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Fans designing circuits


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#1 Rodaknee

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:41

Liberty have had another great idea!

 

 

Formula 1 has developed artificial intelligence that combines fans’ social media and Reddit reactions with race and simulation data, to come up with more exciting circuit designs and modifications to existing tracks.

 

I do not jest.  I suppose it's possible we could do a better job than Mr Tickle.

 

Pat Symonds, Formula 1’s chief technical officer, is using this 'ere clever stuff to spice up the show.  He'll be arranging crashes next.

 

https://www.motorspo...future-circuits

 

If that's not enough, he's playing with other stuff to change race starts and starting formats too.

 

https://www.motorspo...ew-race-formats

 

Much more of this and soon cars & drivers won't be necessary.

 



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#2 sabjit

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:47

I design and run machine learning algorithms as part of my job. They can go horribly wrong.



#3 Anderis

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:52

 

Formula 1 has developed artificial intelligence that combines fans’ social media and Reddit reactions with race and simulation data, to come up with more exciting circuit designs and modifications to existing tracks.

Excuse me, how is that supposed to work? :p



#4 Marklar

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:52

sounds like april fools

#5 Afterburner

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:55

I am immediately put in mind of the random track generator in F-Zero X, which would occasionally throw in a track with an impossible corner that would kill all the AI on the first lap. Good times. :lol:

#6 Rodaknee

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:55

sounds like april fools

So does most that we hear from Liberty.



#7 Fastcake

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:56

Most fan redesigns of circuits I've seen end up being obsessed with being fast and flowing, to the extent where they end up obliterating many of the best overtaking spots.

 

I wouldn't hold out much hope. :lol:



#8 TomNokoe

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 17:58

These ideas make me irrationally angry

#9 Lights

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:03

"to come up with more exciting circuit designs and modifications to existing tracks."
"test new formats to create exciting racing"

 

Nothing like this is needed as long as the cars can provide good racing. There's nothing wrong with the current format, or the current tracks. It's the cars that's the issue.

 

And Ross is fixing that, right? That's why he got hired 3.5 years ago. So why spend resources researching 'exciting' circuits and formats now, when in 1.5 years we will anyway have exciting racing?

 

“If you are pushing in that direction it’s a testimony that you failed to come up with regulations and tools that bring the field more together and make racing better on track” - Sebastian Vettel.


Edited by Lights, 06 October 2020 - 18:04.


#10 Ruusperi

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:10

Yay, can I design a track that is 180 cm wide with a drop to nothingness on either side? "The ultimate challenge awaits".



#11 AustinF1

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:10

Nothing like this is needed as long as the cars can provide good racing. There's nothing wrong with the current format, or the current tracks. It's the cars that's the issue.

 

And Ross is fixing that, right? That's why he got hired 3.5 years ago. So why spend resources researching 'exciting' circuits and formats now, when in 1.5 years we will anyway have exciting racing?

 

“If you are pushing in that direction it’s a testimony that you failed to come up with regulations and tools that bring the field more together and make racing better on track” - Sebastian Vettel.

Wow. Exactly. It's the cars, not the tracks. 



#12 D.M.N.

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:12

Already looking forward to the 2022 Sunob Grand Prix...

 



#13 Atreiu

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:15

Some tracks do have room for improvement though.

#14 Neno

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:18

Tracks are not a problem. F1 cars are. Too long, too heavy and too many thing on them which arent needed like DRS or Halo. It's being decade and now more since last true F1 cars. Fast, agile, nimble and small with low noses. I still dont understand why are we going in complete different direction every time new F1 regs are introduced


Edited by Neno, 06 October 2020 - 18:19.


#15 azza200

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:23

Get someone too build Trail Mountain or Grand Valley from the Gran Turismo series 



#16 Anderis

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:24

I still dont understand why are we going in complete different direction every time new F1 regs are introduced

Lack of long-term vision + weak FIA bending to the wishes of top teams and manufacturers.



#17 Rodaknee

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:28

Nothing like this is needed as long as the cars can provide good racing. There's nothing wrong with the current format, or the current tracks. It's the cars that's the issue.

 

And Ross is fixing that, right? That's why he got hired 3.5 years ago. So why spend resources researching 'exciting' circuits and formats now, when in 1.5 years we will anyway have exciting racing?

 

“If you are pushing in that direction it’s a testimony that you failed to come up with regulations and tools that bring the field more together and make racing better on track” - Sebastian Vettel.

 

Didn't you notice the huge improvements last year?

 

 

F1: Quality of racing could improve by 20% in 2019, says Ross Brawn

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rmula1/46569015
 

I seem to remember Symonds had been using simulators to fix all the problems caused by the front wings.  He must have been using Win 95.



#18 Rodaknee

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:32

Some tracks do have room for improvement though.

Tracks are using by others during the rest of the year.  F1 have always been good at spending circuit owners money, why should they put money into one weekend a year if it makes the track worse for motorcycles or tin tops.



#19 ANF

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 18:43

If that's not enough, he's playing with other stuff to change race starts and starting formats too.
 
https://www.motorspo...ew-race-formats

Symonds: “In our board room in Piccadilly, we’ve got this fabulous artwork of the start at the Nürburgring in the 1970s, four cars on the first row, three on the second row, four on the third row. To have a look at things like that, you can only do it in a test environment.”

Or you can ask yourself why 2×2 grids were introduced in 1974. Or simply watch this video for free and draw some conclusions:



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#20 Sterzo

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 20:47

There's nothing wrong with the current format, or the current tracks. It's the cars that's the issue.

These exact words should be pasted onto the spectacles of Stefano Domenicali and Ross Brawn. Jean Todt presents a technical issue as he doesn't wear glasses, but it should be on a dangling sign screwed onto his head.



#21 Dolph

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 20:58

Symonds: “In our board room in Piccadilly, we’ve got this fabulous artwork of the start at the Nürburgring in the 1970s, four cars on the first row, three on the second row, four on the third row. To have a look at things like that, you can only do it in a test environment.”

Or you can ask yourself why 2×2 grids were introduced in 1974. Or simply watch this video for free and draw some conclusions:

 

I don't get the point of the video you have linked.  :rolleyes:

 

If there are cars in rows of 3 and 4, they are statistically less likely to encounter a stalled car.

 

In any case there is not much you can do when a racing driver fails to look straight ahead at the start for 3-4 seconds. Luckily there are not many drivers like that.



#22 Rodaknee

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 21:07

I don't get the point of the video you have linked.  :rolleyes:

 

If there are cars in rows of 3 and 4, they are statistically less likely to encounter a stalled car.

 

In any case there is not much you can do when a racing driver fails to look straight ahead at the start for 3-4 seconds. Luckily there are not many drivers like that.

 

They used to start in a line across the grid - no stagger - therefore nowhere to go when the poo hit the fan.

 

https://i.dailymail....35782723331.jpg

 

 



#23 Atreiu

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 21:23

Tracks are using by others during the rest of the year.  F1 have always been good at spending circuit owners money, why should they put money into one weekend a year if it makes the track worse for motorcycles or tin tops.

 

Money shouldn't be a problem for some of the most hated tracks, Abu Dhabi and Sochi, for starters.



#24 Cliff

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 21:39

Machine learning circuit design based on fan favorite corners? With turn 8 of Istanbul being back on the calender that can only have one outcome...

 

 

machinelearning.jpg


Edited by Cliff, 06 October 2020 - 21:43.


#25 ANF

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 21:50

I don't get the point of the video you have linked.  :rolleyes:
 
If there are cars in rows of 3 and 4, they are statistically less likely to encounter a stalled car.
 
In any case there is not much you can do when a racing driver fails to look straight ahead at the start for 3-4 seconds. Luckily there are not many drivers like that.

If the start straight is 14 metres wide and each car is 2 metres wide and there are 2 cars on every row, all aligned in two lanes, you get 10 metres of empty straight track where there won't be any stalled cars.

If the start straight is 14 metres wide and each car is 2 metres wide and there are 4 cars on every other row and 3 cars on every other row, you get 7 cars with no empty track between the grid slots and you're more likely to see a lot of crashes. But hey, maybe that's what Crashgate Pat wants.


Edited by ANF, 06 October 2020 - 21:51.


#26 PayasYouRace

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 22:00

I don't get the point of the video you have linked. :rolleyes:

If there are cars in rows of 3 and 4, they are statistically less likely to encounter a stalled car.

In any case there is not much you can do when a racing driver fails to look straight ahead at the start for 3-4 seconds. Luckily there are not many drivers like that.


Not sure those stats work. With a 4,3,4 grid, there are very few clear lines through the grid. As the rows of 3 are offset of from the rows of 4, there are effectively 7 lanes of track that can potentially be blocked. With the current grid there’s only ever two, and the rest of the track is guaranteed to be clear of stalled cars.

#27 sabjit

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 22:06

The thing is some of the graphics they show which appear to be the product of some random machine learning algorithm that literally make no sense. This strikes me that FOMs attitude to things like this is to go "oh look this is a cool bit of tech lets use it" without understanding what it's really saying and if the model is really credible. When you have publicly inputted information you can end up with some disastrous features that may not be immediately obvious at first.

 

Could this idea in theory work? Maybe. Do I think the powers that be will do a good job of it? No.



#28 Myrvold

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 22:59

I am immediately put in mind of the random track generator in F-Zero X, which would occasionally throw in a track with an impossible corner that would kill all the AI on the first lap. Good times. :lol:

 

The X Cup or whatever it was called in the EU/NA release you mean? ;D



#29 Afterburner

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 23:56

The X Cup or whatever it was called in the EU/NA release you mean? ;D

The X Cup is the one! I spent ages racing on that. It was actually quite good at coming up with fun-to-race layouts, though every once in a while it'd give you the rubbish ones that were just a big circle in a pipe or a cylinder. Then again, I imagine if we set F1 races in a big circular pipe it would hardly be boring!

#30 Atreiu

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 01:27

Do you guys remember a while back where we had this thread with multipe suggestions to improve Abu Dhabi? I remember some were creative and made sense, including one with a bridge/tunnel to make it an 8 shaped layout.

 

Does anyone have any idea how to find this?



#31 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 11:19

I searched "improve yas marina" in the forum search bar and it was the second result.

 

https://forums.autos...t-i-can-fix-it/

 

There you go.



#32 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 11:20

It was me who did the figure of 8 design.

 

 

If you'll excuse the MS Paint editing, I'd make changes something along these lines.

 

yas_marina_circuit_map.jpg

 

To start off, the direction of the S/F straight is reversed. The real last turn becomes my first turn, but taking the short track route to join the current circuit at the chicane, and then following the current circuit past the support pits.

 

In place of the awkward chicane and 90 degree corner T11-14, I'd have a flowing double apex, Suzuka Spoon type corner. Then the two kinks at the marina are smoothed out to a single turn.

 

I'm assuming the hotel section would remain a requirement, but now becomes the only part of the track with street circuit type square turns. After that, what was the penultimate corner begins a an uphill into the overpass. A gentle left followed by a plunging downhill right onto the long back straight.

 

At the end of the straight, a non-constant radius hairpin replaces the tight hairpin and chicane currently there. I haven't drawn it all that well, but it would be like a tighter Parabolica.

 

The Faux Rouge section is then done in reverse, and the current first corner becomes the final corner. The pit entry is changed to a simpler design and does away with the tunnel.



#33 Atreiu

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 12:07

I searched "improve yas marina" in the forum search bar and it was the second result.

https://forums.autos...t-i-can-fix-it/

There you go.


Yeha, that’s it.

We managed to fix Abu Dhabi, we cuold fix other places.

OneLapWonder’s ideas actually make it a great track.

#34 NixxxoN

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 12:16

Terrible idea as fans in general dont have a clue on how to design circuits.

 

They should simply get rid of Tilke and let new designers do the job with fresh ideas.



#35 Risil

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 12:18

It's not really fans designing circuits, it's F1 using fans' reactions as data to guide future designs. I have no idea how that works in practice.



#36 Rodaknee

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 04:24

It's not really fans designing circuits, it's F1 using fans' reactions as data to guide future designs. I have no idea how that works in practice.

I'm convinced they don't either.  I think Brawn has created a group of 'experts' around him and they're running around looking for work to do, otherwise they're likely to be back on the dole.  The American's are probably mystified by  the technical side of F1 and Brawn's Boys are hoping to get away with talking gobbledygook for a little longer.



#37 Beri

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 05:45

It's not really fans designing circuits, it's F1 using fans' reactions as data to guide future designs. I have no idea how that works in practice.


I'll bet you it's another "innovative" idea by Amazon in which they will facilitate the technology needed for gimmicks like this.