59 replies to this topic

[Risil]

Following George Russell crashing out of potentially his first points finish during a late-race safety car period at Imola, there have been lots of lovely and somewhat eyebrow-raising expressions of support from elsewhere in F1. Paddy Lowe has compared him to Alain Prost, Romain Grosjean has compared him to Romain Grosjean, and best of all Toto Wolff has categorically recommended that everyone should do it.
 

"That is all part of the development process," said Wolff. "What makes Lewis and Valtteri so special, and before Nico, was the experience they gained.

"I think everybody needs to put a car in the wall behind the safety car. We've seen that from the most experienced ones, and making mistakes under pressure.

"And I think what George has done today, happened to the best ones.

"It feels awful for him right now, but it's going to sink in, be like a scar, and he's going to be a better driver in the future."

 

https://www.autospor...-crash-under-sc

 

Just when you think F1 is a moral wasteland filled with howling ghosts, you read a story like this that cheers you up.

 

Anyway, I'm sure we can fill in plenty of other examples of drivers crashing behind the safety car. When you stop and think about it, it's weirdly prevalent. Here are three.

 

Jenson Button, Italian GP 2000

Terminally damages his car after Michael Schumacher backs up the field. Avoids all collateral damage (he was a future world champion after all) and appears to have briefly overtaken the whole field.

 

Juan Pablo Montoya, Monaco GP 2004

Michael Schumacher slows suddenly behind the safety car (again) and this time Montoya goes for the gap on the inside like a parody of Suzuka 1989. This best thing about this one was the sheer confusion I remember feeling about what could possibly have happened when Michael emerged from the tunnel with one of the corners of his car missing.

 

Nigel Mansell, 1994 Indy 500

"Full Indycar" avant le lettre. Bigshot Nigel Mansell collides in the pitlane with Dennis Vitolo who with weird symmetry to Nigel's career had also remortgaged his house to be there. Nigel Mansell quickly leaps out and collapses on the grass, it turns out not because the car was on fire, as the commentators initially speculated, but because hot water was leaking from Vitolo's radiator into Mansell's cockpit. "Which feels like fire," as Sam Posey helpfully put it.

[SophieB]

There's this one!

 

Also Hamilton crashed (but still finished the race) behind the Safety Car in Hockenheim the other year while leading the race.

[FirstnameLastname]

Hamilton and Vettel...

https://youtu.be/iOI2It_W3No

Canada 2008 too.... Hamilton involved in pileup in the pitlane, though not directly behind the safety car

Edit: Sophie beat me to it!

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 03 November 2020 - 10:31.

[PlatenGlass]

I'm sure Grosjean's done it at least twice. Hungary rings a bell.

Edit - Hungary 2014 and Azerbaijan 2018 I think.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 03 November 2020 - 10:45.

[Marklar]

I think everybody needs to put a car in the wall behind the safety car.

This quote out of context is hilarious

Edited by Marklar, 03 November 2020 - 10:43.

[Ivanhoe]

Heidfeld at Brazil 2002 is also a classic

 

[SophieB]

I'm sure Grosjean's done it at least twice. Hungary rings a bell.

Edit - Hungary 2014 and Azerbaijan 2018 I think.

 

In trying to find the one where Marcus Ericsson crashed behind the SC in Monaco, I found Grosjean crashing behind the SC in Azerbaijan (and trying to blame Ericsson)

 

https://www.skysport...ans-crazy-crash

[TomNokoe]

 

And the infamous amateur video that cropped up a week after Japan 07

 

[Lights]

I found Grosjean crashing behind the SC in Azerbaijan (and trying to blame Ericsson)

 

https://www.skysport...ans-crazy-crash

 

That wasn't Grosjean, that was his race engineer.

[fed up]

Russell has just been unfortunate. He was recently placed high in the points - ahead of Vettel, and then fell away when the race restarted, which was perhaps because those drivers that were allowed to unlap themselves got an advantage in terms of tyre temps. That experience was playing on his mind, hence his effort to warm up the tyres behind the SC.

 

The boy is good enough for sure, because he manages to get himself in the points scoring positions on pure talent alone. His time will come.

[SophieB]

That wasn't Grosjean, that was his race engineer.

 

Fair enough - apologies to RG.

[SophieB]

Found it.

[krapmeister]

 

And the infamous amateur video that cropped up a week after Japan 07

 

 

The Youtube poster has it wrong - it was Fuji not Suzuka

Edited by krapmeister, 03 November 2020 - 10:58.

[ANF]

[Claudius]

What about drivers crashing on the formation lap? (Might be a different thread though)

There were som weird incidents in the past.

 

I remember DC doing it in Monza 95 (and N-ring? the same year). And MS tangling with Albers in China 05.

[alframsey]

It surprises me how often this has happened. Guess they're all bloody amateur from time to time.

[Baddoer]

I think in Hungary somebody crashed in the pitlane under SC. Sutil and someone else it was.

[SophieB]

What about drivers crashing on the formation lap? (Might be a different thread though)

Didn't Alonso nearly put the car in the barriers on the formation lap once during one of his Renault spells or am I getting confused.
 

 

It surprises me how often this has happened. Guess they're all bloody amateur from time to time.

 

I am with Toto on this - which of us can look in our hearts and truly say they have never crashed behind the safety car? Not many!

[Spillage]

Part of me feels like drivers should be penalised for doing it. The whole point is that you're going too slowly to have an accident. If you crash behind the SC you're obviously not being careful enough.

[Risil]

What about drivers crashing on the formation lap? (Might be a different thread though)

There were som weird incidents in the past.

 

I remember DC doing it in Monza 95 (and N-ring? the same year). And MS tangling with Albers in China 05.

 

Paddy Lowe reckons it counts (see his comments about Alain Prost in 1991) and who am I to doubt Paddy.

[jcbc3]

...- which of us can look in our hearts and truly say they have never crashed behind the safety car? Not many!

 

Dman, you got me there.

[Risil]

Part of me feels like drivers should be penalised for doing it. The whole point is that you're going too slowly to have an accident. If you crash behind the SC you're obviously not being careful enough.

 

Driving F1 cars in close formation at low speed is surprisingly difficult!

[SophieB]

Part of me feels like drivers should be penalised for doing it. The whole point is that you're going too slowly to have an accident. If you crash behind the SC you're obviously not being careful enough.

 

The counter argument I'd make is that (if you believe Hamilton and Verstappen etc) driving at SC is inherently kind of risky due to the colder tyres, less grip etc. Going slower makes it worse in some ways, not better.

 

Obviously not saying go ahead and blast past marshals on track here.

[Risil]

I am with Toto on this - which of us can look in our hearts and truly say they have never crashed behind the safety car? Not many!

 

I nearly rear-ended someone just outside Enstone the other day. They were turning right off a relatively straight bit of country road and while I was slowing down I wasn't prepared for them to come to a complete stop. First time I've heard my own tyres squeal in who knows how many years. I was also lost at the time, which meant my focus wasn't 100% where it should've been.

 

I'm not in the habit to comparing my own driving to F1 driving but I feel there's some similarity there. 

[JeePee]

What about drivers crashing on the formation lap? (Might be a different thread though)

There were som weird incidents in the past.

 

I remember DC doing it in Monza 95 (and N-ring? the same year). And MS tangling with Albers in China 05.

Officially the formation lap is the lap before the start, right? Because MS/Albers was on their way to the grid. A bit like Verstappen in Hungary this year.

[Spillage]

On a less serious note though, how about some incidents where the safety car crashed?

 

 

 

Vettel leading the field round to find another course vehicle on the circuit:

 

 

And the weirdest pace car incident of all:

 

[Risil]

There's no way you can see a video with the title "Crazy nut steals pace car" and not click it, right?

[SophieB]

By the way, Alan Baldwin, Reuters' F1 correspondent is well worth following. From his piece on Hamilton consoling Russell:
 

Australian Mark Webber, another former Williams driver, agreed it was a ‘brutal’ feeling but assured Russell he would, be better for it. “All part of the polishing and continuing to lift the bar,” he wrote.
Haas driver Romain Grosjean, who had a reputation for crashing and was once dubbed a ‘first lap nutcase’ by Webber, also commiserated.
“Man, I know the feeling. Will take some time to forget it, but what you do is mega. Keep pushing,” wrote the Frenchman.

 

[ensign14]

"Full Indycar" avant le lettre. Bigshot Nigel Mansell collides in the pitlane with Dennis Vitolo who with weird symmetry to Nigel's career had also remortgaged his house to be there. Nigel Mansell quickly leaps out and collapses on the grass, it turns out not because the car was on fire, as the commentators initially speculated, but because hot water was leaking from Vitolo's radiator into Mansell's cockpit. "Which feels like fire," as Sam Posey helpfully put it.

I see your Mansell and raise you two generations of Andretti.

 

 

Not quite safety car but akin to it.

[Retrofly]

Do spins count?

[Risil]

I see your Mansell and raise you two generations of Andretti.
 
[Detroit 1991]
 
Not quite safety car but akin to it.

I was on Youtube watching an old CART race on a road or street course from a few years earlier and the commentators were glowingly telling us how Indycar drivers were particularly skilled at driving at racing speed while there were recovery vehicles on track...

[Frood]

There's also this piece of brilliant driving:

 

 

Just absolute chaos everywhere.

Edited by Frood, 03 November 2020 - 11:41.

[NoForumForOldPole]

 

 

Always a good idea to have helicopter jet engine sharing space on track with Juan Pablo, Nascar! 

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 03 November 2020 - 12:06.

[FortiFord]

Didn't Alonso nearly put the car in the barriers on the formation lap once during one of his Renault spells or am I getting confused.
 

 

 

 

 

Yes he did, in Barcelona 08 i think. Montoya also spun on the formation lap in one of the races in 05 and 06. Ross Brawn found it hilarious. 

[FortiFord]

I think in Hungary somebody crashed in the pitlane under SC. Sutil and someone else it was.

 

Yes in 2010, he crashed with Kubica, though the fault lay entirely with the Renault lollipop guy. 

[ANF]

Does crashing because of zero visibility count?

[ensign14]

And then there's drivers crashing INTO the pace car...

 

Rutherford v Beechler, IRL (of course)

[Claudius]

Didn't Alonso nearly put the car in the barriers on the formation lap once during one of his Renault spells or am I getting confused.
 

 

 

Never heard of that. Where is Marklar? 

[Claudius]

Officially the formation lap is the lap before the start, right? Because MS/Albers was on their way to the grid. A bit like Verstappen in Hungary this year.

 

You are right, I got confused. Formation lap and getting to the grid are two different laps.

[Sterzo]

What about drivers crashing on the formation lap? (Might be a different thread though)

There were som weird incidents in the past.

 

I remember DC doing it in Monza 95 (and N-ring? the same year). And MS tangling with Albers in China 05.

Yes, out laps and formation laps before the race are both "neutralised" conditions and analagous to safety car laps. As well as those already mentioned,Prost, Coulthard and Schumacher, I would add Jim Clark, who spun off at Snetterton on the warm-up lap before the 1963 Lombank Trophy non-championship race. He was able to continue undamaged, but was denounced as useless by a fellow spectator.

[Ruusperi]

Is VSC safer? I haven't seen anyone spin under VSC. They should consider using it more often.

[Roadhouse]

Is VSC safer? I haven't seen anyone spin under VSC. They should consider using it more often.

 

Wasn't Hamilton's crash at Hockenheim 2019 under a VSC, barely missing Leclerc in the process?

[pitlanepalpatine]

I nearly rear-ended someone just outside Enstone the other day. They were turning right off a relatively straight bit of country road and while I was slowing down I wasn't prepared for them to come to a complete stop. First time I've heard my own tyres squeal in who knows how many years. I was also lost at the time, which meant my focus wasn't 100% where it should've been.

 

I'm not in the habit to comparing my own driving to F1 driving but I feel there's some similarity there. 

 

I ****ing h8 that with a passion, that and those guys running stop signs to cut out in front of you who then drive really slowly and nearly come to a stop.

[Ruusperi]

Wasn't Hamilton's crash at Hockenheim 2019 under a VSC, barely missing Leclerc in the process?

 

Seems it was under a normal SC. https://youtu.be/RYHQmBULhLc?t=166

[Risil]

I fucking h8 that with a passion, that and those guys running stop signs to cut out in front of you who then drive really slowly and nearly come to a stop.

 

To be fair the guy in front had to turn across oncoming traffic.

[P123]

 

 

Always a good idea to have helicopter jet engine sharing space on track with Juan Pablo, Nascar! 

Did the driveshaft not break on his car or something like that?  Was a technical failure at the worst possible moment!

 

As for drivers going off under SC, I recall JPM spinning and losing a place in Oz, DC going off from the lead in Oz again, and another infamous Oz one with Trulli going off and McLaren somehow being unaware that you don't need to give that spot back...

[Dmitriy_Guller]

It surprises me how often this has happened. Guess they're all bloody amateur from time to time.

It doesn’t surprise me, because the rules even today allow the drivers to get a way with completely nutty recklessness under the SC.  Given that this recklessness is often meant to gain an advantage, it’s not surprising that drivers would keep engaging in it.  

 

It was even worse 20 years ago, when Schumacher could just decide to stop in the middle of the straight suddenly, and everyone would blame Button for being caught out.  Thankfully stewards and pundits got smarter since then, but not that much smarter.

[Jvr]

How can this thread exist without a mention of Dan Ticktum overtaking 10 cars and crashing deliberately on Ricky Collard under SC?  

[Oho]

 

That's a veritable galore of royal screw ups, Schumacher and even far worse Alonso which I think was rather amazing did not lead to any repercussions....

Edited by Oho, 03 November 2020 - 14:08.

[TomNokoe]

Didn't Alonso nearly put the car in the barriers on the formation lap once during one of his Renault spells or am I getting confused.

Spain 2008

0m30s

 

Edited by TomNokoe, 03 November 2020 - 14:13.