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2020 Eifel GP Build Up


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#901 rodlamas

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 21:34

Looking at tomorrow's predicted low temps it occurred to me that being the pole sitter could be a disadvantage. Assuming Bottas gets a clean start and leads into the 1st corner, he will be driving into cool air while everyone else will be driving into hot air from the car in front which will help their tyres get up to temp more quickly. This advantage may only last for the 1st few laps but good be enough for max and lewis to get past. What you's all reckon?


The Earth cannot be any flatter than this.

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#902 Baddoer

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 21:38

Looking at tomorrow's predicted low temps it occurred to me that being the pole sitter could be a disadvantage. Assuming Bottas gets a clean start and leads into the 1st corner, he will be driving into cool air while everyone else will be driving into hot air from the car in front which will help their tyres get up to temp more quickly. This advantage may only last for the 1st few laps but good be enough for max and lewis to get past. What you's all reckon?

DAS is his saviour.



#903 F1Gui

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 21:46

The Earth cannot be any flatter than this.


I'm not a flat earther lol

#904 Marklar

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 21:53

We always have the Bottas talk after a good Saturday.

And then everybody forgets when he is pretty mediocre on a Sunday.

And then he has a good Saturday a few weeks later and we have to here again how underrated he is (I guess with the aim of making Hamilton look better?).

guess the aim of those Bottas bashing sessions is to make Hamilton look worse then?

#905 Beri

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 21:55

DAS is his saviour.

Nah..

https://forums.autos...-merged/page-17

Edited by Beri, 10 October 2020 - 21:55.


#906 HP

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 22:03

I wasn't really talking about this forum in particular just what I've observed in general.

I don't think Albon is rated, but most people tend to say that it's proof how amazing Max is that he's beating him comprehensively.

But then when it comes to Hamilton, it's because Bottas is not a real challenge and Max needs to be put in the Merc, despite the fact Bottas is a lot closer.

Look at another of Hamiltons team mate. In general people rate Button higher than Bottas. And there are people that considered Button on the same level as Hamilton for a while (not me). Where does that place Bottas for those people?

 

My point earlier on Bottas vs. Barrichello is also because they have pretty much the same position in regards to their team mate. Bottas keeps Hamilton honest. Barrichello was in average slower by 0.2 seconds than MSC. How much is Bottas in average slower than Hamilton? Bottas seems to better than Rubens in the "push myself ahead rather than whinge" department. In contrast, everyone is used to the quality and consistency of Hamiltons racing. So he can only go down in people's estimation.  

 

As to Verstappen. He is very good. Is he better than Hamilton? We simply cannot tell. Hence many give him the benefit of doubt. The direct comparison to Hamilton would solve that. It would be treat to see how both LH and MV push each other to be even better and best the other. To Hamilton fans, I can only say this from my perspective. Many of you seem to see him as a better version of Senna. Hamilton himself made sure of that perception. However career wise, Hamilton is currently in the position of Prost and Verstappen is in the position of Senna. The younger is bound to replace the older at some point. Shame for all of us that we probably never see both next to each other racing the same car and demonstrate their skills in a direct comparison. Of course, there would be disappointment in one fan club. But the battle would be enjoyable for F1 fans like me.

 

Albon and Bottas are not important in that equation. Bottas might get a WDC if he stays long enough at Mercedes for Hamilton to have lots of unreliability on his car or decline fast or leave Merc or retire, and Merc continue to be the dominant force. On Albon I agree mostly with you. What I differ from your opinion is this: Albon fails to keep Verstappen honest. So for now Verstappen being able to push himself nearer to the ultimate top seems more impressive at first to many. However it is at least equally hard for any guy to stay on top as long as Hamilton has done. Just enjoy it as long as you can. Realistically it won't last forever. 

 

Finally Bottas is way better than Albon. The championship battle at this point would be much tighter, if not for the tyre blowout earlier in the season. Before this Eiffel GP, point difference between Hamilton and Bottas 44 points ~ 20%, Verstappen vs Albon 64 points, which is exactly 50%. Albons clash earlier this season with Hamilton even contributed to the stat difference. On the other hand, had that clash not happened and Albon gone by Hamilton proper, then Bottas gap to Hamilton would also been a bit closer. As it stands right now Hamilton has the luxury of one DNF. Not that I think that the one DNF will cost Bottas the WDC in the end. But lets entertain that thought. What if Bottas ends up losing the WDC with less than 25 points to his tally?  Will Hamiltons fans make the same noise than they did when Rosberg won the championship, because Hamilton had more unreliability? You guys could so far not even make the claim of Bottas being a dirty racer.

 

So no reason to be bothered about your original claim. There are clear facts that people don't rate Albon as high as they do Bottas. But no sane person would rate Bottas higher than Hamiltons overall career, even if Bottas really should manage to win a championship against Hamilton. Before Bottas would be in a position to overhaul Hamilton's records, F1 probably closes because of boredom of the current formula.

 

Anyhow, to make it crystal clear where I stand in this, I don't rate Bottas much. But he is currently much better than Albon, very competent but inconsistent. If he could keep his best form throughout a season, then he might challenge Hamilton. Haven't seen inconsistent drivers that were able to change that trait tough. Naturally gifted drivers like Hamilton are consistent precisely because they are so gifted. They have a higher starting point to boot from. An no matter how many "upgrades" Bottas goes through, the efforts involved to upgrade will wear him out sooner or later. Actually we see that already with the inconsistency that seems always be looming around.



#907 ARTGP

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 22:56

I'm not a flat earther lol

 

:p



#908 BobbyRicky

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 23:46

Hmm, a German starting last at the Nurburgring with possibility of rain on sunday.

Hulkenberg gonna channel his inner Winkelhock!



#909 TomNokoe

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 23:48

Forecast says 10% chance of rain. It will be bone dry.

#910 FLB

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 23:48

Hmm, a German starting last at the Nurburgring with possibility of rain on sunday.

Hulkenberg gonna channel his inner Winkelhock!

Driving for the current iteration of the same team, too.



#911 Dolph

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 01:31

 

Why are you linking your own two sentences?



#912 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 02:04

Forecast says 10% chance of rain. It will be bone dry.

 

How does F1 manage to dodge a rain bullet most of the time?  :mad:



#913 beachdrifter

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 03:39

Haven't heard anything on tyre strategies? What are realistic options?



#914 Paco

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 04:15

Haven't heard anything on tyre strategies? What are realistic options?


I was surprised Mercedes didn’t go Mrs. the. Heard Lewis say he wanted to try something and they veto’d Him. Now little in it unless safety car. Expect Bottas in early and Lewis to try and overcut.

#915 Requiem84

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 06:12

guess the aim of those Bottas bashing sessions is to make Hamilton look worse then?


It’s to lament the lack of competition Hamilton has.

#916 Bleu

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 06:50

How does F1 manage to dodge a rain bullet most of the time?  :mad:

 

Secretly seeding clouds?



#917 thegamer23

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 08:31

Good morning!!

121244359_10217107557625857_496013260813



#918 Anja

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 08:38

How does F1 manage to dodge a rain bullet most of the time?  :mad:

 

Unsurprisingly, the next few days from tomorrow onwards are supposed to be pretty rainy  :lol:



#919 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 08:47

No Eifel Shower today then

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#920 BobbyRicky

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:03

No Eifel Shower today then

 

Is the sky blue, da ba dee?



#921 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:04

Dry race :/

#922 krapmeister

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:05

No Eifel Shower today then


I think watersports belong in the Paddock Club...

#923 ARTGP

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:05

never say never



#924 Marklar

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:13

Pirelli thinks it's a clear two stopper (Soft-Medium-Soft quicker than Soft-Medium-Medium, due to graining I guess), so one stop it is.


Edited by Marklar, 11 October 2020 - 09:14.


#925 kernel

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:18

Oh, come on. He hasn't impressed me one single bit ever since he joined Mercedes. He's quick when it doesn't count (the championship has been decided a long time ago) and he drives without courage when it does.

Hamilton had a complete off day, simple as that.

Hamilton being beaten by 2 tenths by one of the best qualifiers in F1 is an off day?

Could flip it around and say VER had an off day for underperforming in Q3 like HAM and Albon only ending up what 4 tenths behind him (less than the average gap)?

Edited by kernel, 11 October 2020 - 09:28.


#926 Astandahl

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:49

Leclerc Q3

 

Max Q3


Edited by Astandahl, 11 October 2020 - 10:43.


#927 ARTGP

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:58

Hamilton being beaten by 2 tenths by one of the best qualifiers in F1 is an off day?

Could flip it around and say VER had an off day for underperforming in Q3 like HAM and Albon only ending up what 4 tenths behind him (less than the average gap)?

 

Would anybody even be saying this if Valterri was in a different car.....

 

Just look at Hamilton's onboard. He overshot Turn 1. There was more time in it.


Edited by ARTGP, 11 October 2020 - 09:58.


#928 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 10:03

Anyone got a race thread in the works?



#929 Marklar

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 10:06

Would anybody even be saying this if Valterri was in a different car.....

Just look at Hamilton's onboard. He overshot Turn 1. There was more time in it.

He was considered one of the best qualifiers during his Williams days (just like Hulkenberg too), Russell is currently considered one of the best qualifiers, that's the one thing where the car has probably little to do with. If anything it's a disadvantage since you probably look worse than you are alongside a elite driver

#930 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 10:11

Bottas Q3
https://www.youtube....h?v=K3ii8NbFJsk

Hamilton vs Max Q3
https://www.youtube....h?v=1YzJedXUGPE

Leclerc Q3
https://www.youtube....h?v=HkJ_cFg7QPk




You're wrong with Bottas lap, it was fp3

#931 Kao18

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 10:12

He was considered one of the best qualifiers during his Williams days (just like Hulkenberg too), Russell is currently considered one of the best qualifiers, that's the one thing where the car has probably little to do with. If anything it's a disadvantage since you probably look worse than you are alongside a elite driver


Russel considered one of the best qualifiers??

#932 ARTGP

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 10:25

He was considered one of the best qualifiers during his Williams days (just like Hulkenberg too), Russell is currently considered one of the best qualifiers, that's the one thing where the car has probably little to do with. If anything it's a disadvantage since you probably look worse than you are alongside a elite driver

 

Every team has a "best qualifier" (except maybe Alfa Romeo  :lol: ). I don't see Bottas standing out.  and as regards to Russel....It's Latifi and Kubica for christ sake.  Credit to him for never binning it (iirc), but he's hardly being challenged.


Edited by ARTGP, 11 October 2020 - 10:27.


#933 Clrnc

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 10:35

Never thought Bottas was any thing exceptional in quali. His Williams days all his teammates were crap



#934 Astandahl

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 10:43

You're wrong with Bottas lap, it was fp3

You are right lol.



#935 alframsey

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 11:31

Lewis will win.

#936 as65p

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 11:47

Never thought Bottas was any thing exceptional in quali. His Williams days all his teammates were crap

Look, every time he starts ahead of Hamilton, Bottas is one of the best qualifiers F1 has ever seen. There is no other explanation, it's actually considered very bad form to think about one, let alone speak about it. So, wash your keyboard with soap!

 

 ;)



#937 TomNokoe

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 09:39

I'll put together a Portugal build up thread later this evening



#938 JimmyClark

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 10:31

Never thought Bottas was any thing exceptional in quali. His Williams days all his teammates were crap

 

Well that means Hamilton isn't that exceptional either in quali, considering how close Bottas generally is to him. 

 

And his teammates were Maldonado and Massa - drivers also pretty good over one lap. If he made them look bad in quali, then you can't say that he's not great at it. 

 

Its his soft racecraft and tyre management that let him down. 



#939 ARTGP

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 13:57

Well that means Hamilton isn't that exceptional either in quali, considering how close Bottas generally is to him. 

 

And his teammates were Maldonado and Massa - drivers also pretty good over one lap. If he made them look bad in quali, then you can't say that he's not great at it. 

 

Its his soft racecraft and tyre management that let him down. 

 

This is a misnomer. The Mercedes is a really nice car to drive.  Give them both the Ferrari...and Bottas wouldn't look so hot.