623 replies to this topic

[Paco]

Drivers and staff are tested a lot, he had just had a neg result and symptoms were a typical. Frankly, just cause he tested positive doesn’t mean he had a SARS infection (cdc site has info how it could be other infections and SARS-cov-2), it could have been something else or a false positive.

Considering he immediately then tested negative so quickly after goes to show it may not have been an inaccurate result.

I don’t think RP was that far in the wrong and he choose not race so good on him for at least doing that. As for the FIA, they should not go excluding everyone simply for every unwell feeling someone has. There has to be a approach and they have it. If someone doesn’t exhibit std symptoms then it is what it is. If a drive gets a calf cramp.. does it mean you need to get tested, if you get diarrhea does it mean you need to get test, if your balance is off, does it mean retest retest retest..

There has be logic in how they approach this...especially going into flu season and also incidents around the world going up.

I’m no Masi Fan by far, I’m no Lance Fan and disappointed what FI turned into but this situation is like a racing incident, it is what it is. Doubt any malicious intent and you can’t have a system to cover everything no matter how hard you try.

Edited by Paco, 22 October 2020 - 15:51.

[pdac]

I don't understand why they don't act on this much harder than they do.

Do they really think it's acceptable that a team risks immense financial damage to F1 by attributing to the spread of Covid-19? What if governments across the world feel compelled to stop this circus from travelling to their country as they've been obviously lacking with their Covid-19 protocols? 

 

The only reason F1 are testing at all is because they could not get governments and authorities to allow them to continue unless they did. I do not believe for one moment that they would do any testing at all if it were not required by those outside of the circus. As much as they talk about keeping everyone safe, these are just words, like all of the other grandiose words they spout when they want to appear to be something people admire, but something that they are not.

[AustinF1]

The only reason F1 are testing at all is because they could not get governments and authorities to allow them to continue unless they did. I do not believe for one moment that they would do any testing at all if it were not required by those outside of the circus. As much as they talk about keeping everyone safe, these are just words, like all of the other grandiose words they spout when they want to appear to be something people admire, but something that they are not.

I suspect there's a lot of truth here. I wonder what a place like, say, Australia will think when they hear about this episode. From what I understand, a big part of the reason they have a relatively very low infection rate is that  they haven't been allowing outsiders & some of their own citizens to enter, aren't allowing travel from state to state, etc. Might not want to jeopardize the fruits of all that sacrifice by letting in a potentially careless racing series.

[Imperial]

sure, but between wasting resources to get things going and wasting even more resources to increase the safety from 99.8 % to 99.9 % I know what's more reasonable.

I would agree that being 99.8% safe while food shopping is acceptable, as we all need food.

I won't agree that anything less than 100% for F1 is acceptable at all. The world doesn't need a couple of thousand more people needlessly going from country to country. Let's not forget that just because Lance Stroll gets to use a private airport lounge and private jet, the couple of thousand other people are all out there mingling in budget hotels, milling around airports, sitting on easyjet flights.

[pdac]

I suspect there's a lot of truth here. I wonder what a place like, say, Australia will think when they hear about this episode. From what I understand, a big part of the reason they have a relatively very low infection rate is that  they haven't been allowing outsiders & some of their own citizens to enter, aren't allowing travel from state to state, etc. Might not want to jeopardize the fruits of all that sacrifice by letting in a potentially careless racing series.

 

It's difficult to know the exact feelings of people unless you are on the ground there. But I have the impression that the Australians did seem to be their usual bullish selves when it first emerged - not wanting to believe that they would be unduly affected and not wanting to compromise their lifestyles for 'a bit of flu'. Now, though, with weeks of lock down in Melbourne, I get the feeling that the attitude has changed somewhat. It feels like they are happy to be seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I don't get the feeling that they would be too willing to do anything that might put them back again.

 

But like I say, it's difficult to judge and this is just my outside impression.

Edited by pdac, 22 October 2020 - 18:15.

[MikeTekRacing]

I won't agree that anything less than 100% for F1 is acceptable at all. The world doesn't need a couple of thousand more people needlessly going from country to country. Let's not forget that just because Lance Stroll gets to use a private airport lounge and private jet, the couple of thousand other people are all out there mingling in budget hotels, milling around airports, sitting on easyjet flights.

 

First of all..nothing is 100% safe. F1 can't guarantee that a driver doesn't get killed in a car or helicopter crash from the hotel to track. Or any of those. F1 is part of life, entertainment. There is a market there. We can't keep anybody 100% safe. TV shows happen in less controlled way. Do we need TV shows more than F1? And if so which ones? And who decides?

 

"the world doesn't need" - why is that for you to say what the world needs or not? 

[Imperial]

There is a way to be 100% 'safe' on their Covid-19 testing, and the evidence is clear they are not at this point.

[warp]

It's difficult to know the exact feelings of people unless you are on the ground there. But I have the impression that the Australians did seem to be their usual bullish selves when it first emerged - not wanting to believe that they would be unduly affected and not wanting to compromise their lifestyles for 'a bit of flu'. Now, though, with weeks of lock down in Melbourne, I get the feeling that the attitude has changed somewhat. It feels like they are happy to be seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I don't get the feeling that they would be too willing to do anything that might put them back again.

 

But like I say, it's difficult to judge and this is just my outside impression.

 

Living in Oz for the last 7yrs and living in WA now which is closed to every other state and the world now... 

 

Most Aussies got on on board really quick when we started seeing how it was developing in Europe. It was really the East states that wanted out of restrictions earlier.

 

Quarantines are a big thing here in Australia. We have even normal quarantine (agricultural, etc) restrictions between regions, not to mention from abroad to protect our flora and fauna... so the concept of quarantines is not really alien to the average Australian.

 

 

But closer to the point, there were some irregularities at some quarantine hotels in Melbourne that caused a lot of problems. It takes only a handful of people not following the rules to develop a cluster and then you have whole postcodes and states lockdown again.

Edited by warp, 23 October 2020 - 06:38.

[absinthedude]

Vietnam and Cambodia have been fantastic examples in this regard.

 

Indeed. It is not ingrained in human genes or evolution. It is a cultural thing, and in Western Europe and the USA we have become increasingly selfish and self-centred. I am no socialist and am ordinarily in favour of all civil liberties, but even I can see that what is needed is a huge act of collectivism. 

 

It is rather galling to see people swanning around saying they "choose not to believe" in masks or even the virus itself or will "take my own risks" when most of us are still making huge sacrifices in our daily lives at great emotional (and sometimes financial) expense. 

 

The concept of quarantine is quite alien to the average Brit and probably most Europeans. We've had free movement of foodstuffs, plants and livestock within the EU for nearly 30 years. A flight to San Francisco where one is "greeted" with dogs sniffing for contraband apples is quite baffling. We have zero concept of this...though there are some invasive species of plant which are controlled they don't affect most people. The UK literally has no concept of a state imposed curfew because we've not had one in anything like living memory. Not even during WWII. The very idea of politicians having any say whatsoever in where we can travel, stay and live is quite alien to British people. But again, this is a huge act of collectivism and honestly it doesn't take more than basic level knowledge of how this virus is spread to understand why we need to do these things temporarily. 

 

F1 needs to set a standard. People look up to sports stars, musicians, actors etc.....and if they're breaking the rules (Charles Leclerc, I am pointing at you) that does lead the average person to think "If he can, why can't I?". Money and fame buys a lot of privilege but it should not allow one to break the law nor Covid protocol. Especially the latter as it is for the safety of everyone. 

 

There is a huge difference between a driver deciding to fly to a race by helicopter and accept the personal risk and breaking covid related rules. Breaking of Covid protocol/rules risks the lives and wellbeing of those round you.....maybe someone on the same plane, your limo driver, your team colleagues, your family, the fan you chat with, the person in the supermarket...people who probably are following all the rules and doing nothing wrong. It is not in any way, shape or form a case of simply assessing your own personal risk - unless you're going to isolate for 10-14 days after each rule infraction. 

[as65p]

There is a way to be 100% 'safe' on their Covid-19 testing, and the evidence is clear they are not at this point.

Ahem, no. It's never 100 percent, even if you test every hour. Things do go wrong, you know.

 

They could minimize the risk further from what they have now, though, that's true.

[as65p]

Indeed. It is not ingrained in human genes or evolution. It is a cultural thing, and in Western Europe and the USA we have become increasingly selfish and self-centred. I am no socialist and am ordinarily in favour of all civil liberties, but even I can see that what is needed is a huge act of collectivism. 

 

From what I observed her in Germany, it all worked pretty well, say, the first 2 or 3 weeks back in March. I reckon the reason was simply, shock and fear did the job. Now as people became used to it, and many probably not having any severe causes in their familie, they got cocky again and start complaining about inconveniences and stuff, looking to blame others for it. Business as usual, IOW.

 

And of course, the majority always seems to have a problem accepting the simplest of truths: **** happens, for no particular reason, with no sinister plans or secret organisations behind it, it just happens. But that's apparently hard to digest, there always has to be reasons, someone to blame, and so on. Enter nutcase conspiracies...

[pdac]

There is a way to be 100% 'safe' on their Covid-19 testing, and the evidence is clear they are not at this point.

 

 

Ahem, no. It's never 100 percent, even if you test every hour. Things do go wrong, you know.

 

They could minimize the risk further from what they have now, though, that's true.

 

You can be statistically so close to 100% that the possibility of being wrong is so remote as to not be worthy of consideration. But you can never reach 100%.

 

(even a dead person can be infectious for a while)

Edited by pdac, 23 October 2020 - 10:08.

[absinthedude]

From what I observed her in Germany, it all worked pretty well, say, the first 2 or 3 weeks back in March. I reckon the reason was simply, shock and fear did the job. Now as people became used to it, and many probably not having any severe causes in their familie, they got cocky again and start complaining about inconveniences and stuff, looking to blame others for it. Business as usual, IOW.

 

And of course, the majority always seems to have a problem accepting the simplest of truths: **** happens, for no particular reason, with no sinister plans or secret organisations behind it, it just happens. But that's apparently hard to digest, there always has to be reasons, someone to blame, and so on. Enter nutcase conspiracies...

 

It is similar here in the UK. "Lockdown" worked well because the majority of people were both scared and sensible. We followed the rules. People even enjoyed queuing outside the supermarket in the warm weather and having fewer people inside the shop. Then I would point out "this won't be as much fun in November when it's rain and wind and we've got less time because we're back at work"....and people would genuinely question whether the virus would still be here in November. It had simply not occurred that things wouldn't be totally back to normal within 2-3 months. The world has changed forever, and we don't yet even know in what ways.

 

And yes, fatigue has set in. I see people posting on facebook "Boris won't stop me hugging my family when we have a party next weekend" and so on. And that's how it's spreading. People saw things got better - and they really did - and now are surprised..."Why are the numbers going up?"

 

It's all rather simple to anyone who actually takes notice. But I sadly suspect a lot of people don't follow the news at all. And I fully agree people look for some great meaning to things....and that's where the insane conspiracies come in. There's also something enticing about the message "come here and learn the Truth, the Truth that they're trying to cover up...learn something everyone else doesn't know....". Usually it's fairly harmless but in this case it's literally killing people. 

 

Regarding Lance, do we have a full and accurate timeline of what happened? What symptoms he had and when he was tested, and the results of all the tests? My understanding from skimming through this thread and elsewhere is that he had a stomach upset and "the runs" which are not usually covid symptoms....he felt under the weather but didn't have the class "covid cough", for example. He tested negative a couple of times too - though we know that's not entirely fool proof. 

[Imperial]

I think the responses to my "100%" comments are either misplaced or have misconstrued what I was saying/trying to say. I ain't saying that you can be 100% resistant to Covid-19, and I would argue it is obvious I was not suggesting that. But hey ho, this is RC after all.

 

F1 CAN be 100% "safe" in that it could test people every single day of the race weekend as a minimum. They could in fact mandate that all drivers and team personnel take a test at home every single day between races too. Anyone who knows anything about international motorsport will be all too aware that the dreaded anti-doping testers can come knocking at your private home any time, without warning, to request a urine sample from you. So there isn't an argument that testing cannot be done at home at any time.

 

And the financial side is complete nonsense, there is more than enough money kicking about in F1 to make the above possible.

 

If splitting hairs is the order of the day though, then we can stop that by me requesting that you please just delete from your mind every use of the word "safe" by me and replace it with "responsible".

Edited by Imperial, 23 October 2020 - 13:25.

[Clrnc]

Just have to say this, RP is becoming more and more detestable these days

[Marklar]

lol

https://twitter.com/...1789580289?s=09

[ARTGP]

 What a savage. Cherish him. 

Edited by ARTGP, 23 October 2020 - 13:28.

[cpbell]

Indeed. It is not ingrained in human genes or evolution. It is a cultural thing, and in Western Europe and the USA we have become increasingly selfish and self-centred. I am no socialist and am ordinarily in favour of all civil liberties, but even I can see that what is needed is a huge act of collectivism. 

 

It is rather galling to see people swanning around saying they "choose not to believe" in masks or even the virus itself or will "take my own risks" when most of us are still making huge sacrifices in our daily lives at great emotional (and sometimes financial) expense. 

 

The concept of quarantine is quite alien to the average Brit and probably most Europeans. We've had free movement of foodstuffs, plants and livestock within the EU for nearly 30 years. A flight to San Francisco where one is "greeted" with dogs sniffing for contraband apples is quite baffling. We have zero concept of this...though there are some invasive species of plant which are controlled they don't affect most people. The UK literally has no concept of a state imposed curfew because we've not had one in anything like living memory. Not even during WWII. The very idea of politicians having any say whatsoever in where we can travel, stay and live is quite alien to British people. But again, this is a huge act of collectivism and honestly it doesn't take more than basic level knowledge of how this virus is spread to understand why we need to do these things temporarily. 

 

F1 needs to set a standard. People look up to sports stars, musicians, actors etc.....and if they're breaking the rules (Charles Leclerc, I am pointing at you) that does lead the average person to think "If he can, why can't I?". Money and fame buys a lot of privilege but it should not allow one to break the law nor Covid protocol. Especially the latter as it is for the safety of everyone. 

 

There is a huge difference between a driver deciding to fly to a race by helicopter and accept the personal risk and breaking covid related rules. Breaking of Covid protocol/rules risks the lives and wellbeing of those round you.....maybe someone on the same plane, your limo driver, your team colleagues, your family, the fan you chat with, the person in the supermarket...people who probably are following all the rules and doing nothing wrong. It is not in any way, shape or form a case of simply assessing your own personal risk - unless you're going to isolate for 10-14 days after each rule infraction. 

With power comes responsibility.

[cpbell]

lol

https://twitter.com/...1789580289?s=09

The more I see of him, the more I appreciate his way of doing things.

[Garndell]

Stroll should avoid the Brown Bomber and instead stick to the Frankenstein. 

[Risil]

The more I see of him, the more I appreciate his way of doing things.

 

Millionaires trolling billionaires! That's what we watch F1 for!

[w00dy]

Millionaires trolling billionaires! That's what we watch F1 for!

 

Any comment from Horner? He can be fun...

Or maybe Herr Wolff can rush to defend the Strolls' honor.

[ARTGP]

Only Stroll money could have brought Dr. Seuss back from the dead....so Zak has an extremely valid point 

Edited by ARTGP, 23 October 2020 - 15:46.

[Myrvold]

 

Racing Point F1 boss Otmar Szafnauer claimed on Thursday that the team "test more than any other business on the planet - not just Formula 1 teams, any other business on the planet".

Brown pondered how it was possible for the team to be certain of such a claim, and stressed the importance of transparency between everyone in the F1 paddock to ensure the virus is kept under control.

"I don't know what everyone's testing protocols are," Brown said.

"I know how much we test. I've just heard that Racing Point tests more than any company in the planet. Not sure how you substantiate that.

 

I've been "damaged" from certain other people that get's quite a lot of attention in the world.

But whenever I read that someone has claimed "We do X more/better than any other in the word/on the planet - Not just in comparison to what we usually compare against, but anything, wherever". My BS-alert is screaming worse than an airstrike-alarm.