179 replies to this topic

[pdac]

Promoters should have the freedom to tweak the weekend schedule to help make back some money. Allow variance in race distance and FP sessions to be consendes or not to better accomodate support series and find more helpful TV slots.

 

No, that's not stuff for the promoter to decide. That's really stuff for the commercial rights holder (which is kind of what Carey is on about as he's discovered that even the commercial rights holder doesn't have the freedom to do this).

[r4mses]

Promoters should have the freedom to tweak the weekend schedule to help make back some money. Allow variance in race distance and FP sessions to be consendes or not to better accomodate support series and find more helpful TV slots.

 

you cant be serious. that'd just end up in some total mess.

[richardprice]

The interesting point (though, not something we didn't know) is that this is the guy from Liberty saying that he can't change things the way he wants. That's Liberty the people that own the commercial rights, have the ear of the FIA and SHOULD be able to tell the teams exactly what they are going to put up with.

Its the teams which make F1, not the FIA nor Liberty - we watch the teams, we dont watch idiots from Liberty doing anything.

People seem to forget that - the FIA and Liberty hold a lot of power, but at the end of the day its fake power because without teams they dont have a sport, but the teams can have a sport without either the FIA or Liberty. The commercial rights *entirely* depend on the teams, there is no other revenue source than the teams doing what the teams do on track.

So no, Liberty shouldnt be able to tell the teams “exactly what they are going to put up with” - the teams should have all the power, and Liberty should simply be their agent.

[Rodaknee]

Its the teams which make F1, not the FIA nor Liberty - we watch the teams, we dont watch idiots from Liberty doing anything.

People seem to forget that - the FIA and Liberty hold a lot of power, but at the end of the day its fake power because without teams they dont have a sport, but the teams can have a sport without either the FIA or Liberty. The commercial rights *entirely* depend on the teams, there is no other revenue source than the teams doing what the teams do on track.

So no, Liberty shouldnt be able to tell the teams “exactly what they are going to put up with” - the teams should have all the power, and Liberty should simply be their agent.

The teams lost their power the day Bernie stole the rights and grabbed all the loot.  When he put F1 into debt - more than once - the teams were completely stuffed, especially when Bernie played one team off against the rest.  The teams were given a little bit of their power back, but Liberty have put a stop to that from next season.

 

There's an old story that Bernie gave the teams an opportunity to buy into what became FOM and they would have become his partners.  He may have done, but all of the team owners knew he couldn't be trusted in a business deal, he had a long history of not keeping his promises and putting 'partners' out of business, for example Colin Seeley.  I'm convinced that had any team become involved in FOM, Mosley would have passed a rule forcing them to sell their shares, as the pair worked together to stitch up everyone who had an interest in F1, who didn't go along with the Bernie.

[richardprice]

The teams lost their power the day Bernie stole the rights and grabbed all the loot.  When he put F1 into debt - more than once - the teams were completely stuffed, especially when Bernie played one team off against the rest.  The teams were given a little bit of their power back, but Liberty have put a stop to that from next season.
 
There's an old story that Bernie gave the teams an opportunity to buy into what became FOM and they would have become his partners.  He may have done, but all of the team owners knew he couldn't be trusted in a business deal, he had a long history of not keeping his promises and putting 'partners' out of business, for example Colin Seeley.  I'm convinced that had any team become involved in FOM, Mosley would have passed a rule forcing them to sell their shares, as the pair worked together to stitch up everyone who had an interest in F1, who didn't go along with the Bernie.

But again, all you are pointing to in your reply are entities that generate *nothing* without the teams - if the teams left, thats it, revenue zero. Sure, Liberty would try with some other teams, but that would just see some racing with vastly reduced draw and take several seasons to reestablish itself, circuits would walk away because no name teams wouldnt draw crowds, viewerships drop through the floor so Sky etc demand refunds etc etc.

The very fact that Liberty could buy its way into our vocabulary shows just how not-core they actually are.

And yet we have people on this forum that insist the power sits the other way...

[Burtros]

But again, all you are pointing to in your reply are entities that generate *nothing* without the teams - if the teams left, thats it, revenue zero. Sure, Liberty would try with some other teams, but that would just see some racing with vastly reduced draw and take several seasons to reestablish itself, circuits would walk away because no name teams wouldnt draw crowds, viewerships drop through the floor so Sky etc demand refunds etc etc.

The very fact that Liberty could buy its way into our vocabulary shows just how not-core they actually are.

And yet we have people on this forum that insist the power sits the other way...

Teams can’t work together and never will. The hold no power as a result.

Every time they fall for the money of divide and conquer tactics.

Edited by Burtros, 17 October 2020 - 08:34.

[Nemo1965]

I would go the other way. Lengthen the races to 400 km. But I know, that's just me. I don't mind spending an extra half hour watching a longer race. I know this is a minority view point, but I like the older idea of F1 being a combination of speed and stamina. 

 

Another advantage would be more racing and less talking heads in a given race coverage from start to finish. win-win

 

Man, I would really advise you to get some form of digital tv or streaming. I hate talking heads (especially of celebs) and I always watch the race half an hour delayed. You can fast forward past the bluster, the worthless pit-reporter (in my country) and any non-relevant shite. 

 

I like your idea about 400 km races, by the way... Would be interesting in terms of fuel strategies, tires, and so forth...

[PayasYouRace]

Definitely do not shorten the races.

 

I would be interested in keeping the 190 mile race for most circuits, but extending it to perhaps 225 miles for tracks where a 190 mile race is often done in significantly under 90 minutes....Monza, Spa, Silverstone for example. I know that means cars with bigger fuel tanks, but it also means no more 75 minute grands prix. 

 

Dare I say it, just have a timed race. 90 mins + 1 lap?

[jcbc3]

Dare I say it, just have a timed race. 90 mins + 1 lap?

 

Ok, I'm willing to compromise.

 

117 minutes + 1 lap. That will keep us below the two hour maximum and still have long races.

[pdac]

Its the teams which make F1, not the FIA nor Liberty - we watch the teams, we dont watch idiots from Liberty doing anything.

People seem to forget that - the FIA and Liberty hold a lot of power, but at the end of the day its fake power because without teams they dont have a sport, but the teams can have a sport without either the FIA or Liberty. The commercial rights *entirely* depend on the teams, there is no other revenue source than the teams doing what the teams do on track.

So no, Liberty shouldnt be able to tell the teams “exactly what they are going to put up with” - the teams should have all the power, and Liberty should simply be their agent.

 

Not at all. The teams are business operations. Their businesses are reliant on Liberty. Without Liberty, they would not exist. They've had more than one opportunity to have a stake in the commercial side, but they all preferred not to. So the whole show is owned by Liberty and the teams all rely on Liberty to make them money.

 

It's no different to other forms of entertainment, though. It's very rare that the actors in a production own the production. They are just employed. Same with the F1 teams. They are effectively employed by Liberty to put on the show. Liberty sell the show and collect the money and, in turn, pay a cut to the teams. That's how it works.

[Rodaknee]

Not at all. The teams are business operations. Their businesses are reliant on Liberty. Without Liberty, they would not exist. They've had more than one opportunity to have a stake in the commercial side, but they all preferred not to. So the whole show is owned by Liberty and the teams all rely on Liberty to make them money.

 

It's no different to other forms of entertainment, though. It's very rare that the actors in a production own the production. They are just employed. Same with the F1 teams. They are effectively employed by Liberty to put on the show. Liberty sell the show and collect the money and, in turn, pay a cut to the teams. That's how it works.

Tripe.  Many other sports are owned/run by the teams involved.  UK Premier Division football for example.

[jjcale]

First they came for the grid girls ....

 

Just thinking about this some more .... this is like a cultural revolution since these guys came .... we now have BLM ceremonies before the start - what the actual ****??!! ... who imagined that this would be happening a few years ago?  Imagine if someone said "lets have a prayer at the start of the race - you know, to pray no one gets injured" these guys would have a melt down .... Liberty are genuine and sincere woke types who think that they are being "good people", and in some respects they are .... but the problem with these types of people is that they dont have any respect for anyone else's opinion - they just see your opposing view as an obstacle to be overcome - and they view "progress" as an end in itself to be worked towards with semi-religious dedication .... so we have to be very careful with them - they are not racers, they dont actually understand racing and they are committed to "change" for its own sake.... the change they bring may be good - or it may be bad ... but the only thing certain with this lot is that you will get change ... and whether you like it or not. 

 

Dominicalli is and has always been a yes man .... he will do what they want, and be his normal cheerful self about it ... but for the sake of his long term reputation and legacy, Ross Brawn needs to get out of there. He was passed over for the top job, for whatever reason ... he should just use that as his excuse and exit with honour. 

Edited by jjcale, 17 October 2020 - 10:43.

[GlenWatkins]

First they came for the grid girls ....

 

Exactly JJ!  Unfortunately today's cancel culture won't allow it.

 

I am in agreement to be flexible and try new ideas however, I side with many in this thread who have said that there are bigger issues to address other than qualifying.  Carey has floated reverse grids as an example, and it's a terrible one.  There would be no incentive to be the fastest in qualifying, it would end up being a race to be the slowest.  So is a qualifying race.  F1 is not short track USAC dirt track racing.  What's next, NASCAR-like stage racing?  NFW!

 

I think everyone can agree that all we fans want is better racing.  When I look back to when I got interested in racing, it was when the drivers' skill mattered more than the car they were driving.  If it were up to me I'd do away with the complex PU's, aero, sensors, radios, computers and bring back the clutch/manual transmission, and a simple steering wheel.

Edited by GlenWatkins, 17 October 2020 - 10:47.

[pRy]

Just thinking about this some more .... this is like a cultural revolution since these guys came .... we now have BLM ceremonies before the start - what the actual ****??!! ... who imagined that this would be happening a few years ago?

 

Remember it's not just F1 who made a decision to pay respect to that cause. Sports people all over the world have taken the knee before events. F1 isn't unique in that respect.

[jjcale]

Remember it's not just F1 who made a decision to pay respect to that cause. Sports people all over the world have taken the knee before events. F1 isn't unique in that respect.

 

Your first sentence is true .... but I dont know that any sport did this outside the USA/Canada (and maybe English Football - but I'm not sure). 

 

And are they still doing it?

 

And did any other sport make a ceremony out of it with special Tshirts and all? Forgive me I dont really watch any other popular sport, anymore.

 

Plus most F1 fans are not in countries that have the american issue and its hard to believe that they are so concerned about the issue that they want a ceremony to be incorporated into the pre-race build up. 

 

I am not raising this to discuss the merits of it (there is another thread for that), my point is to show that these liberty guys dont mind riding roughshod over what anybody else thinks - and they are not genuinely interested in anybody else's views except as something to be overcome in pursuit of "change"..... which is what Carey said, but much more diplomatically.   

[Burtros]

Tripe. Many other sports are owned/run by the teams involved. UK Premier Division football for example.

You couldn’t have used a worse example!! Hilarious!

How’s all that being going for them all this week?

Just like in F1, they can’t agree anything because they all have their own self interest at heart.

[jjcale]

Exactly JJ!  Unfortunately today's cancel culture won't allow it.

 

I am in agreement to be flexible and try new ideas however, I side with many in this thread who have said that there are bigger issues to address other than qualifying.  Carey has floated reverse grids as an example, and it's a terrible one.  There would be no incentive to be the fastest in qualifying, it would end up being a race to be the slowest.  So is a qualifying race.  F1 is not short track USAC dirt track racing.  What's next, NASCAR-like stage racing?  NFW!

 

I think everyone can agree that all we fans want is better racing.  When I look back to when I got interested in racing, it was when the drivers' skill mattered more than the car they were driving.  If it were up to me I'd do away with the complex PU's, aero, sensors, radios, computers and bring back the clutch/manual transmission, and a simple steering wheel.

 

All of what you say is obvious to any long term fan of the sport or of racing in general .... the problem is that Liberty are not such people and they hellbent on "change".... I dont mind "change" from people who love and understand racing - but I am very wary of anything that affects the sport in a fundamental way coming out of Liberty.... let them stick to the marketing and promotional work, and leave the sport to the sportsmen. 

 

Edit - if they dont think that they are making enough profit from F1, there is another option to "spicing up the show"...  they can sell it to someone who will appreciate the $1bn or so every year that F1 makes.  

 

And whilst I am at it Michael Masi needs to go ... he is going to cause someone to get hurt. 

/   

Edited by jjcale, 17 October 2020 - 11:09.

[Rodaknee]

You couldn’t have used a worse example!! Hilarious!

How’s all that being going for them all this week?

Just like in F1, they can’t agree anything because they all have their own self interest at heart.

 

They are still taking all the money made from broadcasting and ticket sales.  They might be arguing, but it's amongst themselves, they don't have a little man in there with a big spoon, stirring up trouble and skimming the profits.

 

 

 

 

[pRy]

Your first sentence is true .... but I dont know that any sport did this outside the USA/Canada (and maybe English Football - but I'm not sure). 

 

And are they still doing it?

 

And did any other sport make a ceremony out of it with special Tshirts and all? Forgive me I dont really watch any other popular sport, anymore.

 

Plus most F1 fans are not in countries that have the american issue and its hard to believe that they are so concerned about the issue that they want a ceremony to be incorporated into the pre-race build up. 

 

I am not raising this to discuss the merits of it (there is another thread for that), my point is to show that these liberty guys dont mind riding roughshod over what anybody else thinks - and they are not genuinely interested in anybody else's views except as something to be overcome in pursuit of "change"..... which is what Carey said, but much more diplomatically.   

 

Lots of photos of the various sports and what they did here: https://edition.cnn....ests/index.html - As you can see it's reach was vast and varied. In the Premier League they wore special BLM shirts and took the knee before kick off. This has continued. https://www.skysport...-21-opening-day

 

Racism isn't an "American issue" it's a global issue. 

 

I've personally not seen evidence Liberty are riding roughshod. They have a controlling interest in F1 and so technically it's their sport to do as they please. But I've always felt they were on good terms with the team owners and have appointed people like Ross and Stefano for informed decision making. If they brought some dude over from the NFL to run F1 then alarm bells might start ringing. Although I don't think you have to be from F1 to understand how it works. But regardless I'm not too concerned. End of the day Liberty want to make money. And entertaining sports make money. Currently F1 is far too predictable. There are two solutions to that problem... mix things up via the rules or mix things up via gimmicks. I hope the first option is preferred but they've been trying to make that option work for years now with little success. I can see why they're open to fresh ideas.

Edited by pRy, 17 October 2020 - 11:49.

[jjcale]

Lots of photos of the various sports and what they did here: https://edition.cnn....ests/index.html - As you can see it's reach was vast and varied. In the Premier League they wore special BLM shirts and took the knee before kick off. This has continued. https://www.skysport...-21-opening-day

 

Racism isn't an "American issue" it's a global issue. 

 

I've personally not seen evidence Liberty are riding roughshod. They have a controlling interest in F1 and so technically it's their sport to do as they please. But I've always felt they were on good terms with the team owners and have appointed people like Ross and Stefano for informed decision making. If they brought some dude over from the NFL to run F1 then alarm bells might start ringing. Although I don't think you have to be from F1 to understand how it works. But regardless I'm not too concerned. End of the day Liberty want to make money. And entertaining sports make money. Currently F1 is far too predictable. There are two solutions to that problem... mix things up via the rules or mix things up via gimmicks. I hope the first option is preferred but they've been trying to make that option work for years now with little success. I can see why they're open to fresh ideas.

 

They ran roughshod over grid girls ... 

 

And outside the USA/Canada I see only a couple of UK, Champions league and cricket in Trinidad. There was a guy in germany doing a wildcat thing by himself so I dont count that... I am talking about commemorations sponsored by the governing bodies. .... I am not seeing a global movement - I Am seeing something restricted to a certain cultural portion of the world - the north atlantic part of the anglosphere.... and that makes sense as its not a movement against "racism", it is something sparked by unfair treatment of blacks by the police in the USA.... this is a very local issue. The USA is the worlds most powerful country so the issue is projected by global media to all parts, but people in other places have their own concerns and the fate of George Floyd is not uppermost in their minds. 

 

And also - "racism" is not a problem everywhere. The kind of antiblack racism that is the cause and focus of the wave of protests in certain countries does not exist everywhere... this is mostly a US/UK/Canada phenomenon - and to the extent it exists in other places it is because of the influence of these countries. Most people in the world have never met a black person - all they know about blacks comes from the US/UK media so if they are somehow racist against blacks this is the cause of it. 

 

Of the countries where F1 races, I saw only three - four if I am being generous - being represented. Most of the drivers are not from these countries. I doubt they feel strongly about american policing policies - or even about antiblack racism generally. Most of them are not from former imperialist or colonialist powers. What do DK, AG, KR, VB, SV, KM, CL, AA, DR, SP and CS have to do with this? - and the same for the people of the lands whose flags they wear? And what about all the other countries of Europe with no black populations to speak of where there are F1 fans... and all the countries of Asia ... why do fans there need to sit through all this just to watch some racing.... this has got nothing to do with them.... did Liberty ask them before it made this change? Was any polling done? ... Liberty rode roughshod. They didnt ask anyone .... they figured it was "the right thing" to do and they did it. ... if a guy like me is put off can you imagine how a random guy in Japan, or Hungary or India feels ... he must be thinking WTF does this have to do with racing? 

 

Also - Liberty does not own the sport, they only own the commercial rights - they are just a promoter. The FIA "owns" the sport. ... I assume the FIA has gone along with Liberty on on all this but its pretty clear that Liberty are in the drivers seat. The only time we heard anything from the FIA was its objection to LH's Breona Taylor shirt - so clearly it has some limits to what it has agreed to ... but I am sorry to say I am not well informed on the FIA position, which could well be my fault and not the FIA's failure to communicate.  

 

I suspect that Liberty will have a bit more opposition to their other changes which actually affect the racing ... as more people in the sport will actually care about that. 

 

For me personally, I welcome changes that help to allow closer racing (of cars that are close to each other in performance) - and I dont want to see the racing spiced up beyond that - if one car is better than another so be it - I dont want a spec series ... but if there is a very dominant team as there is now, a few small tweaks should be make in the rules here or there to somewhat negate their advantage ... beyond that I dont have any firm views on what changes should be made... and I am open minded but not easily persuaded.  

Edited by jjcale, 17 October 2020 - 12:51.

[Clatter]

Its the teams which make F1, not the FIA nor Liberty - we watch the teams, we dont watch idiots from Liberty doing anything.

People seem to forget that - the FIA and Liberty hold a lot of power, but at the end of the day its fake power because without teams they dont have a sport, but the teams can have a sport without either the FIA or Liberty. The commercial rights *entirely* depend on the teams, there is no other revenue source than the teams doing what the teams do on track.

So no, Liberty shouldnt be able to tell the teams “exactly what they are going to put up with” - the teams should have all the power, and Liberty should simply be their agent.

 

The teams had the chance to go their own way back in 2009, but they soon fell back under the sports umbrella. They know that without F1 they will lose money. FIA and Liberty have the tracks, the TV rights etc. etc. the teams have nothing if they walk away.

[pdac]

Tripe.  Many other sports are owned/run by the teams involved.  UK Premier Division football for example.

 

I don't disagree that it would not be possible. I'm simply saying that this is the way it is now. Thanks to Max and Bernie, the commercial rights holder has the rights for years and years to come. So it's impossible for the teams in F1 to take the commercial rights themselves unless they come to a deal and buy them from Liberty (which I can't see ever happening). So the show is Liberty's and no one else's.

Edited by pdac, 17 October 2020 - 15:25.

[Jim Thurman]

How much air time did your races get on world wide TV?  How many thousands of spectators travelled hundreds of miles to watch?  Did anyone really care who won?

 

Not necessarily his events, but the major events in those forms of racing (Chili Bowl, Knoxville Nationals) have been televised nationally in the U.S., one of them on free television, the other via pay-per-view, and those events annually attract thousands of spectators that travelled hundreds, even thousands of miles to watch. The same applies to some of the other events loki mentioned, even if those weren't televised live or PPV. Some receive national television coverage on a taped basis. Many events not quite on the level as those attract spectators from hundreds of miles, like the WoO events.

 

So, yes, people care who wins.

 

As loki mentioned, inverting the field in U.S. short track racing is common and it dates back to the 1930s or 1940s. It used to be full invert until technology made passing more difficult, leading to the pill draw for partial invert.

[PayasYouRace]

Ok, I'm willing to compromise.

 

117 minutes + 1 lap. That will keep us below the two hour maximum and still have long races.

 

The number of minutes isn't my concern. But a lot of the overriding feeling is that the fast races are too short, so why not just have timed races and then you'd always get the same duration of racing.

[Nemo1965]

Just thinking about this some more .... this is like a cultural revolution since these guys came .... we now have BLM ceremonies before the start - what the actual ****??!! ... who imagined that this would be happening a few years ago?  Imagine if someone said "lets have a prayer at the start of the race - you know, to pray no one gets injured" these guys would have a melt down .... Liberty are genuine and sincere woke types who think that they are being "good people", and in some respects they are .... but the problem with these types of people is that they dont have any respect for anyone else's opinion - they just see your opposing view as an obstacle to be overcome - and they view "progress" as an end in itself to be worked towards with semi-religious dedication .... so we have to be very careful with them - they are not racers, they dont actually understand racing and they are committed to "change" for its own sake.... the change they bring may be good - or it may be bad ... but the only thing certain with this lot is that you will get change ... and whether you like it or not. 

 

Dominicalli is and has always been a yes man .... he will do what they want, and be his normal cheerful self about it ... but for the sake of his long term reputation and legacy, Ross Brawn needs to get out of there. He was passed over for the top job, for whatever reason ... he should just use that as his excuse and exit with honour. 

 

Refreshing post, JJ. That is what bugs me and my wife about every political or social discussion, (she could not care less about motorsport), is that it is clear that often there are no real arguments put forward to make a certain decision, but that one feels 'something has to be done' has overtaken the decision makers. The decision to stop with grid-girls was done with zero due diligence. It was just a pavlov-reaction to the #metoo-events. (PS: My wife DID care about that. She thought that many grid-girls would just feel robbed from a nice gig. And afterwards some research showed me she was right.')

 

Regarding rules beyond history: it does not matter if Carey or other bosses in F1 have different opinions about F1-racing than what I wil call for simplicity the anoraks. It matters if they can state an argument that is based on putting forward arguments and construct an opinion from there.

 

Take reversed grids. If I am not mistaken, most F1-fans (even the superficial ones) follow a. drivers (most), b. teams (fewer) and c.technology (minority). So how would reversed grids cater to the needs of the fans, mmm? If Carey puts forward reversed grids as a good idea, I expect him to say (or I would respect him if he said it): 'Listen, people are not interested in fair racing, or that the best driver wins, or who they perceive as the best driver wins. They want surprising results, they want drama, perhaps even undeserved wins, for people they can then deride as 'too lucky'. 

 

I would not agree with him... but at least there would be a solid argumentation for reversed grids.

Edited by Nemo1965, 17 October 2020 - 19:15.

[pdac]

Refreshing post, JJ. That is what bugs me and my wife about every political or social discussion, (she could not care less about motorsport), is that it is clear that often there are no real arguments put forward to make a certain decision, but that one feels 'something has to be done' has overtaken the decision makers. The decision to stop with grid-girls was done with zero due diligence. It was just a pavlov-reaction to the #metoo-events. (PS: My wife DID care about that. She thought that many grid-girls would just feel robbed from a nice gig. And afterwards some research showed me she was right.')

 

Regarding rules beyond history: it does not matter if Carey or other bosses in F1 have different opinions about F1-racing than what I wil call for simplicity the anoraks. It matters if they can state an argument that is based on putting forward arguments and construct an opinion from there.

 

Take reversed grids. If I am not mistaken, most F1-fans (even the superficial ones) follow a. drivers (most), b. teams (fewer) and c.technology (minority). So how would reversed grids cater to the needs of the fans, mmm? If Carey puts forward reversed grids as a good idea, I expect him to say (or I would respect him if he said it): 'Listen, people are not interested in fair racing, or that the best driver wins, or who they perceive as the best driver wins. They want surprising results, they want drama, perhaps even undeserved wins, for people they can then deride as 'too lucky'. 

 

I would not agree with him... but at least there would be a solid argumentation for reversed grids.

 

That's the modern approach to marketing. It's all very shallow. Just go with whatever is on trend at the moment and pretend you are fully aligned and engaged. Then when something else is on trend, move with that. Most of all, don't be seen as being 'yesterday'. Especially if being 'yesterday' implies that you might be associated with anything that is now considered to be apolitical or abhorrent by the vocal masses.

Edited by pdac, 17 October 2020 - 20:46.

[Atreiu]

you cant be serious. that'd just end up in some total mess.

I could not be more serious. Excessive homogeneity (sp?) is one of F1 problems and a reason all weekends looks the same with very little variance.

[Gyan]

Use aggregate practice times to determine a grid for a sprint race on Saturday. Then for the Sunday race, the grid lines up based on the results of the Saturday sprint race. No need for reverse grids and you're not being "straightjacketed" by F1's history either. Everyone wins.

[Rinehart]

Tripe.  Many other sports are owned/run by the teams involved.  UK Premier Division football for example.

 

I love the way you jump in with your expert punchlines. Keep it up. 

[Rinehart]

They are still taking all the money made from broadcasting and ticket sales.  They might be arguing, but it's amongst themselves, they don't have a little man in there with a big spoon, stirring up trouble and skimming the profits.

 

You may not have noticed but football teams race at their own "tracks", they're called stadiums, hence a slight difference in the promotional structure. Broadcast revenues are shared more greedily but there is no evidence that this has empowered the teams to work more cohesively together than in F1. Only last week several teams threatened to walk and collectively they offered half of Harry Maguires transfer fee to save the entire pyramid of football during Covid. So I'd suggest this isn't your mastermind subject.