1486 replies to this topic

[CHIUNDA]

https://twitter.com/...250385320353796

Thanks

"This decision is based on the fact that the team said he could do the start elsewhere. Mercedes have been fined €25,000"

Edited by CHIUNDA, 27 September 2020 - 16:23.

[vlado]

Bottas doesn't really help himself with stuff like this, why not just say it was a solid race but more work is still needed or something like that.

 

Because he is delusional. 

[ANF]

Not so sure. They were side by side, but at the time of contact, Stroll was, maybe 2 tyre widths wider than Perez and the rest of the drivers ahead, while Leclerc was much further to the inside than those ahead, while at the same time, Leclerc hit the apex the same way as Perez ahead. He went a lot tighter on the exit than others hitting the apex at the same place.
If Stroll had gone, 1/4 car width wider, it's likely there wouldn't been contact, and yet Stroll would've been far from having his inner tyres on the outer curb.
So Leclerc could've gone tighter, Stroll could've gone wider.
 
My personal view doesn't align with the official view when it comes to track limits. But going off the rules on "leaving a cars width" or "leaving space" or "crowding off the track" and looking at the way the FIA "enforces" track limits, Stroll had more room on his left, that still counts as "on track".

ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEAVE A SPACE

[Myrvold]

ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEAVE A SPACE

 

Haha! Indeed.

Then it all comes down to, what are the track limits, and, is forcing a driver to exceed track limits with 2 wheels forcing a driver off when a driver is not judged to have left the track when 2 wheels are off and 2 wheels are on.

In my mind the track limits are the white lines, and if you force another driver to have 2 wheels over, you have forced a driver off the track.

[ANF]

Haha! Indeed.
Then it all comes down to, what are the track limits, and, is forcing a driver to exceed track limits with 2 wheels forcing a driver off when a driver is not judged to have left the track when 2 wheels are off and 2 wheels are on.
In my mind the track limits are the white lines, and if you force another driver to have 2 wheels over, you have forced a driver off the track.

Hmmmmm. Good question.
But the one-car-width rule says one car width between your car and the white line, right?

[Myrvold]

Hmmmmm. Good question.
But the one-car-width rule says one car width between your car and the white line, right?

 

That's only on the straights though. But yes.

Edited by Myrvold, 27 September 2020 - 16:40.

[djparky]

Has there ever been an exciting Russian GP? After a promising start this has turned into a really dull race.

No...F2 and F3 are usually good but not F1

[Baddoer]

Verstappen voted DOTD is complete BS to me.

Perez and Leclerc are two real standouts of the race. While obviously they were helped by Vettel holding up Renault's, former finished EIGHT seconds behind Hamilton and latter driving a red brick not being troubled by Ocon by any means.

[Jordan44]

Verstappen voted DOTD is complete BS to me.
Perez and Leclerc are two real standouts of the race. While obviously they were helped by Vettel holding up Renault's, former finished EIGHT seconds behind Hamilton and latter driving a red brick not being troubled by Ocon by any means.

DOTD is complete BS period. Popularity contest that really adds nothing to the event.

[SenorSjon]

Verstappen voted DOTD is complete BS to me.
Perez and Leclerc are two real standouts of the race. While obviously they were helped by Vettel holding up Renault's, former finished EIGHT seconds behind Hamilton and latter driving a red brick not being troubled by Ocon by any means.

Ocon faded a lot. What happened? He was 5-6s in front of Ric on fresher tires after the stop and was 20 odd seconds behind in the second stint.

[garoidb]

A reprimand or 1 point on the licence were lesser options that could have been applied.

Indeed as you point out, a pardon was a possibility - nothing wrong with that considering the many "no farther actions" today from the stewards.

 

I wasn't really considering the points on the licence in my answer, just the time penalties. As we know, the points are not now being applied. Taking no action when the offence has definitely been committed is not really an option. "No further action" usually relates to racing incidents where either the stewards feel the incident was a natural consequence of racing, or can't allocate blame easily to one or both drivers. Just letting drivers who have committed an offence off with no punishment for altruistic reasons makes no sense. As I mentioned previously, I think the idea that he asked his team could be a mitigation is ludicrous. I don't mind one way or the other about the points on the licence but a driver has to take some miniscule level of responsibility for what he decides to do on the track.  

[messy]

I thought the whole thing was mainly pretty bland this weekend, as it tends to be at this wretched concrete jungle of a circuit. I found Bottas’ redemptive, two fingers up at his critics victory pretty hollow because Hamilton clearly would have beaten him but for the penalties. How is that a “**** off” to his critics? Number two driver is there to pick up the pieces in by far the best car when his team-mate has problems, it’s the least you’d expect really, isn’t it? It’s very similar for me to when everyone (read: Sky) was going on about what a feelgood story it was for Alex Albon to get a podium the other week. Really? A single third place in a car his team-mate has already won in? I struggle to see the big deal, really. Competence in a sport that deals in brilliance isn’t really exciting me, sorry.

I like Renault’s upturn though, that IS a good story. I’m really sad that Ricciardo is leaving just as it begins to come good. That car isn’t half as far off being second, third best as it was last year - still just as far adrift of Merc sure, but a real boost for them with 2021, a new identity and Alonso on the horizon. Ricciardo destroying Ocon so clearly in the races doesn’t surprise me because I don’t think Ocon has EVER been much cop on race pace has he? He used to outqualify Perez consistently in 2018, and just as consistently finish behind him the following day. The reason they came to blows so much was because Perez always used to find himself coming up behind him in the race. Danny is a class act and it’s a shame we won’t get to see him up against Fernando next season because those two I could see really combining to push Alpine up the field.

Kvyat had a good race too, but unless it translates into a storming end to the season, it doesn’t mean a great deal. Vettel, I honestly can’t believe how badly this season is going for him.

[SophieB]

I thought the whole thing was mainly pretty bland this weekend, as it tends to be at this wretched concrete jungle of a circuit. I found Bottas’ redemptive, two fingers up at his critics victory pretty hollow because Hamilton clearly would have beaten him but for the penalties. How is that a “**** off” to his critics? Number two driver is there to pick up the pieces in by far the best car when his team-mate has problems, it’s the least you’d expect really, isn’t it? 
 

 

Yeah, it was pretty graceless but at least it reminded me of Father Ted’s Golden Cleric speech.

 

“...and now we turn to LIARS...”

[Tomerell]

Because he is delusional. 

 

I think Lewis was most delusional this Sunday with his tinfoil hat level comment of "they are trying to stop me" ... really!!! way to go Lewis ...

[rf90]

Compare Hamilton's cars to Ricciardo's....night and day.

LOL

[vlado]

I think Lewis was most delusional this Sunday with his tinfoil hat level comment of "they are trying to stop me" ... really!!! way to go Lewis ...

 

that's more of him thinking he is privileged and the rules don't apply to him  

[rf90]

It's amusing to see so many salty comments from Hamilton fans about Bottas having an easy win, not deserving etc.. yet in many other threads they state how Hamilton is having to fight tough team mates to win all the titles.

Edited by rf90, 27 September 2020 - 22:11.

[Tomerell]

It's amusing to see so many salty comments from Hamilton fans about Bottas having an easy win, not deserving etc.. yet in many other threads they state how Hamilton is having to fight tough team mates to break all records.

 

 

Here in this Forum we have this anti Bottas Band Wagon who deprecate him no matter what he does, as seen today after perfect race, really good race speed topped by fastest lap... "gifted win" etc are the comments...

[Anuity]

Sochi is a boring race, normally. However, i find Abu Dhabi even worse, that must be the worst one.
I would add Spain, Hungary and unfortunately Mexico as well to this list as well.
Not to mention Paul Ricard....

Some overtaking here is happening sometimes, unlike the dreadful festival of Spain and especially Abu Dhabi.

But it’s not only down to the track I think. For the last 7-8 years racing at Spa has been pretty boring as well, and that track used to be my favorite.

[ARTGP]

Verstappen voted DOTD is complete BS to me.

Perez and Leclerc are two real standouts of the race. While obviously they were helped by Vettel holding up Renault's, former finished EIGHT seconds behind Hamilton and latter driving a red brick not being troubled by Ocon by any means.

 

 

Perez did have a nice quiet run there with one of the highlight overtakes of the day. But the fact that he didn't get driver of the day pretty much is the same reason he got dropped from Aston Martin. He's not that popular outside of the Mexican audience. You might even call him anonymous outside of the Mexican GP. Does he deserve to be ignored? No. But not everyone gets what they deserve unfortunately.

Edited by ARTGP, 28 September 2020 - 01:07.

[CHIUNDA]

I wasn't really considering the points on the licence in my answer, just the time penalties. As we know, the points are not now being applied. Taking no action when the offence has definitely been committed is not really an option.

 

Mercedes and quite a number of people do not agree that an offence has definitely been committed. As Lewis pointed out in the post race interviews, that is not the first time he is doing practice starts from that position. Johnny Herbert tried to mumble a clarification with Karun but the stewards did not use their logic in making their decision so that would mean Herbert's logic was wrong. The ruling is still subject to interpretation. The only difference between where Lewis took the start and where Max took his is that it was farther ahead. There is no separating line apart from staying on the far right. Both are still on the fast part. That is why Mercedes feel the ruling is up for interpretation. One might ask, so why don't they appeal? And the answer would be that it is not worth to appeal a decision costing $25000 and where both drivers were still on the podium. That does not mean they agree with the decision nor that it is correct. It is just an administrative quirk.

 

The notes of race director Michael Masi read: "Practice starts may only be carried out on the right-hand side after the pit exit lights and, for the avoidance of doubt, this includes any time the pit exit is open for the race." Wolff believes Hamilton followed this instruction to the letter. He added: “The race director’s notes say, if I am well informed, that you must do practice starts after the lights, on the right side of the pit lane and that is what happened."

 

 

"No further action" usually relates ...

 

 

As Toto pointed out, there was nothing usual about today's decision. According to him, this was the first time an infringement on the preparatory laps was being applied in the race. Why was the decision delayed for so long as all the evidence was immediately available? And the rescinding of the penalty points after the race on the basis of the radio communication between the driver and the team is ridiculous. Are stewards trying to say they were not aware of the radio communication prior to making the earlier decision? What would that say about how they go about their business?

 

 "No further action" usually relates to racing incidents where either the stewards feel the incident was a natural consequence of racing, or can't allocate blame easily to one or both drivers. Just letting drivers who have committed an offence off with no punishment for altruistic reasons makes no sense. As I mentioned previously, I think the idea that he asked his team could be a mitigation is ludicrous. I don't mind one way or the other about the points on the licence but a driver has to take some miniscule level of responsibility for what he decides to do on the track.

 

 

First of all, I am not sure that is how the rules describe a racing incidence. Nonetheless, what you describe is not what the stewards always do. Indeed their inconsistency appears altruistically in favor of some drivers, most notably Charles Leclerc. As Stroll pointed out, and I agree with him, Leclerc should have been penalized for causing an avoidable accident. He wasn't, whereas other drivers have been penalized for less in the past. My point is that if the stewards can be altruistic (to borrow your term) to one driver, there should be nothing wrong if they take a similar approach to other drivers. In this case, they were unnecessarily harsh as evidenced by their post-race corrective actions. The fact that they rescinded part of the penalty coupled with Mika Salo's leak-gate scandal does not help the situation.

Edited by CHIUNDA, 28 September 2020 - 02:50.

[SophieB]

pRy posted this yesterday but I figured people would like the clip that includes DC's spectacular entrance (if you will forgive the turn of phrase)

Aston Martin Red Bull Racing
@redbullracing
4m

It fits 
14 years on from his Monaco podium, our very own Superman returned 
@therealdcf1
@C4F1
#F1

 

https://twitter.com/...501533998555136

[Alexis*27]

Drivers complaining about turn 2 I see. I'm all for slightly odd corners that catch drivers out. If you can't get round it and have to go down the escape road that's tough luck.

[BobbyRicky]

DOTD is complete BS period. Popularity contest that really adds nothing to the event.

 

Rio Haryanto disagrees

[Paco]

It's amusing to see so many salty comments from Hamilton fans about Bottas having an easy win, not deserving etc.. yet in many other threads they state how Hamilton is having to fight tough team mates to win all the titles.

You do get that in itself is equally bias.

It’s was Bottas ridiculous statement after having done the bare minimum expected of him and just gifting into the win from 3rd... he kept it clean, good on him, waited for Lewis to pit and rode the car home...he did nothing to merit for that outburst...it was just such poor class from a bad weekend up until he cross the finish line.

Wow... he was able to win a race from clear air after Hamilton had to stop... which the whole world knew was going to be case in around that lap. Wowowowowowow. Take the win, sure. But to say what he said and the manner in which he said on the weekend he had. NO.

The last time he did ie bottas 2.0. Ok ok. After sponsor insulted him, dropped him and he nail the 1st race and show boated finish while Lewis just save his engine for another day. Ok. Fine.

This time. Not by a long shot. The man is an idiot.

Edited by Paco, 28 September 2020 - 13:04.

[robefc]

Drivers complaining about turn 2 I see. I'm all for slightly odd corners that catch drivers out. If you can't get round it and have to go down the escape road that's tough luck.

It’s the fact you’re much better off bailing early (or not attempting it at all) that’s the problem.

[Lennat]

Drivers complaining about turn 2 I see. I'm all for slightly odd corners that catch drivers out. If you can't get round it and have to go down the escape road that's tough luck.

 

+1

 

I quite like it. Much better than a typical Tilkedrome parking lot. 

[Sash1]

They should fill that corner with kitty litter.

[Zoe]

Wow... he was able to win a race from clear air after Hamilton had to stop... which the whole world knew was going to be case in around that lap. Wowowowowowow. Take the win, sure. But to say what he said and the manner in which he said on the weekend he had. NO.

 

It seems to me that we always hear this tune when a Mercedes car wins. "Oooohh, I had to fight so hard today, unbelievable, one of my best drives ever"

[ThadGreen]

I enjoyed the race, the mid pack and tail enders once again made it interesting with dices and overtakes.

 

I was disappointed with VB's in car comments once he crossed the finishing line, I have always felt he was better than that.

[WonderboyF1]

Terrible race, was so disappointed when this track was included in the calendar probably over hockenheim 

[djparky]

About the same as normal really, street tracks are more about location than much else- St Pete may not be the best track in the world but the location is fantastic

[Ramon69]

I have to say I completely missed this one, I watched it around lap 42 or so and I was surprised to see the classification haha, but then I saw HAM got penalised, which explained BOT being P1. 

 

I thought about watching it, but reading this thread made me reAlize that I haven't missed much as it was a boring race. Better rewatch Mugello instead! 

[ExFlagMan]

They should fill that corner with kitty litter.

 

I guess you must be addicted to watching the SC circulating, given the no of drivers who utilised that area of run-off

[Risil]

I was disappointed with VB's in car comments once he crossed the finishing line, I have always felt he was better than that.

Me too! He needs to stop lurking here.

[ANF]

I'm amazed there wasn't a big crash before Turn 2. Watch Stroll making it four wide at 7:48. Then watch it from Sainz's perspective at 11:03. There was even contact between the two McLarens!

[MikeTekRacing]

I'm amazed there wasn't a big crash before Turn 2. Watch Stroll making it four wide at 7:48. Then watch it from Sainz's perspective at 11:03. There was even contact between the two McLarens!
 

Sainz was so poor in there.