Member
Posted 27 October 2020 - 09:04
Anyone interested in Jaguar history will probably enjoy - and indeed marvel at - a remarkable story featured in the latest Australian Jaguar magazine, edited by Les Hughes. It's available here:
In essence the first prototype XK120, always considered to have been long-since broken up - does in fact (yes I know sceptics will say "Oh yeah?") - survive!
It's well worth a close read. Extraordinary.
DCN
Member
Posted 28 October 2020 - 12:22
As I am not going to subscribe to Jaguar magazine, I will wait to take a peek at it on the shelf at W H Smiths. I am intrigued how the editor of the magazine seems to know more about a car than the people who own it. I suspect another full restoration around the original light switch, but I may be overly cynical!
Racing Sims Forum Host
Posted 28 October 2020 - 12:40
Member
Posted 28 October 2020 - 14:51
As I am not going to subscribe to Jaguar magazine, I will wait to take a peek at it on the shelf at W H Smiths. I am intrigued how the editor of the magazine seems to know more about a car than the people who own it. I suspect another full restoration around the original light switch, but I may be overly cynical!
At least only the one original has been found.
Member
Posted 28 October 2020 - 17:32
Now come on... There are times to be sceptical, times to be dismissive, and times to condemn - but there are also occasional times to withhold judgement until (with a background degree of reasonable knowledge and interest) you have actually studied the story and the evidence it presents...
DCN
Member
Posted 28 October 2020 - 17:48
Fair comment, Doug, but it seems we must pay to access the information. I looked in Smith's but they only had Jaguar World and Classic Jaguar magazine so no help there. Maybe some kind subscriber to this journal will regale us with the facts in due course.
Member
Posted 29 October 2020 - 20:05
Aaah - of course I overlooked the characteristic internet habitué's sense of entitlement - that access to everything must be free... Or have I misunderstood?
DCN
Member
Posted 29 October 2020 - 20:56
Aaah - of course I overlooked the characteristic internet habitué's sense of entitlement - that access to everything must be free... Or have I misunderstood?
DCN
No...
Member
Posted 30 October 2020 - 05:17
I dare say a hardcopy edition of (Australian) 'Jaguar magazine' #204 will be a while off arriving in the UK. If it works on the same surface mail scenario we Aussies wait for the English mags to arrive then you might be waiting until mid/late January (or thereabouts, as I have just picked up September's issues of C&SC and Octane) or skip the cafe coffee for a day and support the getting rare motoring publisher by paying a few quid or bucks and check it online.
Roger L was kind enough to tip me off that this issue has a Ron Flockhart piece, but after 3 newsagent visits in the last couple of days it appears it hasn't even hit the shelves in Oz.(but it can't be too far away).
Stephen
Member
Posted 30 October 2020 - 10:31
As I am not going to subscribe to Jaguar magazine, I will wait to take a peek at it on the shelf at W H Smiths. I am intrigued how the editor of the magazine seems to know more about a car than the people who own it. I suspect another full restoration around the original light switch, but I may be overly cynical!
The digital version of #204 is now available for AUD 1.95 : https://www.jaguarma...on-204-digital/
Also issue 199+201 at 1.95 combined, the latter feature the story of the Ecurie Ecosse LM69 "XJ13" replica.
Member
Posted 30 October 2020 - 15:55
Aaah - of course I overlooked the characteristic internet habitué's sense of entitlement - that access to everything must be free... Or have I misunderstood?
DCN
Are you familiar with the term 'clickbait'?
Subscribe to our magazine to get the full story.....that turns out to be a non-event. Of course, this might be the characteristic internet habitue's sense of cynicism.
Member
Posted 30 October 2020 - 21:12
Apparently the first prototype and show car was LHD, ch.no 670001. The second prototype was RHD, ch.660001.
Just to add to the confusion 670001 was converted to RHD and later exported to the US, where it still is.
660001 was the second prototype built and not the first as many historians thought, including Andrew Whyte.
So the LHD car thought to be second prototype was in fact the first, and is still in existence in the US, as RHD....
One would however expect such a much hyped discovery and article would have plenty of current photographs
taken exclusively for the article showing all unique prototype features, signs of LHD and RHD conversion colour changes etc. etc.
But amazingly there was not a single one, just some old photos and a few not so old ones, taken from quite a distance.
Maybe I missed something and there will be a part 2? Still I need to read through a couple of more times and make notes as I go along
to make sure I get all the various changes of colour and controls etc. right. It can be a bit confusing and one needs to go back many times.
There is a quite readable article on Ron Flockhart in the same issue though.
For AUD 1.95 it wasn't too bad + one get a comprehensive knowledge of how many various jag specialists there are in OZ.
No watch adverts though 
)
Member
Posted 31 October 2020 - 02:38
Myhinpaa, for a liitle more you might wish to see part 1 that appears in issue #203 That issue came out in August, also has a piece on XKC 037 that in Australia was the Boorman/ Gardner/Leaton Matich C Type.
Stephen
Member
Posted 31 October 2020 - 13:44
Thank you, gentlemen. It sounds like it was a mare's nest after all.
Member
Posted 03 November 2020 - 09:05
a complex article and we are looking at it in detail but needs serious research to confirm what is said.
Member
Posted 03 November 2020 - 22:42
Myhinpaa, for a liitle more you might wish to see part 1 that appears in issue #203 That issue came out in August, also has a piece on XKC 037 that in Australia was the Boorman/ Gardner/Leaton Matich C Type.
Stephen
Unfortunately #203 doesn't seem to be available from them? I wish indeed that this is the first prototype 670001, but could see no proof of it.
The assumption that 660001 was the 2nd prototype, 670001's RHD conversion before it was shipped out to the US, the colour change etc. might all be
correct but I'm puzzled why there were no current and detailed photos of this in the article documenting it.
(Regarding 660001 they're excused, because that's really gone, or is it!?)
The only thing that indicates the car discovered is a pre-production car from the most recent photos (from 30 years ago?) in the article was the square windscreen frame.
I see they have updated the news article addressing the "doubters" now, by adding yet another old photo of the car taken from a distance, side view this time
a complex article and we are looking at it in detail but needs serious research to confirm what is said.
I will look forward to the results of your research, you should be in a good position to carry out that. I hope for a dedicated article in the same or some other publication then.
Member
Posted 05 November 2020 - 03:48
Myhinpaa, might be worth your while to contact Jaguar mag direct then.
Les Hughes is the editor/publisher, but contact listed in issue 203 is via bronwen@jaguarmagazine.com
I still haven't found #204 in a Oz newsagent, despite a visit to 2 earlier today.
Stephen
New Member
Posted 05 November 2020 - 18:12
I can understand why some people doubt the validity of our cover story in Jaguar Magazine #204, after all there have always been unfounded rumours that the 1948 London Motor Show XK120 exists.
However, the revelation was told to me by Richard Hassan many years ago, but we didn't finish our conversation so I didn't find out the full story. Now we have come back to it, and as a school boy Richard rode in this car on the first day it was road registered with his father Walter driving, and was dropped at school in it daily with his brothers while it was being developed. He was also at Silverstone in 1949 when the three XK120s raced and finished first and second.
You will not find our magazine in shops outside of Australia and New Zealand, but a single hard copy can be purchased, or you can get the story in digital at our site. It is in Australian shops as of November 5.
However, in short, the identity of the first car is quite clear when you know the differences to the two later prototypes. The first two were built and painted Bronze.
When it came to have them registered neither had chassis numbers, so were given those at that point because they were necessary then.
The Show car had been converted to LHD and painted white for the speed run at Jabbeke in Belgium, while the second car remained Bronze and RHD. Therefore, the RHD car got the number 660001, and the LHD one got 670001 even though it was the first one built and the show car. Both cars were registered on the same day. Ever since they have had mistaken identities, everyone assuming the first registered Bronze car, 660001, was the first one built. Not so. 670001 was sent to the USA in December 1949 for racing and publicity purposes with nobody releasing it was the first XK120.
I don't know who owns the car in the US now, which is why I couldn't run images of the car in 2020 for the 10 page story. I have tried to find where it is and have had Gary Bartlett in Indiana also looking for it with no success.
However, the unbroken trail can be seen in images of the car through to Walter Hill and beyond, so Richard and I can say without doubt it is the 1948 London Show prototype, the Jabbeke run car and also the winner of the 1949 race at Silverstone.
Richard Hassan is the one person alive who has known this car since it was created, and he also has his father's records.
Our website is www.jaguarmagazine.com if you want to read the story in detail.
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Member
Posted 05 November 2020 - 19:54
Unless I am getting very confused - which I am - the story is now that the first prototype might be in the USA but nobody knows where? That's a little way from the claim that the magazine has found it and can tell us where it is, if only we were to subscribe. Clickbait indeed.
Member
Posted 05 November 2020 - 23:24
Involvement to the story.
Jabbeke in 6/49 Motor Sport
cooper997 collection
20/8/49 Silverstone programme
cooper997 collection
Stephen
New Member
Posted 07 November 2020 - 01:46
I have published and edited Jaguar Magazine since 1984, and if some of you which to doubt me I can do nothing about that.
Can you find the owner of #670001? I can't and I didn't say I could in the magazine.
What else do you need me to say other than the 1948 London Show car was given the chassis number #670001 when it came time for registration.
I am not asking anyone to buy our magazine either - Les. Hughes
Member
Posted 07 November 2020 - 09:42
It all reads like a non story. There is no current evidence of this car existing.
Member
Posted 07 November 2020 - 12:20
Member
Posted 07 November 2020 - 12:42
Can you find the owner of #670001? I can't and I didn't say I could in the magazine.
Ahem... from your own website
That is not correct – it does live and is pristine!!!!! The owner does not even know this groundbreaking revelation yet. We outline the full story, and tell you where it is today.
Member
Posted 07 November 2020 - 22:34
Further quotes from their news section :
"We have been keeping quite while we worked on our incredible revelation that the very first precious XK120 built, has been found by us thanks to the assistance of Richard Hassan whose father developed its engine."
"In our next magazine, against all the odds, and remarkably, the Jaguar-impossible is explained –
THE London Motor Show first built XK120 has been found by our editor and Richard Hassan!!!!!
Richard’s father co-created the XK engine and engineered the new XK120. Richard was in the Jaguar pits at Silverstone for the car’s first race, and his father drove him in the first day it was on the road.
Even better, it survives unrestored and in pristine condition!!!!"
"Everything will be laid out in detail for our readers, sceptics and devotees in edition #204"
PS. A photograph from 1953, G Charles Rainville of Rhode Island owned it from 1952-85 : http://media.collect...1210/BHrvCh.jpg
The boy in the photo is his son, Paul. He's still about, not sure if Jaguar Magazine attempted to contact him?
Here's another photo with the boy standing in front of the car : http://media.collect...1210/FXnaUv.jpg
After the being sold in '85 it seems it was a part of Walter Hill's collection of Jaguars.
Sold by RM Auctions (since '15, Sotheby's) at Monterey in August 2005 for USD 440 000, described as "670001"
Here's an article from Supercar Nostalgia this September : https://supercarnost...-chassis-670001
A photo from 2005-08 when the car was seen at a classic car show : http://media.collect...0811/Zlwitg.jpg
Last known sighting is claimed to have been in 2013, one would think it should be possible to track down this car and confirm if it is 670001?
Edited by Myhinpaa, 11 November 2020 - 18:56.
New Member
Posted 11 November 2020 - 04:50
Please note in the photograph mentioned above (and used in the feature) the car is RHD and the vents at the front under the bumpers are not standard. If you find a pic of the winning XK120 (white #670001) at Silverstone you can seen the handmade vents are the same.
I really don't mind if people are cynical about our story, and certainly understand if they don't want to download or buy the printed magazine - I just want to correct history for the sake of the future.
If anyone can find the current owner of #670001 please tell me.
Les. Hughes
Member
Posted 11 November 2020 - 15:24
Please note in the photograph mentioned above (and used in the feature) the car is RHD and the vents at the front under the bumpers are not standard. If you find a pic of the winning XK120 (white #670001) at Silverstone you can seen the handmade vents are the same.
I really don't mind if people are cynical about our story, and certainly understand if they don't want to download or buy the printed magazine - I just want to correct history for the sake of the future.
If anyone can find the current owner of #670001 please tell me.
Les. Hughes
This appears somewhat at variance with the claims quoted above.
The phrase "has been found" can only have one meaning. It is slightly different from a photo of a car with distinctive vents.
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