clause allowing termination, that same clause probably lays out the terms and the compensation.

Are you serious? Jenson Button says hold my beer while I show you how to wangle out of a water tight contract!

Edited by Fatgadget, 19 September 2020 - 20:51.

[Clatter]

Are you serious? Jenson Button says hold my beer while I show you how to wangle out of a water tight contract!

 

As I remember it cost quite a lot to get out of that contract.

[HeadFirst]

Perez losing the seat is BS, not sure why anyone that sympathize with him can be labeled as faux.

 

Not BS, it's BuSiness. Depending on how you view F1, it was a poor decision, the correct decision, or the only possible decision.

[BRG]

It's about nationality is it? How come Jackie Stewart had that..dare I say the word empathy with that eh foreign driver whose name escapes me?

Er, no, it isn't about nationality because Sainz is Spanish and Perez is Mexican.  They are different countries, on different continents. Maybe you hadn't noticed that?

 

But they have a common language in Castelleano in amongst a bunch of people from all over who largely communicate in English as a working language.  it is perfectly natural to feel more comfortable talking to someone in your mother tongue.

 

As for Stewart and Cevert, they were team-mates in a very small team with a strong family atmosphere. Stewart saw Cevert as his little brother who would carry on after him.  Sadly that didn't happen.

[YoungGun]

There was a time when F1 drivers were hailed for being real risking taking men, now some buy into crocodile tears.

[warp]

Er, no, it isn't about nationality because Sainz is Spanish and Perez is Mexican.  They are different countries, on different continents. Maybe you hadn't noticed that?

 

But they have a common language in Castelleano in amongst a bunch of people from all over who largely communicate in English as a working language.  it is perfectly natural to feel more comfortable talking to someone in your mother tongue.

 

 

 

This... not always like that, but in most cases this is true. There's also a large cultural affinity from the fact that Mexican culture has a strong influence from Spanish one. Sort of like Brits and Aussies or (insert Commonwealth country name here) would.

 

 

But then, there's personal affinity... there are people that speaks my language that I would never feel related to and people who don't speak my language that I really like to hang out with.

[DoodoolTalla]

Apples and Oranges...

 

As already mentioned Vettel's contract ran out but Perez basically got kicked out more or less because he's not Stroll Sr's son.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Why should we doubt him? Perhaps Sainz is able to imagine himself in Perez' position? That's the beginning of empathy.

As an empath who's been super-empathetic since my teens I call bullshit on the "current research". But yes, the quality does develop in different people to different degrees....from the narcissists who don't even accept that other people have feelings to us empaths who pretty much *feel* the feelings of others.

You can feel other peoples emotions! Wow

I cannot even recognize other peoples emotions

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

True. They have been trained well to say and do what people expect of them.

We won’t really know what today’s driver are truly like until a mechanic tells us the behind scenes truth in about 10-15 years.

Horrors of modern world run by money and PR

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Bruv! - I give you the same difference the late great Aryton Senna when he offered to drive the then all conquering Williams FW 14 for nish...Did he have any empathy for whom he would have effectively nicked that drive from?

Did he have any empathy at all?

He cared only about himself. Perhaps he was only actually aware only of himself.

Suzuka 1990 is a disgrace beyond all disgraces there ever was.

Edited by BiggestBuddyLazierFan, 21 September 2020 - 14:20.

[Fastonslicks]

It's just that Carlos rates Perez better than Vettel - who I wouldn't give a contract to drive an ice cream van right now. 

Perez had more spins than vettel all over his carrer that include this season. Given the same car vettel would beat him every wek end

[4444]

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