205 replies to this topic

[AustinF1]

Without any Hybrid element Renault wouldn’t have been in F1 anymore. They pushed the hardest for these regulations.

The Mercedes board wouldn’t allow such huge investments if there was no sustainable part of the story either.

Ferrari is the only one who doesn’t really care, yet even their hyper car is a hybrid ^^.

Would be fun though, F1 with just one PU supplier :-).

- "Without any hybrid element" isn't what we're talking about.

- Merc is making most of their money back in ... you guessed it ... marketing value, which is precisely why they're in F1. Now they threaten to leave F1 if it strays from this formula, because they'd lose their entrenched advantage and have to start over. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday. If their advantage is gone, that's threatened.

- Ferrari makes a hybrid hypercar. So? I'm a big advocate of hybrid power and believe it's what's really going to bridge the gap between ICE-only power and whatever's next. And we're seeing the manufacturers move that way. Again, we're talking about simplifying and bringing some sanity and affordability to a hybrid formula, not eliminating hybrid power.

Edited by AustinF1, 09 October 2020 - 18:37.

[Ben1445]

 I'm a big advocate of hybrid power and believe it's what's really going to bridge the gap between ICE-only power and whatever's next. And we're seeing the manufacturers move that way. Again, we're talking about simplifying and bringing some sanity and affordability to a hybrid formula, not eliminating hybrid power.

I'm far more 'let's wait and see' over what technology is going to be the best option, when that will be and for how long for... but then this is pretty much why I don't think hybrids were ever a mistake on a fundamental level. 

 

When it comes to it there's one particular group of powertrain technologies that is almost certainly going to be relevant no matter what - and that's batteries and electric motors making use of regenerative braking. 

 

The core future-relevant powertrain options that are vying to take over from the ICE, be it a parallel hybrid, a series hybrid, a pure battery electric or a hydrogen fuel cell car... all of these options are going to feature batteries and electric motors to some degree. 

 

If F1 ensures batteries and electric motor with regenerative braking is one of, if not the most fundamental element(s) of its technical regulations then that, in my opinion, gives them the most flexibility for the future. If the future is hybrid, they're covered. If the future is fuel cells, they're covered. If the future is battery electric, they're covered. And not just for a few years either but for decades (all going well) regardless of what timescales technological maturity or achieving a zero-emissions transition can actually occur within.

 

In the face of such uncertainty, electrification is a sturdy rock to hold onto in my opinion. 

[AustinF1]

I'm far more 'let's wait and see' over what technology is going to be the best option, when that will be and for how long for... but then this is pretty much why I don't think hybrids were ever a mistake on a fundamental level. 

 

When it comes to it there's one particular group of powertrain technologies that is almost certainly going to be relevant no matter what - and that's batteries and electric motors making use of regenerative braking. 

 

The core future-relevant powertrain options that are vying to take over from the ICE, be it a parallel hybrid, a series hybrid, a pure battery electric or a hydrogen fuel cell car... all of these options are going to feature batteries and electric motors to some degree. 

 

If F1 ensures batteries and electric motor with regenerative braking is one of, if not the most fundamental element(s) of its technical regulations then that, in my opinion, gives them the most flexibility for the future. If the future is hybrid, they're covered. If the future is fuel cells, they're covered. If the future is battery electric, they're covered. And not just for a few years either but for decades (all going well) regardless of what timescales technological maturity or achieving a zero-emissions transition can actually occur within.

 

In the face of such uncertainty, electrification is a sturdy rock to hold onto in my opinion. 

Right, and that's the hybrid road F1 was emphasizing before this PU era. Who knows what kind of gains could have been made in it, and much more cheaply, had they continued that emphasis.

[Ben1445]

I'm really surprised MGU-K recovery and deployment limits have remained the same through all years of the current PU formula. 

 

They should be recovering twice what they were in 2014 and be well on the way to adding front axle recovery if not already have it. 

 

In fact it's all just been remarkably stagnant...

[PayasYouRace]

I'm really surprised MGU-K recovery and deployment limits have remained the same through all years of the current PU formula. 

 

They should be recovering twice what they were in 2014 and be well on the way to adding front axle recovery if not already have it. 

 

In fact it's all just been remarkably stagnant...

 

I'm not surprised at all because at the end of the day there's still the aspect of F1 regulations that aims to keep laptimes (safety) within reasonable limits. Since 2017 the cars have been setting lap record after lap record. If incremental increases in MGU-K recovery and deployment would have been allowed it would have had to be countered by ever smaller, or more restricted, ICEs. That would be even more expensive.

[Ben1445]

I was convinced the original plan was to incrementally increase energy recovery and reduce the permitted fuel flow accordingly... unless that's just a completely apocryphal fact I've plucked from nowhere. 

 

Given how they are performing today it's almost easy to forget how messy the V6Ts introduction was. Costs were higher than expected, the noise was drawing companies left right and centre, drivers were complaining about driving to fuel numbers and Red Bull managed to get disqualified for going over the fuel flow in their first race. So I suppose where we are now kind of makes sense. 

 

Maybe surprised was the wrong word. Disappointed is probably more appropriate.