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Honda to leave F1 at the end of 2021


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#851 noikeee

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 17:46

Who cares what Honda thinks... all of a sudden now F1 needs to look at full ev. Madness when the other 3 are still in.

Honda has shown over decades of their fickleness. I’m out in out.

They went about this because they are not good enough. Cowards not willing to keep up the fight to topple Mercedes.
They are out because they lost over a billion dollars due to Corona and lack lustre car manufacturer. Zero interesting cars in the retail market place. They are just as complacent in their road cars and living off of former success.
They are out cause it’s their normal play book, get frustrated when they almost there but frankly never good enough.

Nothing new here... just Honda being Honda not unlike when they painted their car the earth colours.

No reason to even think F1 should go full EV. Go bigger on the ICE, throw that turbo in the garbage and decrease battery pack size to make cars smaller and lighter.


The problem isn't (just) that Honda is leaving. It's that nobody else is coming in and the current engines are super expensive and a major performance differentiator.

I agree that going full EV is a bad idea though. Formula E got there first. There's no reason to want F1 to be a copy of FE with more money and more star names on it. For now the cars would likely be slow, too.

A better idea is to take what we already have and make it cheaper, more equalised, with a smaller barrier to entry.

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#852 boomn

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 17:55

But they are staying with the less electric engines at Indy.

I'd say them leaving has mostly to do with cost and odds of winning in F1.

The statements from Honda about the next Indycar engine all mention being excited about the transition towards an electrified future. I don't think they even mention the word hybrid!

As.to staying in Indycar, it has already been stated that the situation and the expenses are very different. HPD produces the engines, and reportedly at a profit. HPD is a division of American Honda which is a subsidiary of Honda, and therefore has a bit more independence to fit the regional market. Same for their IMSA DPi program. And they do use these programs for marketing in the US. Hearing James Hinchcliffe on a radio ad for Honda was a fun surprise!

#853 mclarensmps

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:04

Lol, Electric just shifts our problem to mining and power generation. As bad, if not worse than Fossil fuels. We don't see it yet because  3bn people don't have electric cars yet. 



#854 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:04

Maybe, but its the best we have right now. We have to move to a zero emission society, that can never happen when you have petrol or diesel powered cars emitting carbon


Talk to me about petrol cars being the problem only after every single coal and/or gas power plant in the world is shut down.

#855 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:16

Maybe, but its the best we have right now. We have to move to a zero emission society, that can never happen when you have petrol or diesel powered cars emitting carbon

But then again, you'd have to produce electricity without emissions.



#856 Clatter

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:23

The statements from Honda about the next Indycar engine all mention being excited about the transition towards an electrified future. I don't think they even mention the word hybrid!

As.to staying in Indycar, it has already been stated that the situation and the expenses are very different. HPD produces the engines, and reportedly at a profit. HPD is a division of American Honda which is a subsidiary of Honda, and therefore has a bit more independence to fit the regional market. Same for their IMSA DPi program. And they do use these programs for marketing in the US. Hearing James Hinchcliffe on a radio ad for Honda was a fun surprise!

 


Isn't the next indy engine a hybrid though?

#857 boomn

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:26


Isn't the next indy engine a hybrid though?

Yes, exactly! It is very interesting that their comments are all about electrification. They could just mean electrified ICUs aka hybrids, but it sounds like they are seeing this as a temporary stepping stone towards fully electrified cars

#858 absinthedude

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:44

What do you mean ? 

 

I am saying electric cars are great if you exclude the current battery tech. If we get something better and more efficient in terms of storage, the whole concept becomes a much better proposition than it is currently. 

 

We've been saying that for approximately eleven decades.

 

Sure, things have got better but still not good enough. 

 

If Honda are continuing in Indycar, it's likely they consider it a better way to get exposure for the bucks spent. 

 

It's very easy to say "Oh all we need is a better and more efficient storage tech"....that's a holy grail the car companies have been trying to develop for almost as long as they've existed. 



#859 Clatter

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:54

Yes, exactly! It is very interesting that their comments are all about electrification. They could just mean electrified ICUs aka hybrids, but it sounds like they are seeing this as a temporary stepping stone towards fully electrified cars

 


I can see it in regards to their road car division, but I can't imagine Indy transitioning to full electric any quicker than F1 would.

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#860 absinthedude

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 18:59

Completely agree. People, politicians, self professed greenies.... all see intermittent renewables as the cavalry riding over the hill to save us. They're wrong. It's not. It always needs backup. It can never, alone, power a post-industrial economy.

 

Carbon derived energy is killing the planet. There is a solution, but alas, in the country I live in, Australia, where our per capita CO2 emissions are four times that of, for example, France, it is illegal.

 

The problem with nuclear power is that people who ought to know better because they were all taught it at school, don't understand it.....many people read the word "nuclear" and get scared. Do people realise that fewer people have died as a result of nuclear power accidents than have been killed by renewable energy? Do people understand that nuclear power is *very* low emission, potentially almost zero, and the land needed is far less than any renewable source? It's also reliable in that it does not require wind, or sun or tidal motion....it's there 24/7.Though I am hopeful for offshore wind power, where the windmill turbines don't take up land, kill fewer birds and don't freak out cattle rendering fields useless for cattle farming. 

 

The word "nuclear" is so scary to people that "nuclear magnetic resonance" was changed to "magnetic resonance imaging" (as in the hospital scans).....when the technology involves no ionising radiation at all and has nothing whatsoever to do with the technology used in nuclear power or nuclear bombs. ...but people were declining NMR scans because of the big, bad, scary nuclear word. 

 

If we want all these electric toys....the trains, trams, EV's....electric heating, electric cooking (No thank you, said every chef who ever lived).....we're going to need nuclear power. Our existing fossil fuel stations are coming to the end of their lives....and most of us don't want to build more because we recognise that there are better ways to produce electricity.....but what's going to replace them? Though....another matter....presumably we want to continue to have steel for our cars, our canned food, for the reinforcement rods in the concrete buildings we like......coke produced from burning coal in power stations is *essential* for this....from where are we to get it when we stop burning coal?  I am not suggesting we dig more coal, but what I am pointing out is that what often seems a no brainer has further consequences. 



#861 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 19:08

I wonder how the electric engine enthusiasts will look when they find out their so called green paradise never came to pass in the future. Electric is not the future, and global warming is a hoax.

#862 absinthedude

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 19:10

Global warming is not a hoax. It's real. It's happening. It's man made. But electric cars are not the solution. Unless we are prepared to accept a lot less flexibility in our ability to travel. Which recent events suggest we are not...



#863 Cirio

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 19:11

Solar, wind, tidal plus hydrogen to store the energy.



#864 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 19:27

The first big sign for F1 that it needs to change fundamentally is Honda pulling out.


If you think this is the "first big sign" I don't know that you've been paying attention. There have been big signs since at least the '90s.

#865 Flyhigh

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 19:38

The good thing about a thread like this is that you can see who are the flat earthers brain dead... 



#866 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 20:00

Quite obvious that this thread has run its course. Send a PM to a mod if you want to talk about Honda leaving F1, or find a suitable thread in The Paddock Club if you want to talk about the world’s future energy needs.