Jump to content


Photo

Sir Jackie has spoken


  • Please log in to reply
322 replies to this topic

#301 Imperial

Imperial
  • Member

  • 4,820 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 27 October 2020 - 07:21

Looking back over this thread, you might wonder if Stewart could do with something to bolster his reputation.  He has been bashed pretty hard.

 

 

 

I don't think he has been bashed by anyone really, but I would say that any criticism has not been unreasonable.

 

His sporting achievements are remarkable, first in shooting, then in racing. He has been a master of other activities since then, with TV work, running an F1 team that gained success with podiums and a win not long after starting, and he seems very capable as a man who can mix it up and do dealings with top business men and women (if corporate activity floats your boat). His Race Against Dementia work is another feather in his cap, perhaps it may end up being his greatest yet. All of this achieved despite him starting life disadvantaged as a dyslexic.

 

There are many reasons to love this man, and love him I do.

 

But boy does he like to talk. Eddie Irvine once made a comment about opinions being like a rude thing we all have, but Jackie seems to have rather more than just the one if that's the case!

 

And I know it is a part of the game, and if Jackie is questioned about something his response will make it into print in a way that, for example, if Derek Warwick expressed a juicy opinion it would need to be a really slow news day to appear anywhere.



Advertisement

#302 Glengavel

Glengavel
  • Member

  • 1,304 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 27 October 2020 - 07:42

Looking back over this thread, you might wonder if Stewart could do with something to bolster his reputation.  He has been bashed pretty hard.

 

When Coulthard was racing, he was dealing with a mind-set amongst British teams that seemed to down-play domestic talent.  It is well-known that Ron Dennis had a preference for his Finnish drivers.  He even obliged Coulthard to give up a win to the up-till-then winless Hakkinen.  Had DC been a more ruthless character, he might have told Ron to stick it. 

 

I've always thought this; I don't think DC had that ruthless streak. I also wonder if his plane crash in 2000 made him more aware of the inherent danger of the sport and blunted his edge.



#303 AJCee

AJCee
  • Member

  • 336 posts
  • Joined: August 15

Posted 27 October 2020 - 12:53

I've always thought this; I don't think DC had that ruthless streak. I also wonder if his plane crash in 2000 made him more aware of the inherent danger of the sport and blunted his edge.

 


You may well have a point about the plane crash. To my mind, David Coulthard is one of the few drivers who doesn't have a 'what if?' against his record. He was in winning cars at his peak, he was always a potential GP winner, top three potential in the championship consistently, but never made the final step. That said, he was bloomin' good, almost top drawer and seems a decent enough chap too. It really isn't fair or possible to compare drivers between eras with any definitive accuracy. They all race with the equipment and circumstances of their time against their own cohort of opponents. Maybe it is simply the opinion of those that shared the track with them that lends the best yardstick? You can only win against the competition at the time, stepping aside to athletics as an example, Michael Johnson no longer holds the 400m world record. Arguably he would be the best of all time at the discipline, but if he were 28 now, would he set himself to beat van Niekirk's record, or would van Niekirk prove to be inherently faster? We can never know.

Edited by AJCee, 27 October 2020 - 16:08.


#304 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,950 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 27 October 2020 - 13:56

I also wonder if his plane crash in 2000 made him more aware of the inherent danger of the sport and blunted his edge.

He walked out of that crashed plane, where the flight crew had died, and went on to take second place, beaten only by his team-mate, at the Spanish GP a couple of days later.  That doesn't sound like any blunting of his edge.  It was probably his finest hour in fact - proper Boy's Own paper stuff!



#305 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,824 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 27 October 2020 - 14:19

Sorry, but if you can wait to watch the race, you can wait to read the Autosport forums.

 

Heresy! :kiss:



#306 Myhinpaa

Myhinpaa
  • Member

  • 515 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 27 October 2020 - 14:37

I've always thought this; I don't think DC had that ruthless streak. I also wonder if his plane crash in 2000 made him more aware of the inherent danger of the sport and blunted his edge.

 

Will always think of Monaco '01 when after stalling on the grid he didn't manage to get past Bernoldi in the Arrows.

 

https://youtu.be/0580hWfHknQ

 

When Schumacher came to lap them he passed them both, while Coulthard remained stuck behind until Bernoldi did his pit stop.

 

Compare this with Hakkinen's move on Schumacher + Zonta at Spa the year before : https://youtu.be/Pd0LMH6yijA?t=116



#307 DCapps

DCapps
  • Member

  • 880 posts
  • Joined: August 16

Posted 27 October 2020 - 16:47

For quite some time now, my attention and research focus has been directed primarily at the waning years of the 19th Century and the first decades of the 20th Century, especially on the North American side of the Atlantic. Among other things, this has created a genuine admiration for Barney Oldfield as both a Racer and a promotional genius. It has also made it clear that many of those competing during those formative years -- on both sides of the Atlantic -- were nothing short of amazing on the tracks that they competed upon and the conditions under which they competed. It has been quite a revelation to closely study this era after the usual nonsense that one tends to read in what relatively little is directed its way.

 

I have long found that the bestowing of superlatives such as "greatest" and so form upon people or particular events or specific artifacts can can be an interesting exercise, but generally one belongs in the "so-what?" category of endeavors. One "so-what" is that it does have the possibility to allow the discussion of the conditions, the context if you will, under these drivers competed and even -- heavens forbid -- how perceptions of the sport have evolved. And so forth and so on....

 

If one considers a span of maybe three or at the most four seasons then one might perhaps get a good sense of just who might be the stand-out for that period. However, it also needs to be a rolling sort of look, of course, each span advancing a season at a time. Not the way most would ever wish to do such a thing, but it provides the sort of context that simply does not exist when attempting to compare Lewis Hamilton of 2020 with, say, Jack Brabham of 1960 or Niki Lauda of 1978. I have no idea regarding who the GOAT in GP/F1 might be. Nor do I really care, to be honest. It is simply something that others can argue about and waste time mulling over (after all, EVERYONE knows that it is really -----, of course!).

 

To go back to what I started off with, the early years of motor sport, for a moment. While much has been written about Oldfield, I now think that much -- if not virtually almost all -- of it at times misses just how good Oldfield really was on the track and how his self-promotion helped create an interest in the sport. I have come to sense that one of the true challenges for the motor sport historian is dealing with the brutal fact that it is a sport that is often at the mercy of technology and as such undergoing what can be seen as an endless series of paradigm shifts, which also are not necessarily uniform given the diversity of the sport, creating an accompanying chorus of what might be thought of as an interesting form of cognitive dissonance compounded by a reluctance to accept that ambiguity rather than certainty is a contextual factor affecting our perceptions. That is, there is a tendency to value certainty, even when it is created rather evolved, over ambiguity. Or, there must be a GOAT because we wish it were so.

 

I have only met Jackie Stewart maybe a half-dozen times to have anything close to merit calling it an exchange, and each time he was quite gracious and willing to take a few moments to talk and offer his observations or opinion as the case might be. With the understanding that I could NEVER, EVER come even close to achieving what he could do in a racing machine, I listened.

 

At any rate, back to the usual discussion.....



#308 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,824 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 27 October 2020 - 17:13

"Fro' first to last, a muddle", as one of Dickens' characters said on his deathbed.



#309 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 70,106 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 27 October 2020 - 17:42

Will always think of Monaco '01 when after stalling on the grid he didn't manage to get past Bernoldi in the Arrows.

 

https://youtu.be/0580hWfHknQ

 

When Schumacher came to lap them he passed them both, while Coulthard remained stuck behind until Bernoldi did his pit stop.

 

Compare this with Hakkinen's move on Schumacher + Zonta at Spa the year before : https://youtu.be/Pd0LMH6yijA?t=116

 

Monaco is not Spa. Overtaking a lapped car has different rules and opportunities than fighting for position. 



#310 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,469 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 27 October 2020 - 18:03

It is simply something that others can argue about and waste time mulling over (after all, EVERYONE knows that it is really -----, of course!).

Excellent post, Don.  :up:

 

I was especially intrigued by your use of each dash indicating two characters, as in Vi ll en eu ve. Brilliant.  :kiss:



#311 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 9,705 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 29 October 2020 - 15:23

He walked out of that crashed plane, where the flight crew had died, and went on to take second place, beaten only by his team-mate, at the Spanish GP a couple of days later.  That doesn't sound like any blunting of his edge.  It was probably his finest hour in fact - proper Boy's Own paper stuff!

Immediately after the event he would be in a state of shock - I mean mental rather than physical.  His mind would try to blot out the memory and he would be running on a sort of "autopilot" and taking refuge in the familiar. One effect is that this single mindedness can produce an improved performance - witness Jackie Stewarts demon lap of Monza after Jochen Rindt was killed.  In time the reality would take over and the protective "blotting out" fade and at this stage the introspection can click in.


Edited by D-Type, 29 October 2020 - 15:24.


#312 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 9,705 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 29 October 2020 - 15:27

~ Barney Oldfield as both a Racer and a promotional genius.~

Didn't the AAA lose interest in a championship they were running when Oldfield was running away with everything and putting the "people like us" in the shade?



#313 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,950 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 29 October 2020 - 16:29

Immediately after the event he would be in a state of shock - I mean mental rather than physical.  His mind would try to blot out the memory and he would be running on a sort of "autopilot" and taking refuge in the familiar. One effect is that this single mindedness can produce an improved performance - witness Jackie Stewarts demon lap of Monza after Jochen Rindt was killed.  In time the reality would take over and the protective "blotting out" fade and at this stage the introspection can click in.

Maybe, but I prefer to think that he showed a bit of the 'right stuff'.

 

If it had been Ascari or Nuvolari or Seaman surviving a plane crash and racing well soon after, it would become part of their legend.  But if a modern day driver does it, it is put down to shock.  :well:



#314 DCapps

DCapps
  • Member

  • 880 posts
  • Joined: August 16

Posted 29 October 2020 - 18:46

Didn't the AAA lose interest in a championship they were running when Oldfield was running away with everything and putting the "people like us" in the shade?

An interesting interpretation, but the incoming president of the AAA -- along with others in various positions in the organization -- was among those opposed to the organization's involvement in racing. While the Racing Board continued to exist in 1906, it was given lukewarm at best support by those in the executive positions of the AAA. Reliability contests and tours were more of what those leading the AAA were interesting in supporting rather than track racing. Keep in mind that the Vanderbilt Cup was not run in 1907, which was not a coincidence, the crowd control problem being a valid way for the AAA to withdraw its support of the event. The National Motor Car Championship was essentially toast under the new leadership. The deaths and injuries that occurred during the 1905 season resulted in a black-eye publicity-wise for the AAA and the criticisms raised both within and from outside the organization were very loud and very clear.

 

As for "people like us" aspect specifically, given the support that Oldfield, Chevrolet, and the others that might be considered hoi polloi received from "The Right Sort of People" not sure as to whether that might hold much water, as they say. However, the sport was in the midst of a transition that meant that the "people like us" more often than not were the entrants/car owners than the drivers in most cases. Certainly, there were the Sportsmen of the day with means who continued to participate as drivers, but there was a definite move towards hiring professional drivers to do the driving. It was still a sport requiring a significant financial investment that few within the working class could afford.

 

Duncan, does this begin to address your inquiry?

 

Also, having walked away -- or crawled away as in one instance -- from three helicopter crashes with only a broken wrist and various other minor injuries, it definitely gets your attention. Two were quick, one wasn't. The one that wasn't actually bothered me the least since I had an idea as to what was happening. The first one, which was quick, violent and a real surprise was a true shock to me -- it was a first for me, of course. The second is the one that broke my wrist -- quick, violent, bad luck, could have been worse since we did not roll when we hit so that the main rotor did not slice off the tail section as happened the first time; which happened exactly one month after the first one. Say what you will, but Coulthard impressed me since I had a very good idea as to what he was probably going through. As a dummy with a neck size and an IQ about the same number-wise, I simply sucked it up and gone on with things. But, I have rarely slept on an aircraft of any type since then....



#315 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,469 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 29 October 2020 - 19:20

Thanks for the candor — and again, for your service, Don.

 

With our own experiences, I'm a firm believer that full appreciation of life truly begins when we nearly lose ours. Glad you didn't.  :up:



#316 onetoofast

onetoofast
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 18 November 2020 - 17:41

The Stewart currently tight lipped ? 



#317 brakedisc

brakedisc
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:16

The Stewart currently tight lipped ? 

 

Might be because they are looking at Hamiltons tax returns to see if he is suitable for a Knighthood?



#318 Gabrci

Gabrci
  • Member

  • 655 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 18 November 2020 - 18:43

The Stewart currently tight lipped ? 

 

No, to be fair to him he has spoken very highly of Hamilton saying that he deserves a knighthood: 

 

https://www.skysport...es-a-knighthood



#319 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 11,535 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 18 November 2020 - 19:29

I am very pro-JYS - I admire him greatly, and I owe him a lot - but sometimes it does seem wise (the stealth fighter approach) to keep relatively quiet in public - why provide a platform for criticism? - when energetic lobbying in private can achieve more success...

 

DCN



Advertisement

#320 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,869 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 27 November 2020 - 12:24

I would suggest that all the British WCs have been from humble backgrounds including JYC.   The current three new British lads in F1 do have wealthy families though.

 

I saw Lewis race a few times at Rowrah and yes they were on a shoe string and not the only ones as there weren't the big motor homes and mobile workshops and professional teams in karting as there is now. The Buttons only had a van with the kart in and to sleep in as did a lot of others.  More recently the Strolls took up half the paddock and then their helicopter arrived.

Discussion just now about karting and grassroots racing on Sky during Bahrain FP1 on this very subject. '£100 tyres being thrown away after every heat'. 'New chassis and engine for every practice session'.

 

€650K to do a season in F4 ...



#321 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 62,006 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 27 November 2020 - 12:59

This is where the W Series has it right.  Take the cars from them after every race and re-distribute for the next.

 

Formula Palmer Audi did that.  Made Justin Wilson a star.  But I think a few blue-eyed boys had their reputations put out of joint and sponsors didn't like that.



#322 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 15,585 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 28 November 2020 - 09:30

Discussion just now about karting and grassroots racing on Sky during Bahrain FP1 on this very subject. '£100 tyres being thrown away after every heat'. 'New chassis and engine for every practice session'.

 

€650K to do a season in F4 ...

 

'Twas ever thus; not just in karting but in FF1600, F3 etc. Money speaks and discarding used tyres, worn gear ratios and even complete cars was and still is commonplace. We even have this in hillclimbing where tyres are rotated through practice, qualifying class runs and Top 12 run Offs.



#323 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,869 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 28 November 2020 - 10:48

'Twas ever thus; not just in karting but in FF1600, F3 etc. Money speaks and discarding used tyres, worn gear ratios and even complete cars was and still is commonplace. We even have this in hillclimbing where tyres are rotated through practice, qualifying class runs and Top 12 run Offs.

All a long way from the 'racing for the impecunious' philosophy of the early 500cc racing car builders. :well: